Blending your own gasoline?

[krakhedd]

I've been searching hi and lo on the Internet for days now. I am obsessed with blending my own gasoline, but don't know where to start. Can I buy non-RFG from a local refinery or are there federal/state laws against this? Is there a source, domestic or otherwise, I can source some gasoline from, that skirts any laws/other problems I may run into, or would I have to purchase something on the order of several thousand gallons for any such deal?

Anybody know any other way I can legally do this? My ultimate goal is maximum BTUs, resulting in maximum efficiency as per my current setup......thanks!

 

[JohnX]

Last time I looked BTU's were an inverse proportion to octane level...

87= xxxxxxx BTU's
91= xxxxx BTU's

So in order to increase heat production, you much destablize the gas...therefor causing detonation.

DON"T QUOTE ME ON IT...I"M TRYIN TO REMEBER FROM HIGHSCHOOL TEN YEARS AGO.

 

[5-90]

Additives and blends are typically controlled (within ranges, of course. Present a lawmaker with anything technical and he goes blank...)

Also, octane is a measure of RESISTANCE to ignition/detonation - the higher the octane rating of the fuel, the harder it is to light. That's why you have to use higher octane with higher compression or forced induction - the increased base cylinder temperature (due to increased gas compression) can become high enough to autoignite the fuel and cause trouble.

SAE has a couple good books on the subject of blending fuels - check with your library, or the library at a nearby university (that's how I find the really good stuff...)

5-90

 

[bajacalal]

Inversely proportional?

Maybe 5-90 can enlighten us with this one. It wouldn't make sense to me. Diesel, for example has more BTUs per volume than gasoline but its harder to ignite so would have a "higher octane rating" in theory anyway Would this be a higher "research octane"? Alcolhol has fewer BTUs per volume than primary components of gasoline but its harder to ignite. It raises the "octane rating" but provides less energy (less power, fewer mpgs) than straight gasoline.

So is "octane rating" completely unrelated to how many BTUs a substance produces?

 

[5-90]

"research octane" and "motor octane" are two different animals - I'd have to look up the difference. The octane number you see on the pump is an average of the two.

"Octane" is derived from the difficulty in lighting the fuel - pure octane (a straight- or branched-chain hydrocarbon, C8H18) = 100. Pure hexane (another hydrocarbon - C6H14) = 0. Mixing them by percentages generates the reference scale for gasoline octane ratings (and gasoline is actually a combination of paraffinoids and aromatic esters.)

Diesel is a different fraction, and its ratings are derived from another pure hydrocarbon called "cetane" (C16H34) = 100, and a derived compound called alpha methyl napthalene = 0 (Napthalene is a derivative of Benzene - a pair of benzene rings side-by-side. The alpha-methyl part means that one of the perimeter hydrogen atoms is replaced by a methyl - CH3 - group.) Diesel is not a paraffinoid, it is actually an oil (hence, "Diesel oil" or "fuel oil,") and runs through a different combustion process. Diesel will not spark ignite, and I've seen roads flares roll into the stuff with no more effect than if it had been water. Try that with gasoline!

Octane rating really doesn't have anything to do with fuel content - a more useful specification for that is "energy content" - which is BTU potential per unit mass of fuel. Alcohol may have a lower energy content, but it also runs at a much richer stoichiometric ratio due to the oxygen bound into the fuel (nitromethane can run even richer!) Therefore, you can make more power with a properly-tuned alcohol engine, since you're wedging more energy into the cylinder - but you're burning more fuel doing it.

Of course, there are the "superfuels" - namely, AvGas (jet fuel is highly refined Kerosene, and is closer to Diesel fuel.) With an octane rating over 100, it's obvious that there's something going on there - and it's done by blending paraffinoids and combustion inhibitors.

Like I said, SAE has a number of good books on the subject (a little dry, but worth reading if you're really interested) and there's a "Gasoline FAQ" out there - I might have an Archival copy of it around here, but I won't swear to it right at the moment...

5-90

 

[MudDawg]

While you may get your hands on base stock...there is no way you will get your hands on most of the additives you need...but why bother other than being able to say you did it....if it'll run on Quickie Mart regular...use it...if you actually need high octane....go to the speed shop or track an get yerself a 5 gallon drum of VP C-20.....if that ain't enuff, you have a hand grenade under the hood anyway.

Yes it is true that the higher the octane number the lower the BTU per pound. Yes a motor will provide the highest output when using the lowest octane number it will tolerate without detonation.

