sherman08
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Belfair WA
Don't look now but it seems you have uh, some custom paint, good detail on the uh, phallic symbols. Now i better understand "hillbilly"
Cheap Cherokee (hillbilly engineering
- Thread starter lorax81
- Start date
Muddy Beast
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- WA
The overflow bottle is the problem with the closed system, get a Macs Radiators Aluminum overflow bottle and you'll be golden. The closed system is generally viewed as a better cooling system then an open system in modern day, it's just that Jeep screwed it up by using plastic overflow bottles that become pretty crummy over time and tend to fail. I can wheel all day long at 190-195 while all of the open system guys run 210, and this is a pretty common story when comparing the two systems (when both work properly).
There's a reason why so many of today's cars still run closed cooling systems.
~Scott
mud1059
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Graham/Kapowsin, WA
Uh, this is wrong on so many levels. You're the first person to think closed systems are better. Ever. People replace the plastic bottle because they crack and become useless. I've never heard of fixing overheating by swapping bottles. That just defies logic. Lastly, they run at 210 because that's the thermostat they run.
To be fair, I did do something wrong at NWF08. If a vehicle is running a trail and overheating, common sense tells me the cooling system cant keep up with a running rig. Shut the rig down, top it off, and check for air in the system. Apparently everyone else thought the right thing to do was run it while overheating. I may know nothing.
To be fair, I did do something wrong at NWF08. If a vehicle is running a trail and overheating, common sense tells me the cooling system cant keep up with a running rig. Shut the rig down, top it off, and check for air in the system. Apparently everyone else thought the right thing to do was run it while overheating. I may know nothing.
lorax81
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- St. Helens Orrygun
never just shut an engine off if it is over heating. let it idle and circulate the coolant. esspecially on a closed system it allows water to stay in one place and be boiled causing mass pressure and probably resulting in blowing a hose or your bottle. at least with the engine running the water is still being circulated throug the motor and rad. you can still ad water with it running if it is low.
and yes the custom hood scribbles were from one of my "helpers" if you look closely it says "pussy XXXX face" in hyroscribliture.
but as far as the coolant issue i believe that a new good closed system is supperior. but mine is not new and it was deffinitly over heating. prior to the run it got all new coolant and a bottle of napa kool. All i could do was one hillclimb or 3 laps around the track before i was over heating and had to let it sit idleing too cool.
i need to get real temp gauges for all my vitals
On a more positive note i must have done somting right cause i got a ford 9 inch with 4.11 (same as my D44) given to me. SWET
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XJLaredo
Member# 1562
- Location
- Lacey, Wa.
I can say I've never seen anyone go muddin with tire chains on!
MaxxXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Bakersfield CA
where do i find one of those 210 thermostats? biggest one i could find in vatozone was a 195 =/
IXNAYXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Wherever the next race is.
Earlier you say you have a fairly new 3 core radiator...what is "not new" in your closed loop system that you think is causing it to over heat?
Also, I have to agree with Paul; you're not going to find many fans of the closed loop system anywhere, new bottle or not. I converted my '89s closed system to open and ran 600 miles at WOT and it never got hot at all, just running water and water wetter.
-----Matt-----
lorax81
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- St. Helens Orrygun
I must say its a trend thats catching on at this event I say 3 rigs including mine that had chains. It is night and day difference between bald wildcats and bald wildcats with chains on. besides its the only way i can pass things like this on the circle track.
lorax81
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- St. Helens Orrygun
the heater core is the only thing that hasn't been replaced. I don't think that would cause it to over heat. I have a open system rad I can swap in and convert the system over. next question does anyone have a link for a good puller fan for the front of the rad. and will I need to upgrade my alt for running 3 more fans.
Muddy Beast
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- WA
Search the topic, you'll find it's a love hate, 50/50 deal. Many reputable posters on this site (5-90 comes to mind) find the closed system a good system when working properly. The problem is many people with closed systems don't take the time to fix the problems 20 year old cars acquire. I think 75% of the 10 cars in my driveway (well, kinda in my driveway) are closed system and not one have over heated (including my new rig, after I rebuilt the coolant system properly).
