By the people, for the people (merged)

[RichP]

Re: By the people, for the people

unless they come really soon....heres my moto...you can have my house when you pull th gun outta my cold, dead, hand.

Nope, wrong target, that would just be people following orders, you'd need to go after the developer and his group, quietly.. 1 at a time or at the ribbon cutting .. THEN the local politicians who the devleoper paid off... I wonder how long it will be before law enforcement just says NO to such and order or if they would have the cajones to go tell the town council to get bent.. maybe the LEO community is not that smart to realize their freedoms are going too...I can't think of any law in the last 45 years here that has not been prostituted or subverted for other uses..

 

[hackedxj]

Re: By the people, for the people

i think its great. people are to selfish trying to keep their own land, what the hell is the matter with them

You keep talking like that and you'll end up in the White House. lol

 

[red91]

Re: wtf!?

Its hard to love a country whose government squashes the very people that support it.

at least we can be welcomed in another one just by showing up.

but the idea of being surrounded by idiots here, or a few thousand miles away, kinda wrecks the whole thing.

Never a monments peace.

 

[red91]

Re: By the people, for the people

Funny side note: My first road costruction project involved encroaching on a small business' parking lot (the widened road took apprx 3/6 spaces) The business was a fortune teller, who relocated to a neighboring town. 10 months later we're over in that town staking out for another major widening/drainage project... You don't need a magic 8-ball to guess who's already meager parking lot got a curb/gutter/sidewalk through it... :laugh3:

She must be related to Ms. Cleo . You think "SHE" should have been the first to see that coming

 

[woody]

Re: By the people, for the people

Maybe she did and made a killing on both deals :dunno: I'm not party to that aspect of the projects. If not, then there is likely a voodoo doll likeness of the Resident Engineer, with a bunch of surveyors tacks jammed in his orifices and a Tonka D6H parked on his forehead.

 

[w_howey]

Re: By the people, for the people

Maybe she did and made a killing on both deals :dunno: I'm not party to that aspect of the projects. If not, then there is likely a voodoo doll likeness of the Resident Engineer, with a bunch of surveyors tacks jammed in his orifices and a Tonka D6H parked on his forehead.

When DOT, was enlarging the State Higway in front of my house, we got MORE than a fair settlement over the 8 foot of property they took. I also got paid for the trees they took that were actually on easement property, and rent of my driveway during the day. My neighbor who wanted to fight it, ended up being beaten silly by the courts(got the first offer the state made, and had to pay his court costs.)

Like the aquisition people said, If you come to the negotiations with an open mind and are realistic in your demands, the state can be accomodating.

 

[Ironmen77]

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]

Private property rights are what makes this a free country. If you pissoff the city commisson they can take your property, say bye to all freedoms.

 

[Boatwrench]

Who do we contact to invest in that hotel on Souter's old place?

 

[XJ4x4]

I think its a stupid idea to take someones property and give it to someone else.

 

[5-90]

Of course - but after eminent domain and siezure for non-payment of assessed property taxes, this is simply the next logical step in the dissolution of property rights (which was considered to be one of the most important rights when this country was created - refer to the Fourth and Sixth amendments, I believe.)

So, what's next? How long will it be before you can't actually "buy" property - you just "hire" it for the rest of your life?

"Spirit of '76 - Re-elect nobody!" If we start tossing these asses out, maybe we can get somewhere...

5-90

 

[bjoehandley]

"Spirit of '76 - Re-elect nobody!" If we start tossing these asses out, maybe we can get somewhere...

Like your thinking there 5-90, like the saying goes "Polititions and diapers need changing, usually for the same reason!"

 

[Danno]

There is a lot of land in SoCal that have stuff built on them with the owners not owning the underlying land. (renting the land) The Irvine Ranch property comes to mind as well as others. You buy a house with a 99 year lease on the land.

Of course - but after eminent domain and siezure for non-payment of assessed property taxes, this is simply the next logical step in the dissolution of property rights (which was considered to be one of the most important rights when this country was created - refer to the Fourth and Sixth amendments, I believe.)

So, what's next? How long will it be before you can't actually "buy" property - you just "hire" it for the rest of your life?

"Spirit of '76 - Re-elect nobody!" If we start tossing these asses out, maybe we can get somewhere...

5-90

 

[5-90]

Allow me to complete the thought...

"America, at this time, is being played out on a giant Monopoly board. Everyone who isn't in jail or going to jail is running around, buying and selling small pieces of paper with absolute seriousness of purpose, without realizing that there will only be one winner - and when he gets out of jail, he's going to kick all their asses."

I think that's what's going to happen if the pols don't get their act together - someone, somewhere, is going to get a batch of ruffians together. And it won't be pretty.

At this point, I'm about to start assembling my own motley crew and get ready to get to work. I don't want to overthrow the government - I just want to fire them.

Reinstate term limits at all levels of government, and limit the exercise of the sovereign franchise and the ability to participate in governance to those who have demonstrated a positive responsibility to the health and safety of the body politic at large - make that the only criterion. For details, read Starship Troopers by Heinlein.

An alternative would be The Curious Republic of Gondour by Mark Twain/Samuel Langhorne Clemens.

If you haven't read either (or both! Perish the thought...) go to the library and get them, and go look up your former literature "teachers" and give them a sound whack upside the head for being remiss in their duty to educate you.

Here's my recommended reading list for political treatises:

1984 - George Orwell. An excellent example of the "negative Utopia," and what can happen if we let the government get out of hand.

Animal Farm - Orwell. An allegorical/fictional approach to the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia.

