Cars you hate

[bjoehandley]

To me the FWD/RWD/AWD/4WD argument is pointless, if you're stupid or wreckless enough, you can kill yourself walking through a smooth, flat, empty parkinglot while completly sober and on an overcast day (no sunblindness) let alone in a car/truck/suv/van.

Mitsu has put turbos on lots of 4cyl models (the SRT-4 owes its life to Mitsu).

Only if you're talkig turbo only, it's got a Chrylser engine, an distant cousin of the Neon 2.0l, which was designed by Chrysler. I had a Lebaron with a Garrett made turbocharger and a Shadow with a Mitsu made turbocharger, I'd take the Garrett anyday over the Mitsu turbo, much better design, especially the wastegate. The new Mini that GSequoia just bought has an engine that was co-designed by Chrysler (pre-Daimler) and BMW.

I've never had a problem telling a Taurus from a Neon from an Impala (FWD or RWD), you'd have to be almost blind not to notice the differance between the three, and to me, most of the Japanese cars are pretty dull looking.

Mitsubishi is currently in DEEP trouble from fall out (no matter what they do, they can't shake it) for hiding complaints from their faulty work from the Japanese goverment. I don't know if skierbri has heard this, but I've recentlyt read where Toyota has bad a major problem with Camery/Sienna V-6's sludging up severly, a kid the store I work at recently hired (very mechanicly inclined and was a customer before we hired him)was telling me an Autoshop teacher at his school had pulled the valve cover on a Sienna and couldn't find ANY of the valvetrain because of the sludge build up. The worst part is that for a long time Toyota had refused to do a recall claiming it's the customers fault for not changing the oil enough, even if they have proof that they followed the maintenence to the letter (that has been changed since from what I've read).

 

[skierbri10]

To me the FWD/RWD/AWD/4WD argument is pointless, if you're stupid or wreckless enough, you can kill yourself walking through a smooth, flat, empty parkinglot while completly sober and on an overcast day (no sunblindness) let alone in a car/truck/suv/van.



Only if you're talkig turbo only, it's got a Chrylser engine, an distant cousin of the Neon 2.0l, which was designed by Chrysler. I had a Lebaron with a Garrett made turbocharger and a Shadow with a Mitsu made turbocharger, I'd take the Garrett anyday over the Mitsu turbo, much better design, especially the wastegate. The new Mini that GSequoia just bought has an engine that was co-designed by Chrysler (pre-Daimler) and BMW.

I've never had a problem telling a Taurus from a Neon from an Impala (FWD or RWD), you'd have to be almost blind not to notice the differance between the three, and to me, most of the Japanese cars are pretty dull looking.

Mitsubishi is currently in DEEP trouble from fall out (no matter what they do, they can't shake it) for hiding complaints from their faulty work from the Japanese goverment. I don't know if skierbri has heard this, but I've recentlyt read where Toyota has bad a major problem with Camery/Sienna V-6's sludging up severly, a kid the store I work at recently hired (very mechanicly inclined and was a customer before we hired him)was telling me an Autoshop teacher at his school had pulled the valve cover on a Sienna and couldn't find ANY of the valvetrain because of the sludge build up. The worst part is that for a long time Toyota had refused to do a recall claiming it's the customers fault for not changing the oil enough, even if they have proof that they followed the maintenence to the letter (that has been changed since from what I've read).

I hadn't heard that about Toyota, but have had the oportunity to disuss the weak tranny in the automatic Honda's.

Also, go to discuss why so many of Toyota's pistons are cracking and Piston rods destroying engines, on Matrix's.

So few believe that Toyo's and Honda's aren't what they used to be. But that is okay I will smile and wave when I pass them on the road. :wave:

 

[bjoehandley]

Never heard that about the Toyota pistons, have you heard about the early 90's Honda Accord's with the ignition "sparker" that fails and takes the distributer with it, a co-worker had to do that on her's (cost her $700!!!! :shocked: ) and she's only put 77k on the car since she bought it NEW!

