Buggy Build

[Bruno™]

not the same rig? :wierd:

Oops, didn't click your link. Haha.

:badpc:


-Lyle

 

[WaXJ_Skier]

No diesel. I love diesel's but I am not putting one in a buggy for two main reasons. They tend to be loud and they smell. There are a list of other draw backs for this type of rig but these are the two primary reasons in my book.

No turnkey. I "could" consider a built rig to start with to disasemble just of the drivetrain and axles IF the engine/tranny axles etc were all coming out of the same type of rig, but that is pretty unlikely. I enjoy the process of designing/building just as much as actually wheeling it

After doing a LOT of research on engines I have discovered several things.
1. There are a LOT of different engine choices aperwork
2. There are a LOT of issues mating each of them with a decent tranny
3. There are V8's that weight less than 4cylinders and 4 cylinders that put out more power than V8's.
4. The easy way out is to just stick a LSx in it. (That was the orginal intention after all) but would really prefer to find a better candidate (smaller, lighter, but still plenty of power).
5. I had never even considered the fact that I might find a decent engine/tranny and not be able to hook up an Atlas or Stak. I ran into this also!
6. I believe I want either a Turbo 4cylinder or Aluminum block V6. Preferably modern and easy to source.

My head is still buried in the books :looney:
Michael

What about a 4.0 stroker with an aluminum head? Not sure if it will mate up but a advanced adapters makes a low range box that integrates into a 42rle tranny so you get an additional 2.72 low range with no change in tranny length. That with an Atlas 4spd and you could get crazy low

 

[WaXJ_Skier]

430.5:1 if you want the definition of "crazy low." That's assuming 5.39 axles. And I checked the 42rle was used behind 4.0s

 

[2xtreme]

What about a 4.0 stroker with an aluminum head? Not sure if it will mate up but a advanced adapters makes a low range box that integrates into a 42rle tranny so you get an additional 2.72 low range with no change in tranny length. That with an Atlas 4spd and you could get crazy low

Good idea Joe. I should build a buggy around a heavy, tall, low powered engine and then spend a boat load of extra money on it to get some small amount of power back and reduce some small amount of weight

Don't get me wrong I do really like the 4.0. It is an excellent engine but not the kind of engine that I want to build a buggy around.

At the moment the LSx engine really seems like the best compromise for power/weight/size/cost. There are a number of light weight (aluminum) V6s that would also be great engines but they are more difficult to come by and tend to be more money. I really like the idea of finding a lower weight, smaller engine but for the small penalty in weight it doesn't seem like a good choice at the moment.

On a similar subject, IF I do go with the 9's and the LSx there is no way I am going to keep it under 2K lbs. 2.5K might be possible still which is still reasonable.

Do I need more reduction than say 200:1?

Michael

 

[WaXJ_Skier]

Good idea Joe. I should build a buggy around a heavy, tall, low powered engine and then spend a boat load of extra money on it to get some small amount of power back and reduce some small amount of weight

Don't get me wrong I do really like the 4.0. It is an excellent engine but not the kind of engine that I want to build a buggy around.

At the moment the LSx engine really seems like the best compromise for power/weight/size/cost. There are a number of light weight (aluminum) V6s that would also be great engines but they are more difficult to come by and tend to be more money. I really like the idea of finding a lower weight, smaller engine but for the small penalty in weight it doesn't seem like a good choice at the moment.

On a similar subject, IF I do go with the 9's and the LSx there is no way I am going to keep it under 2K lbs. 2.5K might be possible still which is still reasonable.

Do I need more reduction than say 200:1?

Michael

How much does a typical "stater tube chassis" weigh? and whats with all this power talk, has your 4.0 ever seen above 3k rpm?

 

[2xtreme]

How much does a typical "stater tube chassis" weigh? and whats with all this power talk, has your 4.0 ever seen above 3k rpm?

For weight reference I am usuing similar sized buggies with similar equipment. IF I went with a light weight turbo 4 cylinder and toy axles I could probably keep it under 2000lbs dry. With the few extra hundred pounds of 9" and 609 and a light weight V8 it would likely be closer to 2500lbs dry. I am not "worried" about weight, but I do understand that less weight does have significant advantages. The axle weight being un-sprung is less important than the engine weight. Tube buggy frame is about 300 lbs totally depending on size, tube, how finished it is.

