Coil Spacer's/Shackle questions/Winching on a budget

[buschwhaked]

So I'm thinking about installing this: http://rustysoffroad.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=rustys&Product_Code=RK-BB40-XJ&Category_Code=sus_xj_kit

The issue is not the kit (yeah, Rusty's blah blah :flame: ), but I do have some questions.

1) I have an SYE, however, with this cause any further brain melting vibrations? Will I need to resize my drive shaft?

2) What's the easiest way to do this? I'll be using the lift bay at Carson.

On a side note, lately the wife has been getting jealous of the jeep :gonnablow but Sunday's wheeling gave me an oppurtunity to explain to her a lot about Jeeps and why I want to get certain things. Kinda funny, went like this: Me, "The reason I can't get over this obstacle is because I don't have lockers." Her, "What are lockers." Me, "Well, lockers are...techno jargon." Her, "Oh OK, but can you get a winch first?" Me, "F*ck yeah."

So, I'm wanting to get set up for about $5-600 total (winch, mount, the whole nine yards). Here are the options I'm considering for mounting:

1) Install front tow hitch and mount using that.

2) Attempt to make my own while lacking the proper tools and knowledge base. (I'm always eager to learn though )

This is the winch I'm looking at: http://www.4wd.com/productdetails.aspx?jeep-sid=1041&plID=10130&partID=40271

Opine and postulate please.

 

[dabeersboys]

If you can find some one. which, I'm sure with some of these bad ass fab guys on here
there is this:
http://www.ironscorpion.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=9
Looks pretty Sweet! And I don't think you can beat the price. Unless your patient. I got both winch bumpers I have on the 2 XJs for 100 bucks. But both are winchless
I don't know anything about that winch. I'm actually kinda looking my self. Let me know what you go with.
Matt

 

[YELLAHEEP]

I'm assuming you're going from stock to a 2" budget boost type of lift right?

You already have an SYE installed? Or just have one ready to be? Unless you're going above 3.5" lift, you don't/shouldn't need the SYE for vibes.

As for installing the coil spacers and shackle kit, the shackles are easy. Since you'll have a lift, get the XJ situated on the lift but still on the ground. Remove the shackle bolts, raise the XJ until the leaf packs pull away from the stock shackles far enough to remove them and install the longer ones, then drop the lift and have someone guide the leaf packs into the shackles as it comes down. Replace bolts and yer dun.

Coil spacers are a whole different animal. You'll need to disconnect a bunch of parts: Again, using the lift situated, and only unloading the suspension a little, but not with the tires off the ground, begin by unbolting the sway bar links, lower shock bolts, lower track bar bolt (at the axle end), the coil spring keepers, and the steering tie rod end at the steering box pitman arm. Then unbolt the brake line brackets from the inner fender well so that the hard line and rubber line can move freely. Lift the XJ enough to allow the axle to droop down until the coils unseat from the upper bushing/cushion. Then raise it enough to remove the coil springs. Remove the factory bushing at the top, install the Rusty's coil spacers (and if you wanted a hair more lift, you can re-install the bushings below the coil spacers. Then reverse the process. When bolting the brake line brackets back, I suggest that you straighten the bends in the hard line and drill/bolt the bracket lower so that you get all the benefit of axle travel without tugging on the brake lines. Another tip for flexier front axle is to cut away the top lip/edge of both lower control arm brackets where the LCA's would touch them at max down travel. Same with the lower track bar bracket on the axle end - trim about 1/2" of the upper lip that would contact the TB at max down travel - you'll appreciate the results.

You definitely DO NOT want to go with a front hitch mount designed to maintain the factory bumper and lower air dam. You'll smack that damn thing on every obstacle you attempt - it drastically reduces your approach angle and you don't have much even with a 2" BB.

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:

If you're looking to get the most out of a removeable winch, save up for a bumper that has the receiver built in.

 

[buschwhaked]

Hey thanks Yella, but I'm already running a 3" lift w/SYE (see signature). The SYE driveshaft is significantly shorter than stock, thats why I'm wondering if I will need a longer one. I'm looking to get to about 4.5" of lift.

As for the front tow hitch mount, the reason I ask is because I've already got an Olympic front bumper. Will I still run into the same problems? Here's a pic of my eeP:

 

[dabeersboys]

Does the procomp kit have the control arms and track bar?
There is a significant difference between 3.5 and 4.5
You have to get different control arms, extened break lines. different trackbar.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

What he said.

Stock control arms and track bar are only good for a limited amount of lift. Remember that when you lift an XJ, you need to try to keep the angles of your suspension components close to stock in order to preserve the ability to do correct alignment and so that the axle has the ability travel both up and down in an arc. When you do nothing but add parts to lift it, you're basically forcing the stock suspension components to function as if the XJ is in constant max down travel. 4.5" or more lift on stock parts keeps the front axle rotated forward (bad caster angle) and physically positioned farther back (front and rear tires/wheels are closer together than at stock specs) This means that the coil springs will be canted backward and will likely contact the bump stops causing binding and noise.

You'll also have a hard time with death wobble and bump steer maxing out your stock components with more than 3.5" lift.

 

[buschwhaked]

It's got new LCA's and brake lines but not a track bar.

Side note: My has felt loose since I got the lift. Now w/the LTB's I'm hurting. Could that have something to do w/needing a new trackbar?

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Yeah, but Pro Comp lift LCA's only have about 3/4" length difference over stock..... without being able to adjust their length for the added lift, you'd still possibly run into issues. Not as bad as stock LCA's but still......

