Colorado B/S Thread

[DutchVDub]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

For a few I've known..a little too much beef actually. Big and strong is great to have, but at a point it starts to be a negative. Again, depends on they type of buggy you're going for. A 1tonxj style buggy, no difference there :lol:. Trying to shave some weight where you don't need it...yeah.

14bolt vs Sterling I highly doubt there is any real weight savings. They're both heavy ass pigs. I'm not knocking the 14 bolt at all either, I think its a great axle. However, the Sterling was readily available and offers more clearance with very similar strength.

As far as motor, I thought the Kubota was rated around 400lbs. dry, no accessories? I know a 5.3 comes in around 450-500ish. But, again the hp/lb. ratio is vastly different. Though, I take ALL weights with a grain of salt, because in reality they're all skewed, and I've yet to see any REAL data provided.

Your dimensions are smaller than the one I looked up, not as big as I thought. I've got a while before and engine swap ever becomes something. In reality I could see myself going with a newer model V6, since these days they're lighter, and have damn close the same hp/tq numbers as the base LS motors stock.

Though hell...the killer RedDot rigs run farkin' 6.2L's...soooo yeah.

400lbs, although that's with the massive flywheel and cast iron flywheel housing. Not to mention the huge pancake oil pan it has. All the weights I've seen for LS's are mid-500's for the cast iron block ones. Like you said though, online weights and dimensions are fairly fickle.

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Yeah the new 10.5 and market coming with them is nice. I learned to quit watching full throttle v8 guys and they parts lists a little bit ago because it’s just not me. Simple v6/v8 and just easy to run is where I’d like my next ‘big’ build to go. But who knows when that will be.

Yep, honestly, if I were to start from scratch today with a "realistic" budget:

- JHF chassis or Reddot style knock off
- F&R steer 14 bolts or Trail Gear 8's (I would like to think I'd go with his portals with the 8's, but $$$, just like Spidertrax)
- LS or something like a LV3
- 4L80e
- Atlas 4 speed

Light, nimble, with enough beef to be fine.

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

14bolt vs Sterling I highly doubt there is any real weight savings.

I'm just going by the fact that I've deadlifted both fully dressed, and the 14B was doable by myself...10.5...not as much without throwing out...something :laugh:

 

[in4aride]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I'm just going by the fact that I've deadlifted both fully dressed, and the 14B was doable by myself...10.5...not as much without throwing out...something :laugh:

Should try unloading a dressed 06 60 out of a Tacoma by yourself with no cherry picker. Almost died that day. Then had to reload them to get em to led. Wanted to cry. A lot. I’m a little guy. Can’t be doing that shit. :gee:

 

[in4aride]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Yep, honestly, if I were to start from scratch today with a "realistic" budget:

- JHF chassis or Reddot style knock off
- F&R steer 14 bolts or Trail Gear 8's (I would like to think I'd go with his portals with the 8's, but $$$, just like Spidertrax)
- LS or something like a LV3
- 4L80e
- Atlas 4 speed

Light, nimble, with enough beef to be fine.

Yeah for sure. The goat built rigs are cool. The rock lizards are ok if you want just gearing and no motor. Plenty of options anymore. But simple simple is where I like it. (There’s a go over here on the slope selling a chassis and rear axle for like 1500. Think it has skins too.

 

[time2getdirty]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Buggys are lame. High mileage Toyota xj (4runner) shit boxes are where it’s at.

 

[1-tonxj]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I thought about a full tube chassis, but when I look at in general what wheeling Colorado has to offer it's doable with what I got and for what's inside of a 2hr drive it's more than enough intact overkill for much of it , so it's hard to justify a tube chassis for the once a year trip to a trail that would really need it . At the moment obstacles like devil's hot tub would only deny me due to lack of power , so I think if I go any further with the hobby it would be a GM6.2 and 6l80 as that would make many more obstacles doable in the pig and when it gets boring time to sale it .

 

[SolarBell]

The Colorado BS thread

I’m waiting for someone to want to shave a 14B since I’m pretty certain my “new” milling machine could make short work of it.

 

[in4aride]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I thought about a full tube chassis, but when I look at in general what wheeling Colorado has to offer it's doable with what I got and for what's inside of a 2hr drive it's more than enough intact overkill for much of it , so it's hard to justify a tube chassis for the once a year trip to a trail that would really need it . At the moment obstacles like devil's hot tub would only deny me due to lack of power , so I think if I go any further with the hobby it would be a GM6.2 and 6l80 as that would make many more obstacles doable in the pig and when it gets boring time to sale it .

