Changing trans fluid and filter?????

[Yucca-Man]

Funny - those of you that drain and fill your trannies with Chrysler fluid, thinking it's a ChryCo tranny never wondered what the markings on the drain plug mean?

Could it be...Dexron??

Yup - it is. Use D-III on your refills, and don't follow the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy unless you like swapping out burned trannies at the most inopportune time.

 

[87manche]

I think the problem people have with killing trans after a flush is this:
They are often changing the fluid for the first time, and it's long overdue. They change the fluid and the new fluid loosens all the crap in the trans. Some of this may even be on the clutch packs and may be what's keeping them together. After the fluid cleans up the trans the clutch packs slip, or the crap gets stuck in the fluid passages.
Do it regularly and it should be fine.
Also, are you sure ATF-# is what you've been using. I always thought Dexron was the proper ATF fluid.

 

[falcon556]

Regular XJ, NOT the Grand.

I went directly to the dealer and that is what they gave me at 30K, 60K, & 90K. At 90K I got the last of the ATF+3 from the dealer I normally buy it from. ATF+3 is no longer available and ATF+4 now replaces it. The mechanic I spoke to at the dealer said to stick with the Mopar stuff and never buy it at a place like Walmart.

I will check my manual but I don't remember anything about Dexron. If I was to get Dexron, I would not even know where to buy something like this other than Napa. I don't trust buying tranny fluid from Walmart or Autozone.

If it does say Dexron in the manual I think it is a little late to worry about it now. It has been running for over 100,000 miles with the ATF+3 mixed with what may have been Dexron to start. I don't know if it is possible to go back with out pulling the pan and filter.

If you can't trust the dealer, who can you trust?
I would read the owners manual and if it says DEXRON III, I'd go to the dealer and ask him to show me where he got the information. In writing.
Not his personal prefference or opinion.
If he cannot produce a Chrysler document authorizing the use of ATF+ I would demand that he flushes it with the proper fluid.

 

[mdicanio]

I checked the manual and it definitely says Dexron. My BIG mistake! ATF+3 must not be that horrible since I have been running a mix of if it and Dexron for 100K. So what should I do? I really don't want to have a shop or the dealer flush it. Let me know your recommendations. Thanks. :sad1:

 

[kennzz05]

i got a power flush from one of those quicky joints and i have almost 300.000 miles no problems so far that was about 10.000 miles ago

 

[RandyD71]

Be sure to use the right type of transmission fluid. Dex/Merc will work in a pinch, but you really should be using ATF +3 in your AW4 as that is what is called for. We have a trans flush machine at work and it doesn't use any solvent. It drains the pan throught the dipstick first. Then it refills it. Then you start the vehicle and it removes 1 quart followed by adding a quart until a prescribed number of quarts is reached. Works beautifully. You can stop in between the initial drain and refill to drop the pan and change the filter if you like. No mess from the pan and you only need to add about 1 quart to correct the loss from droping the pan and filter.

 

[Yucca-Man]

Be sure to use the right type of transmission fluid. Dex/Merc will work in a pinch, but you really should be using ATF +3 in your AW4 as that is what is called for.

Where the FAWK do you get that info? More importantly, you seem to come off as though you work at a dealer, so please do us the favor of telling us where that is...so we can stay away.

 

[falcon556]

I checked the manual and it definitely says Dexron. My BIG mistake! ATF+3 must not be that horrible since I have been running a mix of if it and Dexron for 100K. So what should I do? I really don't want to have a shop or the dealer flush it. Let me know your recommendations. Thanks. :sad1:

Don't be so hard on yourself, the dealer has resourses such as access to company service bulletins and is supposed to know better than the rest of us.
I'd confront him, you spent a lot of money on service, don't let be wasted.
Following are two service bulletins regarding ATF+4.

2100404 - AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID USAGE ATF+4®
Date: 03/16/04 (supersedes 2100601 dated 6/29/01)
Model year(s): 1999-2004
Description: Information pertaining to automatic transmission fluid usage
ATF+4®.
Details:1999-2002 Grand Cherokee. A new transmission fluid (ATF+4® Type 9602) has been developed and is being used as factory fill for all vehicles with
Chrysler automatic transmissions. Until now, vehicles originally filled with
ATF+2 or ATF+3 were to be serviced with ATF+3. Effective immediately, it is
recommended that all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions (except for 1999 and earlier minivans) be serviced with ATF+4®.

NOTE: ATF+4® MUST always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4®. ATF+4® is compatible with ATF+3 and can be used to top off vehicles that currently have ATF+2 or ATF+3. DO NOT use ATF+2 or ATF+3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4® fluid.