I'm sure there's lots of guys out there using a Pro Comp 3" kit and have added lift..... They'll say it works, but I doubt they've driven a properly lifted rig to compare the ride/handling to.....

You could always try it, but I think you'll create more issues by doing so. :dunno:

If your steering/handling is feeling loose, be sure to check the track bar ends for wear/movement and also the track bar upper bracket bolts. Stock track bars have a tendancy to work themselves loose. Easiest way is to put one front tire shoulder up against a straight curb and have someone turn the steering wheel side to side, then watch for movement of the TB bushing and ball joint upper end. You'll see loose TB bracket movement here as well.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

About the tow/receiver winch mount idea....... I'm not sure what you're asking about when you say "I've already got an Olympic bumper". That bumper will make absolutely no difference in how a front receiver (like the one I posted a pic of) will mount. It mounts to the unibody not the stock bumper. The receiver I posted when mounted, would actually be lower than the D-ring mounts you have currently.

What you'd need is someone to cut into your Olympic bumper and weld in a receiver tube. But you'd also need to have stronger brackets added so it can handle the pull of a winch without ripping itself from the stock bumper mounts.

BTW, after re-reading your original post...... you need to ditch all these other modification ideas (lockers, winch, lift) and go invest in a solid set of rock sliders! You're gonna end up smacking yours and hating life when your door doesn't want to close correctly......

 

[planefixer]

I've heard quite a bit of good, and nothing bad about the Smittybuilt winches.

 

[aparke4]

i have the smittybilt winch - pulls slower than my old warn but has held up great so far... i dissassmbled the case via the write up on pirate and greased everything nice and good with electric grease... the led remote is kinda cool too

 

[YELLAHEEP]

i have the smittybilt winch - pulls slower than my old warn but has held up great so far... i dissassmbled the case via the write up on pirate and greased everything nice and good with electric grease... the led remote is kinda cool too

Link? I'd like to see that writeup.

 

[buschwhaked]

Yeah, the only reason I brought up the Olympic bumpers is because you mentioned the front air dam on the stock bumper and I was having a hard time visualizing just how low a front hitch would be.

And I think you're right about the rock rails as well. I've just been having some serious inchitis lately. Still want the winch though.

New plan:
-get winch set up
-get rock rails
-piece by piece upgrade the steering and LCA's
-lift higher
-lockers

New questions:

-Other than hitch and bumper, any other way to get a hitch mounted?
-Where's a reasonably priced/reasonable quality place to get new steering setup?
-What length LCA's should I get? Who do you recommend?

My goal height right now is roughly 4.5" until I can take it off the road altogether which won't be for a while.

Yellaheep and everyone else, thanks for all the advice. I wish I would have found :: before I stupidly paid 4WD parts for a lift and SYE. :gag:

 

[Frank Z]

Buy my bumper.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

You still have that bumper 'eh Frank?

Buschwaked, it's a nice litte homebrew bumper and would get you all the features you're needing.......






(Send him a PM Frank...... He's weak with inchitis and the mod bug..... make him an offer he can't refuse so he'll quit with all the questions........ :shhh

 

[YELLAHEEP]

New questions:

-Other than hitch and bumper, any other way to get a hitch mounted?
-Where's a reasonably priced/reasonable quality place to get new steering setup?
-What length LCA's should I get? Who do you recommend?

My goal height right now is roughly 4.5" until I can take it off the road altogether which won't be for a while.

In the order asked:

-Nope, not without fabrication and reinforcement
-Lots of threads on this subject. Searching will find you lots of good info, but if you're looking for easily replaced parts from parts stores, getting the V8 ZJ steering components is always a decent upgrade for lifts under 4". Otherwise, you can go simple by having some DOM tube made into a drag link and tie rod and drill out the pitman arm and knuckles to accept 5/8" bolts and use heim joints at the ends. Look at some of Planefixer's posts about steering - several of the 'Springs guys have been using that same setup up to 37" tires with no issues.
-RE makes great adjustable LCA's that will work with all lift sizes. If you go up to 4.5", you should seriously consider RE drop brackets/braces. Keep an eye on CL for them, they come up every once in a while, also keep looking at the for sale threads on Colorado4x4.org.

 

[TomMcD]

Did you take the styrofoam ball bearings out of the grease too aparke4? :laugh:


The link to the thread is http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=590833 goes on for 14 pages and almost universally it's been a positive reviews on the first generation of these.

They have a totally new model out (with the same name) now that uses a series wound motor instead of the permanent magnet motor. It is reported to be almost identical to the Warn M8000 in size, looks and performance for 1/2 the price. One place they seem to save money is the wire rope that comes on these is fiber core, not solid steel core so is not going to be as strong. A lot of folks are buying the Amsteel Blue and calling it good.

All reports on the customer service have been first rate too, all in all looks like it'll be on my short list once I get settled in in Broomfield.

--Tom

 

[buschwhaked]

One more NOOB question, do I need to replace both the lower and upper CA's or just the lowers?

 

[TomMcD]

Most folks do aftermarket LCA's at 4.5" and call it good. I did that on my MJ with no problems, and it looks like thats the set up on my new (to me) XJ. Or you could just give in now and go long.

--Tom

 

[buschwhaked]

First, thanks to everyone for the advice. It was really helpful. Second, thank you to Frank for the winch bumper and install. My back was killing me, you're the man.

Also, I just ordered my winch, the one listed at the beginning of this thread and got it for $289 shipped! I know everyones feeling about 4WD parts, but thats who I got it through and they were the cheapest.

And last but not least, there is a 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer for sale on FT Carson. It looks in great condition. If someone is interested let me know and I'll snap some pics.