I have never had any issues with the power from my 4.0. I don't NEED more power, on the other hand, I have never had a situation in ANY vehicle where I wouldn't mind a little more power (even if I dont get above 3K rpm)

The difference in weight from a reasonably light 4 cylinder and a LSx V8 is about 100lbs. That isn't that much of a weight difference on it's own. But would likely cost another 100lbs for fuel, cooling, tranny, etc.

Michael

 

[WaXJ_Skier]

For weight reference I am usuing similar sized buggies with similar equipment. IF I went with a light weight turbo 4 cylinder and toy axles I could probably keep it under 2000lbs dry. With the few extra hundred pounds of 9" and 609 and a light weight V8 it would likely be closer to 2500lbs dry. I am not "worried" about weight, but I do understand that less weight does have significant advantages. The axle weight being un-sprung is less important than the engine weight. Tube buggy frame is about 300 lbs totally depending on size, tube, how finished it is.

I have never had any issues with the power from my 4.0. I don't NEED more power, on the other hand, I have never had a situation in ANY vehicle where I wouldn't mind a little more power (even if I dont get above 3K rpm)

The difference in weight from a reasonably light 4 cylinder and a LSx V8 is about 100lbs. That isn't that much of a weight difference on it's own. But would likely cost another 100lbs for fuel, cooling, tranny, etc.

Michael

What about 9" rear 44 front?

 

[2xtreme]

What about 9" rear 44 front?

The 9" in stock rear form is a great axle, the only real down side is the low pinion (which I don't really think is that big of a down side).

The 44 is fine also, about the same strength as the toy axle but weights more.

I think at the moment that if I was to go with a front engine, I would probably use either a pair of toy axles or a 9", 44 combo. Either should work fine for my application but the toy axles are lighter and have just as much parts available to run what I need.

The rear engine idea really make the 9's a better solution only because you get the high pinion and easier to change the lengths of shafts, etc.

Just my thoughts at the moment.
Michael

 

[mud1059]

People that have problems with Yota axles don't know how to build yota axles. I say they're great. People put stock rears behind high power V8s, doublers, and large tires all the time. They always impress. Not only that, but Trailgear is a one stop shop for almost ANYTHING a yota guy needs. Bobby long is almost in our backyard. He's an incredibly nice, generous, and genuinely caring guy. I've kind of trailed off here, but yota axles are an excellent choice. Also, if you find yourself without proper gearing or traction options, their a simple dropout away.

http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/graph.html

What's the difference in clearance between a 60 or yota axle? 2 inches? That's 4 inch taller tires. You're the engineer here, what's the unsprung weight difference between a 60 and yota? Then add the difference in 4 inch taller tires. It's a no brainer, really.

There's no way a full hydro setup should cost $1000. Not even full hydro to include the rear steer. I mean hell, hoses are expensive, but really? Shop around. Piece things together from places like surpluscenter.com. I built my hydro assist for $120 bucks. You have full hydro on your tractor, there's no way it can cost $1000, not even if it's painted deere green! You have a kubota tho, no?

Rear steer. You're already 1/2 way there with full hydro front.

What about a WRX engine/tranny? I'm sure that'd kill your budget, but they have plenty of power and are already 4WD. Or a turbo'd talon? I dunno about their strength, but I was thinkin they're already set up with an option for 4x4. FWIW, Josh runs a 22rte block with fully machined head with propane conversion, supercharged (11 pounds of boost), doubled cases, and is always looking for more power. It's just not in the 4 cyl yotas.

I'm sure you thought of this, but if it were mine, I'd want to be able to compete if I felt inclined. With that in mind, I'd also like to swing by any auto parts store and be able to pick up whatever part I needed in a hurry. Actually, on second thought, you have an oversized limo for a tow rig, you could fit a whole extra buggy in the back for spares!

 

[2xtreme]

Thanks for all of the comments.

In the interest of time and money (and due to lots of research) I think my build may change a little. Same basic priorities but several things have become apparant to me in my research.

1. I think 37s are still the right size tire for what I want.
2. The toy axles should be plenty for the 37's as long as I am not doing a built V8 and my right foot gains 150lbs. The ease, cost, availability of these already built is a little too much to pass up to attempt the 9" and 609.
3. Front engine will be easier, and create less other issues. As long as I go with a "smaller" engine there shouldn't be too many issues with placement of 4 link.
4. Rear steer I don't think is important with a 103-105" WB. I would consider cutting breaks.
5. Starting with a already built rig (axles, lockers, gears, wheels, tires, drivetrain, tc, etc) seems to bring the cost and time to do this build significantly. I am more seriously considering buying a semi built rig and putting it all in a custom tube frame. This will get me the build that I want to do quicker, cheaper, and give me something to "upgrade" over time.