I seem to remember a story Dad told me a few years ago about Toyota truck owners he's talked to. They always seem to call domestic trucks (in general) oil leaking junk compaired to their Toyotas, Dad just reminds then that His Cherokee (the '88 at the time with around 180k or so), runs plenty strong with just a tune up and regular oil changes. After running into one of them in an auto parts store and telling some bozo this, the guy walks out in a huff. The guy behind the counter told Dad afterward that this guy seems to buy alot of parts for having such a reliable truck.........

 

[skierbri10]

Never heard that about the Toyota pistons, have you heard about the early 90's Honda Accord's with the ignition "sparker" that fails and takes the distributer with it, a co-worker had to do that on her's (cost her $700!!!! :shocked: ) and she's only put 77k on the car since she bought it NEW!

I seem to remember a story Dad told me a few years ago about Toyota truck owners he's talked to. They always seem to call domestic trucks (in general) oil leaking junk compaired to their Toyotas, Dad just reminds then that His Cherokee (the '88 at the time with around 180k or so), runs plenty strong with just a tune up and regular oil changes. After running into one of them in an auto parts store and telling some bozo this, the guy walks out in a huff. The guy behind the counter told Dad afterward that this guy seems to buy alot of parts for having such a reliable truck.........

That's pretty funny... :spin1:

Haven't heard about the Honda thing, but did hear about the Nissans that are breaking axels at highway speeds. Seems to be an epidemic. Also, heard of Toyotas when they fry thier starters takes there fuse box and computer with it. Somehow they screwed that one up, how many years have cars been around????

 

[XJ Dreamin']

if I want a car that looks good, runs a long time, gets good mileage, fast, I can't think of a US car that does that.

'69 Charger R/T

Well, that's only 2 out of 4, but really...after looks good and fast, what else matters? :laugh3:

 

[bajacalal]

But guess who are the two top ranked JD Power and Assc. for corporate-wide reliablility (long term, measured after 3 yrs, not initial). Toyota and Honda, followed by Porsche. As far as individual models (this study is based on problems per vehicle) where did the Big 3 win? Pickups (surprised) and midsize sedans (the Malibu is listed, but can't think of a Jap comparison, we are debating small cars). Every other car, Japanese (but what is an import car anyway). Go back a few years and the big 3, particularly ford are at the bottom. Good they are trying harder though.
http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/winners.asp?StudyID=860&CatID=1

As for the black sludge of death, that is a problem a lot of carmakers are facing as engine compartments become more cramped, engine tolerances become tighter and consumers follow "normal" schedules when their driving is "severe" and follow synthetic schedules for dinosaur oil. That is of course consumer negligence and but it does lead to my biggest issue with all carmakers:

"maintenance free" I hate this concept. That and those plastic headlights everything has now. The carmakers and auto-chemical makers have gotten away with making rediculous claims about maintenance necessity without seriously considering real world conditions and by making only minor changes to the products. Look at DexCool, good idea, but Chevy exaggerated the longevity and bit and took the bullet. I am seriously concerned, now that mobil is now claiming 15000 mile intervals, people are going to drive 15000 miles towing a boat with that oil. And people won't be under their hood changing their oil as much and will fail to notice other problems (low coolant, cracking belt, etc.)

Skierbri10 brings up a good point though, US cars are easier maintenance and performance under adverse conditions. Take my old man's chevy truck with a 4.3 v6, it has 290000 miles, original head, motor, tranny, water pump! You see Toyota 22R based trucks like that too, but not constantly pulling water tanks, driven in the desert, dusty, mountains, construction work, etc., and with just oil every 3k. We aren't debating US trucks. I love American trucks. Like I said before American truck = American compact :nono:

Anyway, guys we are debating cars we HATE which is subjective and touchy so don't take this personal. I didd't mean compare malibus to neons to caddys. But compare neon to taurus or midsize to midsize, compact to compact, you get the point right? Same basic look, engine packages. If you want a rotary engine or boxer awd or Vtech interests you or a manual tranny or hatch easily avaliable on almost all models (I look more at whats on the inside its going to be Japanese and a Civic doesn't look Mitsu. I like a lot of vehicles, trucks, big v8s (I said they are impractical), chargers :guitar:, Jeep, but for small, non-premium (not Lebaron) the Big 3 don't measure up for me. Saturn cool cars, but uncomfortable.