I agree and disagree.
A lot of folks run big tires and axles on trails that 35’s and built up stock shit can handle (albeit not necessarily easy).
On the flip side, visibility, and the ability to say **** it and run dumb lines without riding in a top heavy wonky rig is awesome. Ran in a few small buggies on this side of the hill and it’s such a different game.

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

^^^ Agreed fully

I'm basically just building an overly capable trail rig. I have no desire to compete with it at all. My XJ on 35's will do any trail within easy driving distance of me just the way it is. Now when I do travel there are trails that I want to do that I know it won't make, or at least not make without taking a lot of damage. Add to that the extra visibility of the chassis vs my full bodied XJ, the extra safety of a properly designed full tube chassis, and the extra comfort of a long travel link suspension. I do give up storage and creature comforts to an extent, but we ride motorcycles cross country so we're fairly used to being out in the elements with little room to carry things. It'll be skinned like the CJ5 its being built "out of" and still have a plate on it so that I can connect trails without loading it back onto the trailer.

With a mildly powerful engine I shouldn't need to carry much in the way of tools/spares on the rig. Neither that little Kubota or a stock mustang 302 are going to be able to hurt built 1 ton axles. That NP205 will survive a nuclear explosion too. Don't get my wrong, I am aware that s*** happens. I've seen a chromo D60 stub snap with a guy running a stock 5.3 LS just barely giving it throttle. So spares will be on the trailer.

The advantage the diesel has is that it needs almost nothing to run. Its fully mechanical injection with a mechanical shut off. I could jump the starter using my truck and theoretically not even have a battery or a single wire on the chassis. It needs no electric fuel pump, no ecm, nothing of the sort. It should behave like a really torquey 4.0L. My XJ almost never goes over 3000rpm when wheeling it unless I'm just bombing along in 4 low. I'll fully admit its oddball and very well might not perform how I want it to, but for me its worth a shot. We have the same engine in our Bobcat at work and in the 11 years I've worked there we haven't had to do a single thing to that engine other than change the oil. Same thing with the bigger version Kubota in our tug.

Really what I'm doing with this thing is building a linked CJ5. But instead of doing a bunch of sheet metal work to restore a wrecked tub and then have to make a new chassis for it I am starting with a tube chassis and adding some sheet metal to it so it resembles the CJ5 I'm starting with. Since CJ jeeps are basically flat sided boxes with a grill, hood, and tail gate its really not far off.

 

[1-tonxj]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I agree and disagree.
A lot of folks run big tires and axles on trails that 35’s and built up stock shit can handle (albeit not necessarily easy).
On the flip side, visibility, and the ability to say **** it and run dumb lines without riding in a top heavy wonky rig is awesome. Ran in a few small buggies on this side of the hill and it’s such a different game.

What I'm saying is... for me... The average wheeling trip inside of my usual time frame of out and back in one day pretty much limits me to...Penrose , Carnage , Chinamans, holycross, And Spring creek . Of all these penrose and carnage are the most difficult and still my xj currently is more than adequate for those two Holy cross has one real obstacle , which is not going to be difficult for me at this point . I agree if your usual trail runs give access to terrain that really utilizes a buggy then it's the tool for the job , but ... for me... at this point it's not ...lol... in fact my xj is going to need the extreme lines on the trails I listed to be challenged ...lol... a buggy on them would be retardedly boring .

 

[in4aride]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Yeah for sure. It’s funny how looking back at penrose now is kind of a giggle compared to some stuff that’s just down the road. Still very full body doable but still very entertaining in a buggy. I agree, it’s all about options. I can be in Moab in same
Time it takes to get to BV. So junction, gypsum, Montrose, Moab, and the in betweens are my options.

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I thought about a full tube chassis, but when I look at in general what wheeling Colorado has to offer it's doable with what I got and for what's inside of a 2hr drive it's more than enough intact overkill for much of it , so it's hard to justify a tube chassis for the once a year trip to a trail that would really need it . At the moment obstacles like devil's hot tub would only deny me due to lack of power , so I think if I go any further with the hobby it would be a GM6.2 and 6l80 as that would make many more obstacles doable in the pig and when it gets boring time to sale it .