Benefits:
Better anti-wear properties
Improved rust/corrosion prevention
Controls oxidation
Eliminates deposits
Controls friction
Retains anti-foaming properties
Superior properties for low temperature operation

Fluid color:
Mopar ATF+4® is a World Class Fluid having exceptional durability. However, the red dye used in ATF+4® is not permanent; as the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4® also has a unique odor that may change with age. With ATF+4® fluid, color and odor are no longer indicators of fluid condition and do not support a fluid change.


THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-006-01,

DATED JUNE 29, 2001, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR
FILES. THIS IS A COMPLETE REVISION AND NO ASTERISKS HAVE
BEEN ADDED TO HIGHLIGHT REVISIONS.

SUBJECT:

Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type 9602)

MODELS:

1989 - 1995 (AA) Spirit/Acclaim/Lebaron Sedan
1989 - 2003 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
1989 - 1993 (AC) Dynasty/New Yorker/New Yorker Salon
1989 - 1993 (AD) Ram Truck
1989 - 1994 (AG) Daytona
1989 (AH) Lancer/Lebaron GTS
1989 - 1995 (AJ) Lebaron Coupe/Lebaron Convertible
1989 - 1990 (AK) Aries/Reliant
1989 - 1990 (AL) Horizon/Omni
1989 (AM) Diplomat/Gran Fury/New Yorker fifth Avenue
1989 - 2004 (AN) Dakota
1989 - 1994 (AP) Shadow/Sundance
1990 - 1991 (AQ) Maserati
1990 - 1993 (AY) Imperial/New Yorker Fifth Avenue
1994 - 2003 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
2004 - 2005 (CS) Pacifica
1998 - 2003 (DN) Durango
2002 - 2004 (DR) Ram Truck
1995 - 2000 (FJ) Sebring/Avenger/Talon
2000 (GS) Chrysler Voyager (International Market)
2004 (HB) Durango
1995 - 2000 (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze
2001- 2004 (JR) Sebring Sedan & Convertible/Stratus Sedan
21-004-04 -2-
1996 - 2000 (JX) Sebring Convertible
2002 - 2004 (KJ) Liberty
1993 - 2004 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/Vision/LHS/New
Yorker /300M
2005 (LX) Chrysler 300/Magnum
2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1995 - 2004 (PL) Neon
2002 - 2003 (PG) PT Cruiser (International Markets)
2001 - 2005 (PT) PT Cruiser
1997 - 2002 (PR) Prowler
2001 - 2005 (RG) Chrysler Voyager (International Markets)
2001 - 2005 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1997 - 2004 (TJ) Wrangler
2001 - 2004 (WG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1999 - 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
1989 - 1995 (YJ) Wrangler
1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee/Grand Wagoneer



NOTE: This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE transmission, This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AW-4 transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ).

DISCUSSION:

A new transmission fluid (ATF+4
® - Type 9602) has been developed and is being
used as factory fill for all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions.It is
recommended that all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions EXCEPT
FOR THOSE LISTED ABOVE be serviced with ATF+4®..

NOTE: ATF+4
® must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4®.

NOTE: Service intervals do not change. The service interval currently in
effect for a given vehicle should continue to be followed.

 

[falcon556]

Be sure to use the right type of transmission fluid. Dex/Merc will work in a pinch, but you really should be using ATF +3 in your AW4 as that is what is called for.

Where? I checked the FSM, owners manual, and service bulletins.
Could you please tell us your source?

 

[5-90]

So, all Chrysler slushboxes are supposed to get +3/+4/+whatever.

Flaw in logic - the AW4 is a Toyota slushbox, not ChryCo. As such, Dexron II/III is called for, no? Chrysler would be the 3xRE/3xRH, 4xRE/4xRH, and such (overhauled TF727/904/999, more than anything else.)

Check my logic on this one, because I'd hate to think I was missing something, but the AW4 was designed - and originally used by - Toyota. As I recall, it was used in the Celica, Supra, Pickup, and RWD Van. I think it also appeared in a couple RWD Lexus applications as well...

5-90

 

[RandyD71]

I don't work at a dealer just a very busy shop. When the behicle is looked up in AllData or ShopKey the fluid will be listed as Type 7176 which is ATF+3. I had my transmission repalced by a reputable shop because I don't rebuild them yself and felt better letting an expert do it and asked what type of fluid it was filled with and was told +3. ATF +4 is not a direct replcement for +3 just as Dex/merc V is not direct replcement for Dex/merc II or III. These new fluids are full synthetic and the transmissions that use them cannot use the older fluids.

 

[falcon556]

Important exceptions for Jeep owners

Danny noted: "The Jeep AW-4 (Aisin-Warner) transmission should use Dexron III."

Greg, a DCX tech, wrote that the AW4/AX4 transmission was used on 4.0L 6-cyl Jeep Cherokees through the end of their production, and on the first six-cylinder 1993 Grand Cherokees (built in 1992 and 1993), but on the Grand Cherokee it was phased out midway through the 1993 model year. This transmission requires Dexron, while the 42RE / A500SE which replaced the Aisin-Warner transmission midway in the 1993 model year needs ATF+4. Again, if you are confused, you may just want to try one of the new universal fluids that is both Dexron and ATF+4 compatible.