What are the Japanese makers banking on as far as the next auto trend?
Sporty, RWD sedans. Yep, who's copying who now? At least they are not FWD. Cheaper to make FWD but if performance and handling and vehicle balance isin't better with RWD, why haven't any performance brands (BMW, Jag, Audi, Benz, Volvo, etc) commonly put FWD on even 4cyl models?

I read the SRT-4 was mistu-inspired or ricerocket inspired. They have worked closely since the 80's (and DC ownes part of Mistu) I, of course think the interior is cheezy and but hey you can't be the MSRP for a turbo car.

 

[skierbri10]

I actually like the Neon, I liked the Civic Si hatch, but they don't make enough colors, or at least the color I want. Plus, the shifter is in a wierd place. I had a 2000 Neon 5 speed, it could out perform it's competition, but the editors of the mags. were getting paid to say enough good things about it. I also had a 92 Mazda Protege, with the "good" engine. The DOHC one. But the CV joints would go out every 12,000 miles. I put 131,000 miles on it, but finally got sick of pulling the engine to replace the CV's. My most hated is a tie between the British and French auto makers. They are too expensive and not reliable. Then Japanese then Korean then Ford. If I was to buy a car right now it would either be a DC or BMW or a VW company (Audi, VW, Porsche). There I think I got it back on track a bit. :us: :laugh3:

 

[PapaPump]

i think i really only hate as a whole, the korean industry and mitsubishi. mitsu makes some cool cars, but they all seem to have many many troubles. the koreans dont make a single appealing car and they are unreliable and everything feels cheap.

i generally dont like hondas because they lack anything that makes me excited...even the NSX is pretty dull. i might make an exception for a del sol or CRX because they are different. they are also the most common car at the few junkyards ive been to (100s of square accords)

and i have to say a good word for FORD because no one else seems to like them. i had a couple problems with the 3 fords i have had, the ranger needed a starter at 140000, the escort zx2 needed an alternator at 60000 and the taurus needed a head gasket at 120000. none of these put me out of the game very long and though they are fairly major repairs, they were easier than timing belt replacement that many cars require periodically. for all other things the fords were great. solid over the road feel and good handling. and the doors all had a hefty shut to them, i love that, the cars felt solid.

 

[cykaaro]

I also don't like the Hummer H3 (In addition to the H2s)

I mean the true Military HumVee was and still is cool.
The H1 was cool just because they were rare and still bad@$$. (Rent The Rock)
I can't stand the H2s, but i can see some practicality to them (only when compared to the H1).
But now there will be H3s. I think Hummer is just trying too hard with this one. It is a downsized H2. Why would someone buy a Hummer, and get the smallest one you could?

Hummer is just trying to soak up all the left over people that wanted XJs, but can't get a new one because DC screwed up and stopped making them.

Sorry, just a little rant.

Don't forget that GM bought them out and now builds them and vased on a tahoe frame. I personally think they ruined a good vehicle. H2's to me are basically rice'd out hummers.

For me the two worst are minivans, and a lot of these hondas. Majority of minivan drivers can't drive as they think they're in a small car. Tin cans on wheels, and crush like one. Hondas take up a close second., I think these kiddies think they're in go-carts playing a video game, and can dart and cut in any space. I've seen a few nicely meet 'the wall of death' . Guess they zigged when the should have zagged and hit the wall at 120km/h+ so they wouldn't rear end someone hehehe. How about those boxy old honda civics riced out? Now there's fugly!

Saw a pimped out XJ on the highway last week. Guy did a nice job actually, although it'd get totalled offroad. Hell of a lot nicer than any riced out honda I've see.

 

[junkxj]

i generally dont like hondas because they lack anything that makes me excited...even the NSX is pretty dull. i might make an exception for a del sol or CRX because they are different. QUOTE]

So you like a del sol more than a NSX?