Brave New World - Aldous Huxley. Probably the genesis of the plot of

Demolition Man (they stole my moniker!) and another interesting treatment of socialist ideals.

The Communist Manifesto - Karl Marks and Frederich Engels. This is supposed to be the guiding force behind World Socialism - neverminding the fact that every society which has billed itself as "Socialist," "Marxist," or "Communist" doesn't even come close. Why read this? "To know your enemy as you know yourself is to triumph in battle." (Sun Tzu.)

The Curious Republic of Gondour - Mark Twain, short story. An intriguing approach to the monetary "poll taxes" which were outlawed in the creation of the United States. Examination of the records of the early debates leading up to the formulation of the Constitution shows that, while the Founding Fathers didn't believe in a poll tax, they damn sure did believe that a voting member of society should have an interest in the goings-on around him - voters were expected to be landowers, journeymen, storekeepers, or to have some other stabilising influence upon their thinking.

Starship Troopers - Robert Anson Heinlein. Forget what you know about the story from the movie - Verhoeven should be beaten and pilloried for what he did to that story - his partial atonement with the CGI series Roughnecks: The Starship Trooper Chronicles is only marginal penance. The original story is an excellent treatment of military philosophy, and how a mature society can be run.

Essay after Who Are the Heirs of Patrick Henry?, found in Expanded Universe, pp 397-402. (My copy is dated 1980 - the page numbers may have changed a bit. I intend to post this essay somewhere, when I finally get a page on ars politica going...) Another interesting treatment of the idea of "universal sufferage," and a proposition for altering various limiting factors on the exercise of sovereign franchise in an attempt to force reform through practical means.

I've got more - but these are the ones that come to mind first. It would be instructive, for instance, to read "Mao's Little Red Book" - you can be damned sure the other side has, and going into battle without knowing who you're fighting is like going boxing with one foot in a bucket of cement and your smart hand in your pocket. You can never know everything, but you had damned well better know something

I'll shut up for now - I hope I've made some point here (but I've noted a tendency to ramble lately - I've run out of booze. I find that alcohol clears my mental fog most times...)

5-90

Like your thinking there 5-90, like the saying goes "Polititions and diapers need changing, usually for the same reason!"

 

[Ironmen77]

Fascist ethics begin ... with the acknowledgment that it is not the individual who confers a meaning upon society, but it is, instead, the existence of a human society which determines the human character of the individual. According to Fascism, a true, a great spiritual life cannot take place unless the State has risen to a position of pre-eminence in the world of man. The curtailment of liberty thus becomes justified at once, and this need of rising the State to its rightful position. [Mario Palmieri, "The Philosophy of Fascism" 1936]
Comrades! We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all." [Nikita Khrushchev , February 25, 1956 20th Congress of the Communist Party]
Sound familiar?


"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." [Hillary Clinton, 1993]


"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ..." [President Bill Clinton, 'USA Today' March 11, 1993: Page 2A]

That's where they got it.

 

[5-90]

I thought I remembered something like that, but I didn't want to get too far into specifics.

We all know where the Clintons keep their heads, along with most of the current crop of Democrats.

I find it vaguely amusing that most of the people voting Democrat these days seem to be our senior population - yet, while Social Security was created by a Democrat (FDR - the first Great Socialist,) every time it has been reduced it has been cut by a Democrat.

Medicare cuts are usually done by the Left as well - and then they blame everyone else. Go figure.

I don't have a lot of trouble with the idea of a "party" that is supposed to be "for the people" - but the Left is even more self-involved than the Right!

Thus - the need for a truly viable third party - prefereably one built upon the Libertarian ideals - and basing their actions upon lassiez faire - in short, leave us alone unless we actually DO something wrong.

"That government governs best which governs least."

5-90

 

[Ironmen77]

These people said it better than I can and most a long time ago.

"Politicians never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money --- only for wanting to keep your own money." [Joseph Sobran]

The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's good-by to the Bill of Rights. [H.L. Mencken]

This is one of my favorites. From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

Teddy Roosevelt said this on May 12, 1900 .. .while he was still governor of New York. Too bad we don't have more people who feel this way today.


"We can afford to differ on the currency, the tariff, and foreign policy; but we cannot afford to differ on the question of honesty if we expect our republic permanently to endure ...


"Honesty is not so much a credit as an absolute prerequisite to efficient service to the public. Unless a man is honest, we have no right to keep him in public life; it matters not how brilliant his capacity


"The weakling and the coward cannot be saved by honesty alone; but without honesty, the brave and able man is merely a civic wild beast who should be hunted down by every lover of righteousness.


"No man who is corrupt, no man who condones corruption in others, can possibly do his duty by the community...


"'Liar' is just as ugly a word as 'thief,' because it implies the presence of just as ugly a sin in one case as in the other. If a man lies under oath or procures the lie of another under oath, if he perjures himself or suborns perjury, he is guilty under the statute law.


"Under the higher law, under the great law of morality and righteousness, he is precisely as guilty if, instead of lying in a court, he lies in a newspaper or on the stump; and in all probability, the evil effects of his conduct are infinitely more widespread and more pernicious."

 

[Rocketman]

I agree with taking land ONLY when it's for public good/use. A highway whatever... The people that lose on the deals are the ones who are obstinent and fight it. Hey, It's a piece of land. If I make enough money, I can go buy a nicer one for my family.

Taking land to give to another individual for private gain... THAT IS ANOTHER STORY. (Unless that individual offers me a shitpot full of money!!):laugh3: