balistic fab

[XJ_ranger]

you mean that pictures of Solid Works brackets dont always come out excatly the way you meant for them too?

you mean that their CNC Plasma has a 20* taper on 3/16" material?

you mean that CNC Plasma and the word "precision" shouldnt be in the same scentence?

you mean hand punched and not jig aligned in an ironworker isnt exact?

you mean that their part layout isnt the way that you would actually want to weld the pieces for the strongest penetration?

this looks fermiliar...

maybe ive just been spoiled by spending too much time on the phone with the waterjetter this summer...


Advanced Fab brackets are made by 'clicking' - not grinding...

 

[Captain Ron]

you mean that pictures of Solid Works brackets dont always come out excatly the way you meant for them too?
...

Sheeesh. Give a guy a 3D CAD package, and a 2D part...

Compound bends, joints, twisted planes and radial matches. 2D for me.

You are starting to do some nice work kiddo. Of course, now you are starting to become one of those asses that bags on the normal accepted hack work that defines off road fabrication .

You're welcome.

--ron

(oops, sorry! didnt change anything... )

 

[XJ_ranger]

...

Of course, now you are starting to become one of those asses...

...

You're welcome.

Beer Snob, Boat Snob, Metal Fabrication Snob...

I just hope that I dont decide that I need to start flying... :gag:

 

[Capt. Nemo]

Beer Snob, Boat Snob, Metal Fabrication Snob...

I just hope that I dont decide that I need to start flying... :gag:

Flyboys with that attitude either wind up dead, or have a close enough call to have their attitudes re-arranged...

 

[Weasel]

so what the point? Looks like standard 4x4 parts to me?

 

[XJ_ranger]

so what the point? Looks like standard 4x4 parts to me?

you know how when you were working on the mini baja, and you needed a bracket, you just torched one out, drilled a hole with a drill bit, and ground it to fit?

If you're paying for brackets and parts - should they be made the same way?

 

[Capt. Nemo]

you know how when you were working on the mini baja, and you needed a bracket, you just torched one out, drilled a hole with a drill bit, and ground it to fit?

If you're paying for brackets and parts - should they be made the same way?

This isn't NASA, and we aren't rocket scientists. In relation to suspension bracketry, the parts we need for our rigs to operate correctly don't need to look like they came off of the space shuttle. In addition, we're talking about brackets here, not engine parts that need to be machined to specific tolerances. Now, if a company is advertising a certain quality and not meeting their claims, that's a different matter altogether.

The way I see it, Ballistic Fab is offering a product to help the DIYers of the off road community at a reasonable price. They may not be up to the standards that Ron has set over at his place, but I don't see Ron offering anything to help out the off road community AS A WHOLE. Ron can put Ballistic's product down all he wants - it's his prerogative - but until he starts mass producing product he's out of his league.

 

[Phil]

This isn't NASA, and we aren't rocket scientists. In relation to suspension bracketry, the parts we need for our rigs to operate correctly don't need to look like they came off of the space shuttle. In addition, we're talking about brackets here, not engine parts that need to be machined to specific tolerances. Now, if a company is advertising a certain quality and not meeting their claims, that's a different matter altogether.

The way I see it, Ballistic Fab is offering a product to help the DIYers of the off road community at a reasonable price. They may not be up to the standards that Ron has set over at his place, but I don't see Ron offering anything to help out the off road community AS A WHOLE. Ron can put Ballistic's product down all he wants - it's his prerogative - but until he starts mass producing product he's out of his league.

Ballistic Fab is not trying to help anyone - or at least, they shouldn't be, as a business. Unfortunately, how many of these cheap DIYers (see "hoodtastic doubler kit" and "chop top write up") would be willing to put down the money for the increased quality that a real manufacturing facility can put out? In order for Ballistic to get into the market, they need a product that is "good enough" and as cheap as anything else.

Now, when I buy something, I DO want it to look like it could go on a space shuttle. I can half-ass it myself, I want to buy first rate parts. Some people may be happy with the cheap solution - think fullwidth axles on stock shafts. Some people put a little more effort in, don't you?

 

[Weasel]

you know how when you were working on the mini baja, and you needed a bracket, you just torched one out, drilled a hole with a drill bit, and ground it to fit?

If you're paying for brackets and parts - should they be made the same way?

Yeah I don't know. I can see your point but I don't see anyone really offering anything different. If people are willing to pay for them and are happy with them then whats the deal? In the end the only person you have to satisfy is the guy buying the parts.

And our Mini Baja tabs are all CNC plasma cut, sheared, or made with a sheetmetal brake/shear.

Will I buy them, probably not but I don't really care for how half this stuff is made and will make my own. Like punching the shape and holes from sheetmetal, breaking the part to shape, then heat treating or heat treating after weld for the best in strength.

 

[Capt. Nemo]

Now, when I buy something, I DO want it to look like it could go on a space shuttle. I can half-ass it myself, I want to buy first rate parts. Some people may be happy with the cheap solution - think fullwidth axles on stock shafts. Some people put a little more effort in, don't you?

I agree with you here, which can basically be summed up in "you get what you pay for". Most of the people ordering from Ballistic are satisfied with "good enough" because it's cheap as compared to the time it would take them to make it themselves. Others are wanting perfection, in which case you wouldn't even bother looking to Ballistic for parts - you'd pay for one off stuff.

