Bubblle Balancer and Tire mounting tools?

[ChuckD]

I did do a search and read Lawn Cher's thread. How well do the Habor Freight tools work? I spent $100 dollars on a mounting and balance on my wifes tires last weekend. So I figured, why not get my own and do it myself. I could also do my Brother-in-laws tires and charge him to recoup the cost.

 

[Eagle]

I did do a search and read Lawn Cher's thread. How well do the Habor Freight tools work? I spent $100 dollars on a mounting and balance on my wifes tires last weekend. So I figured, why not get my own and do it myself. I could also do my Brother-in-laws tires and charge him to recoup the cost.

How big are the tires you want to balance?

I've had a J.C. Whitney bubble balancer for almost 40 years. It was fine for the small, skinny tires that were standard equipment on cars in the 60s. It was less effective on the wider tires (70-series and 60-series) that we ran on pony cars in the 70s. It's useless on off-road tires.

A bubble balancer can only do static balance. It can tell you if there's a heavy spot on one portion of the tire, but it can't tell you if that heavy spot in on the center plane of the tire, toward the back (inside), or toward the front (outside). You add weights in equal amounts to the inside and outside of the tire and hope that does the job. On a fairly skinny tire that's usually close enough. On the tires we typically run it usually isn't enough.

Pull a couple of your wheels and look at the way the weights are distributed. More than likely, there will be different amounts of weight on the front and the back, and the weights won't be in the same place on the periphery. There's no way you can achieve that degree of accuracy/precision using a bubble balancer. It doesn't matter how good the bubble balancer is, it simply can't do a dynamic balance.

 

[crystalship1]

Pay extra for the lifetime balance .... done deal!!!! :clap:

I did do a search and read Lawn Cher's thread. How well do the Habor Freight tools work? I spent $100 dollars on a mounting and balance on my wifes tires last weekend. So I figured, why not get my own and do it myself. I could also do my Brother-in-laws tires and charge him to recoup the cost.

 

[Bloose]

How big are the tires you want to balance?

I've had a J.C. Whitney bubble balancer for almost 40 years. It was fine for the small, skinny tires that were standard equipment on cars in the 60s. It was less effective on the wider tires (70-series and 60-series) that we ran on pony cars in the 70s. It's useless on off-road tires.

A bubble balancer can only do static balance. It can tell you if there's a heavy spot on one portion of the tire, but it can't tell you if that heavy spot in on the center plane of the tire, toward the back (inside), or toward the front (outside). You add weights in equal amounts to the inside and outside of the tire and hope that does the job. On a fairly skinny tire that's usually close enough. On the tires we typically run it usually isn't enough.

Pull a couple of your wheels and look at the way the weights are distributed. More than likely, there will be different amounts of weight on the front and the back, and the weights won't be in the same place on the periphery. There's no way you can achieve that degree of accuracy/precision using a bubble balancer. It doesn't matter how good the bubble balancer is, it simply can't do a dynamic balance.

This is somewhat interesting to me. I may have a chance to buy a Coats tire changer and if I do I was looking into getting a static balancer (bubble). The thing is when I balance the tires for my Jeep (33") I always do a static balance on the spin balancer. I then put the weight only on the inside wheel lip (not inside the rim mind you). This is because your much less likely to rip a weight off on the trail this way. I haven't noticed any ill effect from doing it this way. I know static isn't as good as dynamic but it's worked out well for me. Also, I've heard that doing a manual balance job is actually more acurate than a spin balance job but the spin balancer is much faster. This of course only applys to static balancing as there is no way I know of to manually dynamic balance. Anyway, my guess is that the bubble balancer would work fine for a static balance. If I do end up going this route I'll have to check the balance on the spin balancer one time and see where that leads.

HTH,
B-loose

 

[ChuckD]

Ok I hear what your saying Eagle, but what if i did this.

http://www.topten.org/public/BC/BC39.html

If my life in dynamically balanced then the thigns I do should be also right?

 

[Eagle]

I'd say you lucked out. In general, there is no way that putting all the weight on the inside lip should work. The wider the tires, the less this should work.