 

[JohnX]

Yes it is true that the higher the octane number the lower the BTU per pound. Yes a motor will provide the highest output when using the lowest octane number it will tolerate without detonation.

Thats what I thought....thanks for letting me know i don't have my head too far up there yet.

 

[krakhedd]

While you may get your hands on base stock...there is no way you will get your hands on most of the additives you need...but why bother other than being able to say you did it....if it'll run on Quickie Mart regular...use it...if you actually need high octane....go to the speed shop or track an get yerself a 5 gallon drum of VP C-20.....if that ain't enuff, you have a hand grenade under the hood anyway.

Yes it is true that the higher the octane number the lower the BTU per pound. Yes a motor will provide the highest output when using the lowest octane number it will tolerate without detonation.

What additives would I need, that I couldn't find? Are these things I could not synthesize on my own (using rudimentary lab supplies), given other chemicals to start with?

I am sick of being broke because fuel costs so f****** much. F****** Katrina is going to send gas >$5/gallon. God Bless New Orleans and the South.

 

[saki669]

What additives would I need, that I couldn't find? Are these things I could not synthesize on my own (using rudimentary lab supplies), given other chemicals to start with?

I am sick of being broke because fuel costs so f****** much. F****** Katrina is going to send gas >$5/gallon. God Bless New Orleans and the South.

You could start by using some of the spare capacity of your meth "refinery" in the back shed...
Let us know how it comes out.

 

[bajacalal]

What additives would I need, that I couldn't find? Are these things I could not synthesize on my own (using rudimentary lab supplies), given other chemicals to start with?

I am sick of being broke because fuel costs so f****** much. F****** Katrina is going to send gas >$5/gallon. God Bless New Orleans and the South.

What about aftermarket "additive boosters" for gasoline.

Anyway, what I'd like to know and I've said this before, is why can't people buy gas in bulk anymore and store it like they used to. Both my grandparents
(and parents for a time) did this and it was very feasable if you lived in a less than urban area. My grandpa he still has the tank in his basement. He would call a company to come out and fill the 1000 gal. tank and this was enough for the season. The prices were closer to wholesale ones they billed you retroactively and I believe you could pay it off monthly.

The gas expense was lower, since you bought larger amounts and was more stable since you bought gas when the price was low and you were able to completely avoid buying gas during periods like labor day when gas prices spike.

So why isin't this going on anymore?

BTW: I've thought about getting a 500 gal trailer tank to buy gas in Arizona. There was a time when the price differences between here in Southern California and AZ were large (40+ cents) so it would be feasable and cost effective but now prices everywhere seem to have caught up with So Cal.

 

[MudDawg]

I don't know about where you are....but locally a couple of years ago a friend of mine that owns a marina decided to install a fuel pump to make some extra cash....in researching it, after the permits, and containment, and and and...he was looking at 50K not including the required insurance...completely unfeasable....In the old days before environmental nazis...you could just buy a old tanker and set it up...so what if it leaked and the frogs ended up with 3 eyes and the land got sterilized...

If you dig long enough, you will most likely be able to find out what is in gasoline....just remember this....the chemicals can be deadly if you are exposed....not take a breath and fall over dead deadly most likely...but lingering getting eaten up from the inside out slowly deadly...almost everything in gasoline is carcinogenic.

 

[krakhedd]

That explains why it tastes so good!

Anyway...being that we're on the border with Canadia here, there are a lot of local refineries. I'm going to see if I can find a phone number for somebody there, and see about acquiring some gasoline wholesale. I'll let you guys know what I find out. The enviro-nazis are almost as bad here as in Cali (gas prices are now in excess of what they were in SoCal last summer), so who knows how illegal it is. F*** them, they are infringing upon my rights, and incurring undue expense/maintenance with all the crap (MTBEs, ethanol, etc.) they put in gas nowadays.

Gotta love how they claim that adding this crap - which, in turn, results in burning more - actually helps the situation. There IS a point at which their stupidity ceases, right? Maybe not - I don't see Democrats or Liberals getting any smarter, or wiser. (Republicans just make money off of you for what they do - the Left tends to go tree-humping)

Oh yeah....I'm not constructing 8" nuclear rounds to be shot from Atomic Betty, either...but that's a hella cool pic (Atomic Betty was the cannon the Army constructed so they could have control over the nation's atomic weapons, by constructing a viable delivery method - obviously, the USAF won that round)

 

[saki669]

....they are infringing upon my rights,

I wasnt aware of a "right to blend my own gas".