 

[PapaPump]

Don't forget that GM bought them out and now builds them and vased on a tahoe frame. I personally think they ruined a good vehicle. H2's to me are basically rice'd out hummers.

AM General is still its own company, GM just handles the Marketing and Distribution. GM did design the H2 though. It's an OKAY vehicle, just like the Tahoe is. However I can list it as a vehicle I hate because they are ugly, overpriced and mostly just yuppie moms drive them. The H1 is nearly the same vehicle it was in 1979, just "sporterized." In fact, the partnership between AM and GM has made the H1 a much better truck by fixing it's main issue. Finally it has an engine worthy of its stature, thanks Isuzu.

So you like a del sol more than a NSX?

heh, not really. the NSX is waaaaay out of my price range and I have never considered it for ownership. If I had that kind of money it would not be on my list. The CRX and the del sol are sorta cool because they are different, as a supercar, the NSX is dull.

 

[xuv-this]

AM General is still its own company, GM just handles the Marketing and Distribution. GM did design the H2 though. It's an OKAY vehicle, just like the Tahoe is. However I can list it as a vehicle I hate because they are ugly, overpriced and mostly just yuppie moms drive them. The H1 is nearly the same vehicle it was in 1979, just "sporterized." In fact, the partnership between AM and GM has made the H1 a much better truck by fixing it's main issue. Finally it has an engine worthy of its stature, thanks Isuzu.

i basically hate any GM hummer because they are taking the name and rep. while selling overpriced crap to people that doesn't live up to it. and a 5000 lb hmmwv with a deisel is not the same thing as a gm h1.

 

[casm]

i basically hate any GM hummer because they are taking the name and rep. while selling overpriced crap to people that doesn't live up to it. and a 5000 lb hmmwv with a deisel is not the same thing as a gm h1.

One thing I will give credit to some purchasers of earlier H1s I've seen recently, though: people here in horse country have figured out that the $35000 used H1 can tow a 4-horse horse box just as well as a brand-new $55000 diesel pickup. Besides, the H1 has long-ceased to be a fashion-accessory vehicle. People who have them now know what they're buying - and it's hard not to respect them given that they aren't all that far removed from their military heritage.

 

[xuv-this]

One thing I will give credit to some purchasers of earlier H1s I've seen recently, though: people here in horse country have figured out that the $35000 used H1 can tow a 4-horse horse box just as well as a brand-new $55000 diesel pickup. Besides, the H1 has long-ceased to be a fashion-accessory vehicle. People who have them now know what they're buying - and it's hard not to respect them given that they aren't all that far removed from their military heritage.

i do like the look(exterior) in black, but gm ruined all badass-ness of the vehicle because it has no deisel, AND is also heavier (wierd in the deisel dept. because deisel motors are usually much heavier than gas) but the low end on those deisel hmmwv's is awsome, but i've seen H1's get stuck in loose sand dunes where the military kind would make it easily. and all the crap gm put in the interior in a woefull attempt to "dress it up" makes it fugly and ruins all the cool features i like about the inside of hmmwv's.

 

[PapaPump]

i do like the look(exterior) in black, but gm ruined all badass-ness of the vehicle because it has no deisel, AND is also heavier (wierd in the deisel dept. because deisel motors are usually much heavier than gas) but the low end on those deisel hmmwv's is awsome, but i've seen H1's get stuck in loose sand dunes where the military kind would make it easily. and all the crap gm put in the interior in a woefull attempt to "dress it up" makes it fugly and ruins all the cool features i like about the inside of hmmwv's.

okay now you are making things up. the current and all Hummers have a detroit diesel available. hummers were only available with a 350 chevrolet engine for only a couple of years, but they were underpowered in that application. current hummers are available with the isuzu designed duramax diesel which is a far better engine than the military hummers use. (they still have the old diesel also) the only possibility i can think of a civilian hummer being less capable than a military hummer is based on the added weight of the full interior, which can't be much (oh yeah and not having night vision and armor). in either guise it is a heavy truck, and wont do as well in sand as our xjs without some more serious meats. the H1 is so ugly though, that i once even would have considered it something i hated. before the duramax even, i felt they were grossly underpowered, and still would have spent 100k elsewhere. i dont have that kind of money and dont think i will anytime soon, but if i did i think that the H1 Alpha would be on the list.