There's no doubt, the open system for the stock Cherokees is a no brainer easy to maintain system. However, the closed system when equipped properly is more efficient, IMO. With that said, I'd have no complaints running either system at any point in time. I bought a car with a closed system, I replaced everything in that system over time, and now it runs so well I have a hard time wanting to change anything.
Plus as was said earlier, NEVER shut an engine off when it's over heating. Doing that will prevent the water from flowing threw the engine and will just cause more heat to build, instead you should catch it before it gets too hot (if possible) and pull to a level surface, crank the heat on in the car (to allow the hot air to cool down with the fan for that), make sure your fans are all on, and wait. This is all assuming of course you aren't puking fluid everywhere due to failure.
Then again, I'm just an 18 year old kid on his second rig in 1.5 years (4th car in 3 years). What do I know?
~Scott
P.S. I thought most thermostats were 190 in the XJ, because it's set to OPEN at 190 degrees, but the engine is likely going to climb a little past that. Oh and don't be so quick to judge. You've never heard of people replacing the bottle fixing over heating because you obviously haven't listened. The bottle is the main problem, if it leaks, you WILL overheat. Period.
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IXNAYXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Wherever the next race is.
3 fans? Why? If everything else is working, you should only need the standard mechanical fan and the aux IF it starts getting warm.
Also, all I did to mine was add a T fitting with a radiator cap and pulled out the pressure bottle. Put an overflow bottle there and called it good; like I said, it ran flawlessly for over 600 miles at wide open throttle.
-----Matt-----
lorax81
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- St. Helens Orrygun
because the one mechanical fan isn't moving enough air to keep things cool.
you say you were running wot what was your ground speed. I think that part of my problem was I was running wide open but it was so soupy that i was only moving about 10-15 mph not enough speed to push air though the rad. Once i left the mud run and was going home and actually had some speed it stopped overheating and ran fine. it was when i was hammering down on the skinny pedal and not moving very fast when i overheated.
so should i get rid of my closed rad and put my open rad in and delete that stupid bottle. as well as add an aux fan.
lorax81
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- St. Helens Orrygun
when you say all parts working properly there is only 5 main parts to your coolant system, rad, heater core, water pump, overflow, and fans. my fan is mechanical and working whenever the rig is on the rad is fairly new. new water pump, and i know nothing about the heater core except it puts out some heat but only out of the defrost.
and as far as the bottle i blow my bottles because it overheats and causes mass pressure thus cracking the crappy old bottle. I should be able to run without using my heater to keep things cool. I remember in years past having to run my heater in the dead of summer to keep things cool.
ps anyone looking for a fullsize 8.8 i got one that i am not going to use now that i have a 9 inch with matching gears to my 44
2xtreme
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kayak Pt, WA
There is nothing wrong with either system.
Both will do there job fine as long as the system is working as designed and all the parts are in good condition.
The MOST common issues I see on either system that give people issues are these.
1. Mechanical fan shroud missing. A fan without a shroud is nearly useless, you need a fan shroud for ALL fans.
2. Electrical fan, this should be available to suplement the mechanical fan and should be working when the engine get's hot, it also should have a fan shroud.
3. Mechanical fan clutch. There is a clutch in the mechanical fan and it can wear out over time, just because the fan is going around doesn't mean that it is working properly. Replace the fan clutch or look up how to "lock up" your current clutch or stiffen it to make sure this isn't your issue.
4. Clean 50/50 water/coolant. Make sure the system is clean and mix is correct. The correct amount of each product is vital to a good system.
5. The platic coolant bottle is crap, they crack, loose pressure ALL of the time, replace it with a decent aluminum one if you are going to stick with the original system. If you are going to switch to the newer system then any overflow bottle should work fine since it won't be under pressure.
Michael
Both will do there job fine as long as the system is working as designed and all the parts are in good condition.