Why don't you just rent a tanker ship and go fill it up with .12/gallon Venezuelan gas. Think of the profits.....


You need to get out more. hasta

 

[JohnX]

There IS a point at which their stupidity ceases, right?

Where is your point?

I almost thought this was a serious thread, but now...

who cares.

 

[krakhedd]

I'm sorry I have an issue with the price of gasoline, my lack of funds, and all the extra crap they put in gasoline that makes it less efficient and (generally) worse on my motor.

 

[bajacalal]

Of couse you should have a right to blend youre own gas. Its youre own property isin't it. Seriously, gasoline is pretty much all the same until different companies add a small bit of their additives which aren't that different anyway. Why can't you start a gas mixing buiness, there are companies that mix racing fuel and small chains of stations, why is this such a difficult industry to break into if the product is pretty much a commodity?

 

[roXJeepr]

I'm sorry I have an issue with the price of gasoline, my lack of funds, and all the extra crap they put in gasoline that makes it less efficient and (generally) worse on my motor.

I share your pain. Thank you for not being a sheep. While other ppl sit around and watch prices go up up up and just say 'oh well, deal with it', I say bullzhit! WHY should we have to pay $5/gal when the iraqis are only paying 5 CENTS/gal. I mean come on liberals, isn't that why we went over there in the first place? to take the oil? Well I say we go ahead and take it... at least some of it. And while we're at it, lets teach them to vote democrat and take away their land rights and right to bear arms and most of their other rights as humans also. I hate to rant... why did I have to read this thread.

 

[Bloose]

WHY should we have to pay $5/gal when the iraqis are only paying 5 CENTS/gal. I mean come on liberals, isn't that why we went over there in the first place? to take the oil?

Since when did "liberals" have anything to do with the current fuel prices????? Seems to me fuel has been going up up up while there is a, gasp, conservative in office (who's family is rich from petroleum)!!!! I guess this comment is just some persons way of draging their politics into everything, even the thought of saving a few bucks on gas.

Anyway, back to the original post,

I seriously doubt, but don't know for sure, you could save one red cent mixing up your own gasoline. When you look at the huge volume these guys deal in it is unlikely you could buy the raw materials for any where near what they do. It's a semi cool idea, and the research would likely serve to increase you knowledge of fuel, but I doubt you would save any money. Look at it this way, do you really think with the WWW no one ever thought to try this before? Not that everything has been tryed or thought of, but at $3+ a gallon I'm sure people have given it some thought.

Just look at Bio Diesel, which brings up a point,

Want to save a few $$$ on fuel. Buy a diesel and mix up your own blend of Bio Diesel. Lots of info on the web. But this is a good example. If you get the largest part of the raw materials for free (vegtable oil) you can make the fuel for close to the cost of just buying regular diesel. But you're still not going to save $2 a gallon. Running it is a small savings to your pocket book and a large savings to the enviroment, so the inconvenence is worth it to some. Plus if you buy a VW TDI you will get around 45mpg or more and the bite of $3/gal won't sting as much. BTW, Fuel here in SE/WI hit 2.99 a gallon today but Diesel was "only" $2.75. If you do come up with any info be sure to share it.

B-loose

 

[JohnX]

Fuel here in SE/WI hit 2.99 a gallon today but Diesel was "only" $2.75. If you do come up with any info be sure to share it.

B-loose

Kind of weird...just the opposite here.

Diesel has been well over $3 for several weeks, while gas just hit $3 in the last couple days. Must just be Cali?

 

[2xtreme]

I'm sorry I have an issue with the price of gasoline, my lack of funds, and all the extra crap they put in gasoline that makes it less efficient and (generally) worse on my motor.

Maybe your "Issue" stems from your lack of understanding the entire story/picture/process. Not being negative, but usually this is the case.

I thought this started as a good thread also but am now not so sure!!

A couple of thoughts:
1. Most farms in my area still purchase fuel in bulk and store it in tanks. I also have relatives that purchase it in the same way. Not expensive.

2. You can purchase aviation fuel or racing fuel reasonably easy that might get you what you want as an alternative.

3. We still pay less for gasoline that almost anywhere else in the world, still use way too much of it, and expect it to last forever.

4. Maybe you should consider how much driving you do, instead of how much you pay for gas?

Michael