With this in mind, there are tons of toy's already built for cheap. The issues I see are the power of the more traditional 22re's and the more common stick tranny's.

Michael

 

[mud1059]

With this in mind, there are tons of toy's already built for cheap. The issues I see are the power of the more traditional 22re's and the more common stick tranny's.

Michael

How about a Tacoma or later model 4runner with a SAS (Solid Axle Swap) At least those had the V6. If I recall, those have a lot of probs with head gaskets and waterpumps failing.

I still like rear steer!

Also, didn't you have a Unimog or something you were going to use for this??

 

[2xtreme]

How about a Tacoma or later model 4runner with a SAS (Solid Axle Swap) At least those had the V6. If I recall, those have a lot of probs with head gaskets and waterpumps failing.

I still like rear steer!

Also, didn't you have a Unimog or something you were going to use for this??

Yeah, the "donor" vehicle could be anything from a typical toy pick up to a newer V6, or Land Cruiser, 40, 60, 80. They each have their advantages and disadvantages. I will keep my eye's out for the right donor and pick it up once I find the right deal (and have the money )

There are a selection of other cool engines like the VW, Subaru, Eclipse, Mitsu Vr4, etc, etc. The problem with most of these is none of them have a tranny that comes with them that I want to use and it just creates more issues with finding a tranny that will bolt up to them with the right adaptor or switching bell housings or making your own. It is all doable but more time consumine and a little less "off the shelf". I really prefer the idea of finding a engine/tranny/tc combo that comes in a vehicle or at least a engine/tranny/tc combo that easily swaps between vehicle models.

I do have a Range Rover classic, the intention was to put mogs under it (with a long list of other stuff obviously). After going through the design on paper I have come to the conclusion that it is much larger than I want. I really want something small, light, fun that doesn't cost a fortune and I don't have a heart attack the first time I do an endo.

Paul, talk to me more about the toy V6's? What tranny's do they have? What auto's are available? are they all interchangeable?

Michael

 

[R.DesJardin]

Micheal,
The Toy V6's come in two popular sizes the 3.0 also called the the 3.slow, this motor also had head gasket problems so bad there was a factory recall on them. If I'm not mistaken the 2.7 four has equal hp and is far more reliable.
The second V6 is the 3.4 which is a very good motor.
Toyota uses the A340 which is the same trans as the AW4. So to get one of these setups find a 4Runner or truck with the 3.4 auto setup and your set.

 

[IXNAYXJ]

So what started as a Range Rover trail limo on 49's and a blown 572 has devolved into a run of the mill Reiter Yota buggy? Say it ain't so! You went to Embry-Riddle for christ's sake, at least do something different and cool like a sideways mounted rear engine Honda buggy, or something.



-----Matt-----

 

[WaXJ_Skier]

So what started as a Range Rover trail limo on 49's and a blown 572 has devolved into a run of the mill Reiter Yota buggy? Say it ain't so! You went to Embry-Riddle for christ's sake, at least do something different and cool like a sideways mounted rear engine Honda buggy, or something.



-----Matt-----

Belt driven buggy with a Harley engine :anon:

 

[Sideshow]

You went to Embry Riddle? Me too. Prescott or Daytona?

 

[XJ_ranger]

So what started as a Range Rover trail limo on 49's and a blown 572 has devolved into a run of the mill Reiter Yota buggy? Say it ain't so! You went to Embry-Riddle for christ's sake, at least do something different and cool like a sideways mounted rear engine Honda buggy, or something.



-----Matt-----

In a few months, no one will know what Reiter is...

And honda buggies are so last year...

the cut to shit XJ with too much weight over the front axle, and not near enough power for 4D's is where its at! :doh:

 

[ECKSJAY]

You went to Embry Riddle? Me too. You want fries with that?

:anon:


eace:

 

[2xtreme]

You went to Embry Riddle? Me too. Prescott or Daytona?

Prescit

Michael

 

[Sideshow]

:anon:

eace:

Fries, and a lower rate on my student loan. Bitch :wave1:

Prescit

Michael

Yup, you were there alright.