I got this from here: http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html

 

[falcon556]

So, all Chrysler slushboxes are supposed to get +3/+4/+whatever.

Flaw in logic - the AW4 is a Toyota slushbox, not ChryCo. As such, Dexron II/III is called for, no? Chrysler would be the 3xRE/3xRH, 4xRE/4xRH, and such (overhauled TF727/904/999, more than anything else.)

Check my logic on this one, because I'd hate to think I was missing something, but the AW4 was designed - and originally used by - Toyota. As I recall, it was used in the Celica, Supra, Pickup, and RWD Van. I think it also appeared in a couple RWD Lexus applications as well...

5-90

Correct AW stands for Aisin Warner ( I hope I didn't mess the spelling)
Look at the note. None of these can use it. On the other hand I use it for my transfer cases. I decided that if it can be used in early Chrysler transmissions without messing up the seals, it is probably good for transfer cases. If I am wrong the three 242 TCs that use it will leak, easy to fix.

NOTE: This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE transmission, This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AW-4 transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ).

 

[lawsoncl]

Lets make this even more confusing!

My 93 ZJ has an AW4 (yes it really does). The owners manual under the fluids section calls for "Mercon or Dexron II". On the quick reference guide on the back cover it says "Mopar ATF+ (type 7176) preferred". Even stranger the dipsitck says "ATF Plus OR Dexron II". The drain plug does have the DII stamped in it. I changed it with 7176 about 100k ago and it's still fine. The 7176 bottle claimed compatibility with Dexron II.

My 1995 and 2000 FSM call for Mercon/Dextron IIe as well. The AW4 in my MJ is running Dexron III just fine.

 

[88JeepXJ]

well this has been a completely confusing thread...thanks.

So what should I use in my '99 AW4?

 

[lawsoncl]

well this has been a completely confusing thread...thanks.

So what should I use in my '99 AW4?

I would use Dexron III which is compatible with DexII which is what the FSM calls for. I'm running it in the 99 AW4 thats living in my MJ. Just curious, what does your owners manual say?

-Chris

 

[mdicanio]

This is all great information. BTW, I checked the bolt on the pan of the tranny it has a DII stamped in it.

Aside from this I still don't have an answer to my question.... I changed the fluid 3 times,drained the pan only, and refilled with ATF+3. I have been running on a mix of Dexron and ATF+3 for 100,000 miles with no trouble. Three questions, 1) should I drain the pan and refill it and wait another 30K to drain it again, OR 2) can I drain the pan, refill, drive for a while, drain, refill, etc..... or 3) should I just leave it alone.

Also, if I pull the pan, how much will come out? More than 3 or 4 quarts? If so, then maybe this is a good way to drain more and refill with the correct fluid.

Last but not least why have I had not had any problems so far? thanks.

 

[JJacobs]

From the Ford side of things- we have Mercon, Merc V, Mercon SP for the new Torqshifts. Mercon has always been rated as Dexron equivalent (not sure II or III or whatever designation). They just issued a bulletin similar to Chrysler's. Now you buy universal Mercon that works as the original or Merc V, or Dexron. For whatever reason the mfg's like to play with ATF formulations, so don't get too hung up on whatever the manual says since it's probably not available anymore.

 

[Fish'nCarz]

When the behicle is looked up in AllData or ShopKey the fluid will be listed as Type 7176 which is ATF+3.

Auto Zone got the same information on my '01. It's just wrong, that's all. I'll stay with the FSM and owner's manual prescription.

 

[falcon556]

Lets make this even more confusing!

My 93 ZJ has an AW4 (yes it really does). The owners manual under the fluids section calls for "Mercon or Dexron II". On the quick reference guide on the back cover it says "Mopar ATF+ (type 7176) preferred". Even stranger the dipsitck says "ATF Plus OR Dexron II". The drain plug does have the DII stamped in it. I changed it with 7176 about 100k ago and it's still fine. The 7176 bottle claimed compatibility with Dexron II.

My 1995 and 2000 FSM call for Mercon/Dextron IIe as well. The AW4 in my MJ is running Dexron III just fine.

They are all transmission fluids some better suited for a specific unit than others. I don't think that using the wrong fluid means immediate self destruct.
I just like to use what I should. I own a 01 WJ. The manual calls for ATF+3 for the transmission and ATF+4 for the TC. I use ATF+4 in both.
My XJs use Dexron III. Normally I wouldn't make a big thing about it, except that I think that the AW4 is finicky, I remember having problems with an earlier XJ when I changed to Mobil1. Other members of this forum have had fluid problems with the AW4.