A lot depends on how fast you drive. Wheel balance problems usually show up at about 55 MPH. Until recently I've thought this to be independent of tire size, and in my experience it has been. However, with 31x10.50s the shimmy starts to show up at closer to 50, and I have a feeling that a very large, very wide tire might start to exhibit the effects of imbalance at yet slower road speeds.

For a Jeep that rarely sees highway speeds, a good static balance might be sufficient. Ditto if the tires themselves are fairly "true." But a big tire with a pronounced asymmetry simply can't be adequately balanced on a static balancing machine, bubble or spin. That calls for a machine that can address heavy spots that are off the plane or rotation ... in other words, a dynamic balancer.

 

[ChuckD]

What about the mounting tools? According to the caption, is it capable enough to handle large offroad tires, 33's and 35's x 12.50?

Change tires at a fraction of the cost! No expensive 220V power hookups or pneumatic lines. Handles all tires from 8" to light truck (7.5 x 16 and flotation tires up to size 12.5L16). Use in the shop or on the farm--you can even mount tires at the jobsite. All steel construction.

 

[Lawn Cher']

I have one of the Harbor Freight manual tire changers... it works well enough once you get the hang of it, and lubrication on the tire bead helps alot. I've done everything from stock tires up to 35's on it. If your back can handle the manual lifting part, you should be good to go. It definitely needs to be rigidly mounted, BTW. I don't recommend it for pretty rims, either.

 

[ChuckD]

I have one of the Harbor Freight manual tire changers... it works well enough once you get the hang of it, and lubrication on the tire bead helps alot. I've done everything from stock tires up to 35's on it. If your back can handle the manual lifting part, you should be good to go. It definitely needs to be rigidly mounted, BTW. I don't recommend it for pretty rims, either.

Thanks LC, maybe I can save on the whole mounting and balancing costs by at least mounting them myself.

It seems to me there have been a ton of used tires forsale.

 

[Lawn Cher']

Yeah, and I just found this...

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/tle.gsp

It mentions lifetime rotation & balancing for $7.50 per tire... sounds like a good deal to me once you mount them yourself.

 

[ChuckD]

Those look like good deals, In Fresno it is a bit hard to find a good tire shop or trust Wallyworld. I had a buddy with his own garge, but he had to move on to a BMW dealer, too much overhead.

 

[Matthew Currie]

I guess I'll weigh in on this. The theoretical advantage of a good dynamic balancing job is sometimes outweighed by sloppy work. I've seen tire shops spin balance a wheel without even cleaning the mud out. How can you get accurate balance to the half ounce with half a pound of mud and gravel packed into the rim?

I've had pretty good luck doing static balancing but it varies from car to car. My old Mercedes doesn't mind it, and I'm usually using yard sale and junkyard tires which cost less than a balance job to begin with. I'd be less inclined to do it with expensive new tires, and less inclined on the XJ which is pretty sensitive. Serious static imbalance will cause tire wear. It also depends on the tires. I once mounted a set of 4 Michelin XVS tires and three of them required NO balancing at all. The fourth took about an ounce.

The trick to a good static balancing job is to spread the weight so that at least it doesn't make the dynamic balance worse. Static imbalance always resolves to a single spot at which one can put a weight. But it works best if you divide that weight in half and put half on each edge of the rim. If standard weights don't quite match the imbalance, you can take a pair of weights that add up to just a little more than the needed weight, and straddle the spot until it balances. Then divide each of those weights in half and put half on each edge, for a total of 4 weights.

As far as tire tools go, the main thing you need is a bead breaker. Once the bead is popped, two irons and a big hammer in the hands of a skilled backyard bricoleur can compete favorably with a tire machine. I learned on old Peugeot wheels, which had a solid center so they didn't fit on any tire machines. Once you have the technique, it's very quick and easy, but hard on the operator's back.

You'll also need a pretty good volume of air to seat tubeless beads. Some tires can be a real [your nasty word choice here] to get seated.

 

[Matthew Currie]

Above, I realize I said serious static imbalance will cause tire wear (which is true too) but meant to say dynamic imbalance, which can cause tread nibbling and cupping.