The MOST common issues I see on either system that give people issues are these.
1. Mechanical fan shroud missing. A fan without a shroud is nearly useless, you need a fan shroud for ALL fans.
2. Electrical fan, this should be available to suplement the mechanical fan and should be working when the engine get's hot, it also should have a fan shroud.
3. Mechanical fan clutch. There is a clutch in the mechanical fan and it can wear out over time, just because the fan is going around doesn't mean that it is working properly. Replace the fan clutch or look up how to "lock up" your current clutch or stiffen it to make sure this isn't your issue.
4. Clean 50/50 water/coolant. Make sure the system is clean and mix is correct. The correct amount of each product is vital to a good system.
5. The platic coolant bottle is crap, they crack, loose pressure ALL of the time, replace it with a decent aluminum one if you are going to stick with the original system. If you are going to switch to the newer system then any overflow bottle should work fine since it won't be under pressure.
Michael
lorax81
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- St. Helens Orrygun
#3 is most likely the main culprit. That fan/ fan clutch has around 400k on it guess it might be time to replace it. I flushed the motor out as best i could before i put it in, but i guess nothing rattles the gookenpuky loose like mashing around the circle track at WOT.
On an even more positive note the guy that gave me the 9" is also letting me have the matching hp44. This hp44 is missing its rotors knuckles and axle shafts, but this does not have those stupid forged wedge blocks. Infact it is leaf sprung so there is even less i have to cut off with the plasma. so the plan is to strip the forged hp44 and sell the housing to my buddy that has a 78 bronco with those stupid wedges.
lorax81
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- St. Helens Orrygun
So i got my axles out from under that old ford yesterday and plan on cleaning them up. I have looked in both the advanced fab and mod tech sections no luck. If anyone knows of a thread that explains the process of setting up fullsize hp44 and 9" axles for a cherokee that would be awsome.
I also need some info on long arms. I dont have lots of money so I plan on building myself some knock off claytons (square tube) and crossmember. I also can't seem to locate this in any forums. I can find all kinds of stuff related to key words but nothing that actually explains how to mock up a long arm kit.
will post pics of the axles tonite after i get done cleaning them up
J
I also need some info on long arms. I dont have lots of money so I plan on building myself some knock off claytons (square tube) and crossmember. I also can't seem to locate this in any forums. I can find all kinds of stuff related to key words but nothing that actually explains how to mock up a long arm kit.
will post pics of the axles tonite after i get done cleaning them up
J
Ba-Riedo
has frame envy
- Location
- redmond/bellingham, wa
Search some old XJ_Ranger posts, he had that setup in his XJishlikesortatruckbuggiething for a while.
-Alex
-Alex
88xjlover
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Marysville, WA
I read through the whole thread and I think the overheating issue (if not a leaky bottle) may be the fact that you aren't running an electric fan. You said was overheating when in low on hill climbs. That's when my 88 use to get hot. I just straight wired the aux fan to the battery and cooled right off. (that was just a trail fix).
If the clutch was stuck it would still spin the fan. Fan clutches slow down the spin of the fan at high RPM's to allow air through the radiator at higher speeds.
Just some ideas in case a new bottle doesn't do it.
If the clutch was stuck it would still spin the fan. Fan clutches slow down the spin of the fan at high RPM's to allow air through the radiator at higher speeds.
Just some ideas in case a new bottle doesn't do it.
2xtreme
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kayak Pt, WA
The Electric fan should ONLY come on when the vehicle gets too warm from extra stress (WOT, long climbs, towing, etc). The vehicle should definetly get one, but it doesn't sound like this IS THE issue for overheating.
fan clutches can fail in several different ways and usually over time the spring gets weak which means it won't draw as much air at idle (or any other time) which can have a significant impact on cooling of the system throughout the RPM range.
Michael
fubar XJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Bothell, WA
The fan clutch is one that many people don't think about. If there's evidence of fluid leakage/spray on the aft side around the bearing area, replace it.
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