I guess what I'm confused about is what's in it for Ron to put down a company and their product - especially after people are using it and it works (albeit with some extra effort at times). If people are asking for an opinion, that's one thing, but with the attitude that comes across I wouldn't take Ron's stuff if it was given to me.

 

[Captain Ron]

...
but I don't see Ron offering anything to help out the off road community AS A WHOLE. Ron can put Ballistic's product down all he wants - it's his prerogative - but until he starts mass producing product he's out of his league.

Mass producing and out of my league.

You don't even know what you are talking about. Before making completely false statements, you need to see what I do. If your idea about business and fabrication is in any way related to Jeep stuff, you sir, are clueless.

Now, I can take your wanting to take me down a notch, no problem, have at it.

I will draw the line at you insinuating that I have done nothing to help out the offroad community "AS A WHOLE", as you put it. I guess it was coming at some point. Doesn't make it any easier to take. From now on, I'll just send all the inquires and requests to you. I'm done.

--ron

 

[RCman]

I agree with you here, which can basically be summed up in "you get what you pay for". Most of the people ordering from Ballistic are satisfied with "good enough" because it's cheap as compared to the time it would take them to make it themselves. Others are wanting perfection, in which case you wouldn't even bother looking to Ballistic for parts - you'd pay for one off stuff.

Well I posted here about being interested in the brackets before all this semi-bashing started. Let me just say after looking deeper into it, I steered away from Ballistic and went with another vendor (T&T) for a few reasons. Some of those you just touched on, the others I'll keep those reasons to myself as it's not my style to bash other peoples work.

How about a show of hands. How many out there really want to endure me posting stuff that's way out of the realm of even most high end suppliers?

I have not done this, for the most part, because most folks wouldn't be able to apply 90% of it, and it seems to me that I'd just be showing off.

I WOULD. I love seeing what others are capable of making. Heck, I'd have made my brackets/truss setup for my HPD60 build if I'd had the time and tallent (got/have access to all tools). I know for one thing that I will be taking the time to fabricate my own mounts and parts for the entire rear suspension as that's getting back-halfed and linked. So there's no one making parts like that, plus I'd rather take my time and do it myself for the pride and satisfaction.

Which sorta brings me back to the front situation, if I'd have taken the time to build everything for the front while reinventing the wheel that others have done, I'd never get this project done.

I will say that if the parts that I'll be making for the rear of my rig look anything like those parts Scrappy posted, they'll be a lot of that pride and satisfaction I mentioned above. :worship:

So Captain Ron, if you don't want to post them off for fear of 'showing off' (isn't that what the entire point of anyone's buildup thread is about?). PM or email them to me, I'd be glad to see them.

you know how when you were working on the mini baja, and you needed a bracket, you just torched one out, drilled a hole with a drill bit, and ground it to fit?

If you're paying for brackets and parts - should they be made the same way?

One word: No.

 

[Skullver]

so what is the point of seeing your nifty pictures in here?? Are they available to purchase? Are they affordable and attainable? Or are they just nifty pictures showing how awesome you guys are because you have some 3d software and a phone to call the waterjetter? I don't really care either way bit it is a bit sad how arrogant you guys are coming off as, this posting was about trying to get some parts for a guys build and I don't really see any offers of assistance, just some hahah, you guys are pathetic because you don't have access to the stuff I do, haha, you guys have to buy junk parts, etc etc.

Whatever, sounds a lot like pimping your stuff, yet without actually having anything to pimp from my standpoint, unless you have some sort of inventory or link to buy.

Now I appreciate good craftsmanship just as much as the next guy and your work does seem to be top-notch from what I can tell from the pictures, but I also would rather have some low tech bracketry than space shuttle grade(?)that come with a heaping side of attitude.

That being said, if you had another thread in here showing some examples of your work, that would be really cool, I truly enjoy seeing what a very skilled guy can do with metal, it is much like art in a way. I have no problems with people showing off their work, it is good for comparison and future ideas.

 

[Ballistic]

These are the prototypes for the XJ / TJ axle brackets, for use with any one of our lower link axle brackets on our webpage.

 

[Ballistic]

 

[Ballistic]

 

[Matt S.]

Hey Jeff! Those look pretty good! They sure do look alot better on screen.

Matt

 

[Ballistic]

As for our fabrication skills for one off parts we have capabilities as well, but simply put, I can't move the quantity of brackets that I do if they cost 3 times as much as our regularly stocked items. We do lots of one-off parts for customers but they pay a shop rate fee and those brackets won't work for anyone else. The brackets we sell on a daily basis are easy enough for the general fabricator to modify and "make work" and a universal bracket.

Here is a bit of our one-off work -

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=558164

 

[Ballistic]

We are going to try an inroductory price of $85 / pair with the lower link brackets included. The lower link brackets will be available with a 0* , 5* or 10* offset and have mounting widths of either 2.63" or 3" (for use with our 3.0" ballistic joint)... These will be added to our webpage tomorrow morning, so if anyone has questions please contact us through our webpage or via email... (since I probably won't be checking PMs here on a daily basis.)...

For those of you that are wondering if we have vendor status with , it's in the works. Thanks for everyone's support and we plan to continue working with everyone to develop a product line that is afforable as well and effective.

-Jeff

 

[Ballistic]

http://ballisticfabrication.3dcartstores.com/XJ--TJ-Jeep-combo-bracket-upgrade-kit_p_0-1542.html