The thing you'll find is, if/when you venture more, you're going to find the size/weight of your rig is going to hold you back immensely. I'm not even talking THAT far...Montrose, Gypsum, GJ, Rangely, etc.

Hell, even my buggy is wider than I'd like it to be body wise if I were doing it again.

You've run into the problem now that you keep needing to beef, because of your beef. When you don't weigh nearly as much, you don't need the same HP, the same overkill on brackets, links, etc.

Most would be rather surprised to see how "unbeefy" many of the top rigs are in comparison to things in general.

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I’m waiting for someone to want to shave a 14B since I’m pretty certain my “new” milling machine could make short work of it.

I wish :laugh:

I'd REALLY like to get my 14b on and end mill one day. It could use a facing after the shave.

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Yeah for sure. It’s funny how looking back at penrose now is kind of a giggle compared to some stuff that’s just down the road. Still very full body doable but still very entertaining in a buggy. I agree, it’s all about options. I can be in Moab in same
Time it takes to get to BV. So junction, gypsum, Montrose, Moab, and the in betweens are my options.

Yeah, Montrose rock with being able to do that.

Kyle, our officiant (who I'm sure you remember) and his family are moving to Montrose in the next month or so.

If we weren't tied down here, and jobs for us were much more...there...I'd entertain it as well.

 

[in4aride]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

The thing you'll find is, if/when you venture more, you're going to find the size/weight of your rig is going to hold you back immensely. I'm not even talking THAT far...Montrose, Gypsum, GJ, Rangely, etc.

Hell, even my buggy is wider than I'd like it to be body wise if I were doing it again.

You've run into the problem now that you keep needing to beef, because of your beef. When you don't weigh nearly as much, you don't need the same HP, the same overkill on brackets, links, etc.

Most would be rather surprised to see how "unbeefy" many of the top rigs are in comparison to things in general.

I see so many gm v6 atlas and mostly stock tons on sticky 40’s driving very dumb shit at 103-110” wb that there’s no way I’d have nosed the xj up to. Hell the Tj feels big over here :roflmao:

 

[in4aride]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Yeah, Montrose rock with being able to do that.

Kyle, our officiant (who I'm sure you remember) and his family are moving to Montrose in the next month or so.

If we weren't tied down here, and jobs for us were much more...there...I'd entertain it as well.

Oh right on! Do they know folks out here or a new move? Be sure to pass my info on if they need anything.

 

[1-tonxj]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

The thing you'll find is, if/when you venture more, you're going to find the size/weight of your rig is going to hold you back immensely. I'm not even talking THAT far...Montrose, Gypsum, GJ, Rangely, etc.

Hell, even my buggy is wider than I'd like it to be body wise if I were doing it again.

You've run into the problem now that you keep needing to beef, because of your beef. When you don't weigh nearly as much, you don't need the same HP, the same overkill on brackets, links, etc.

Most would be rather surprised to see how "unbeefy" many of the top rigs are in comparison to things in general.

So far to date the only trail failure I've had was welds on a link bridge that I didn't weld . I've actually had some very minimal parts hold up for years... 10mm 8.8 upper front control bolts , 1310 drive shafts made in my driveway , stock unmodified ford 60 knuckles with 40s , modified by me Ford knuckles on 44s and 42s which never failed they just got replaced with crane knuckles . The parts upgrades were not done for it to survive it has held up well to 9 rated runs without any real issue , however I wanted better parts in certain places so it can be beat on harder . You have actually have had more parts come off the buggy than the pig has from sheared Reid knuckles to failed 3 link uppers.

 

[1-tonxj]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

It's really not that hard to cutoff everything down to the subframe on the pig and cut off floor and frame from behind the driver seats and simply put back some tube and a very narrowed body line with the rear only serving to hang the struts ... I figure when I get bored with full body and it's been rolled I can juggy it pretty easily , but I don't see that being the case for a couple years .

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

You have actually have had more parts come off the buggy than the pig has from sheared Reid knuckles to failed 3 link uppers.

Yes, but mine has also wheeled a bit more

Carnage and Indy are now what I would consider mild. Boulder Canyon and stuff like it is now what I would consider "hard".

If you don't much get further than Indy and Carnage, then yeah, your rig is just fine.

But get into the more gnarly stuff, and there's even trails I wouldn't nose up to in my buggy, since rear steer and a bit more light/nimble are needed.