 

[xuv-this]

okay now you are making things up. the current and all Hummers have a detroit diesel available. hummers were only available with a 350 chevrolet engine for only a couple of years, but they were underpowered in that application. current hummers are available with the isuzu designed duramax diesel which is a far better engine than the military hummers use. (they still have the old diesel also) the only possibility i can think of a civilian hummer being less capable than a military hummer is based on the added weight of the full interior, which can't be much (oh yeah and not having night vision and armor). in either guise it is a heavy truck, and wont do as well in sand as our xjs without some more serious meats. the H1 is so ugly though, that i once even would have considered it something i hated. before the duramax even, i felt they were grossly underpowered, and still would have spent 100k elsewhere. i dont have that kind of money and dont think i will anytime soon, but if i did i think that the H1 Alpha would be on the list.

<my mistake> i did not know that they finally put a deisel in them. but trust me. that detroit is not underpowered. it is just slow. i've seen them power a hmmwv up 45* slopes with like 3,000lbs of payload, towing a 1100lb trailer. but, on the down side detroit's have really went to $h!t since i was a kid. we used to NOT take the restrictor orings out of fuel pumps on m113 detroits(turbodeisels), they would get more power, but broke sooner. the armor versions really do suck in loose sand, they are meant more for urban type stuff. the gm bodies are heavier because they are steel, welded, bolted, etc. look at this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=5360&item=4553588305&rd=1

ok. here's a 10,300lb. AMG h1. with the turbodeisel. note the sticker on it. so do you mean 5,100lbs of interior stuff? hell, at 5 tons, the army has nothing to airlift it!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=5360&item=4553588305&rd=1

now here's a HMMWV.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=5360&item=4553221265&rd=1

see the difference? note the molded fiberglass hood. note the rivets. note the TAG CLOSE UP PIC ! yup, a delivered 96' weighs 5200lbs. see the hollow tailgate? it only weighs about 20lbs. hell, some of the body lines are even different. i'm pretty sure that they use mostly the same tooling for the body, just different materials. yes it is a non turbodeisel. i'm 99% sure that the turbodeisel was only on the up-armor and heavy equipment carrying versions. with the chassis/suspension package. i have seen them run in sand. in the desert. i have driven them. a lot. it was part of my job.

long story short, the H1 was a "beutified" version of the hmmwv. nobody tried to turn the old cj's into soccer mom bling buckets...leave it to GM to ruin a really good design. the rear seats don't fold flat. you don't have the tie down versatility. it's heavier, etc . if you like, i'm SURE i've got some old manuals lying around somewhere.....

 

[Gnat5680]

hey im bringing this up from the dead!

I love the look of the scions. i test drove one but it can't acc. worth crap! it just sits there until you get it above 500 rpms. then it takes off!

the brakes are good though.

i hate:
1. h2
2. loud rust buckets(if they look nice then i have no problem)
3. cars i will never own.
4. rich people who cut you off in there nice BMW's
(if i were them i wouldn't. they have a car that is brand new and worth $45,000. i have an old pos jeep thats worth 3,000 that could tear right through it but unfortunetly i live in a no fault state. so i don't

 

[reliablestv]

my first car was a 74 chevey nova it changed in the 80's into a sh@t box nissan looking turd
i resent chevy for the morph of a classic muscle car into a economy car

 

[flexjay87]

yugo's and just about anything France had a hand in, of course the English made some real turds too.

 

[w_howey]

my first car was a 74 chevey nova it changed in the 80's into a sh@t box nissan looking turd
i resent chevy for the morph of a classic muscle car into a economy car

Actually Toyota, but same effect.

My first was a 62 Chevy II. The Nova before it was a Nova. I resent Chevy for turning it into the pseudo-streamlined grandma cruiser like you owned.