Bad Fan Clutch? Sounds like a belt, but it's not.

[PhotographerMike]

The Jeep; 1989 I6, Auto trans., 165k miles, rebuilt engine 2 years, 1200 miles ago (YES only 50 miles a month). Just bought it.

I think the FAN CLUTCH may be going out. After the Jeep heats up some there is a high pitched squeal, that I can't pin point even with a mechanics stethascope, that sounds like a loose belt.
Starts out slowly with a "chirp . . chirp . . chirp" and as time goes by and the engine warms up, it becomes a steady screech that varies with engine speed. Idle, out of gear (1000 rpm) chirp and light squeal. Idle in gear (700 rpm) almost quiet.
When I drive it warmed up, it squeals loudly under acceleration and gets quickly quieter when I let off the gas, just like a SLIPPING BELT sound.

BUT, the belt is tight enough (and newer and retightened). I thought it might be the water pump or idler pulley, so I replaced them both, NO change.
Next I squirted some oil on the (not working) A.C. Clutch and Power Steering shafts. THE SOUND WENT AWAY!!

For a day or two . . .

The squeal is back and I don't want to replace more than necessary.

I searched "fan clutch noise" but this type of noise / problem doesn't seem to come up.

Thanks, Mike

 

[turbojoe]

Mine does the exact same thing you're describing, but only when I turn the A/C on.
I sincerely doubt that the fan clutch is the problem. I'm thinking it's either the A/C compressor (though you already stated that yours doesn't work, so I doubt that) or the alternator due to too much load.
IMO, definitely not the fan clutch.

 

[johnnyc]

Mike,

Could be the harmonic balancer. Check it to see if the rubber is starting to separate.

 

[avnsteve]

you had squealing, you oiled the ac clutch and it stopped?

why have you not assumed the ac clutch is out?

 

[PhotographerMike]

I'm back,

xjohnnyc; "Could be the harmonic balancer."
A; Just checked, it was replaced with the $3600- (not my $$!!) engine rebuild.

avnsteve; "you had squealing, you oiled the ac clutch and it stopped?
why have you not assumed the ac clutch is out?"
A; "The squeal is back . . " I oiled, I cleaned, I re-oiled, I re-cleaned, I gave up (for now).

turbojoe; ". . or the alternator due to too much load."
A; squeal not present with cold start and when the alternator is "loaded" it doesn't change.

Thanks for the suggestions!

++++++++++ O.K., Here is why I think it might be the Fan Clutch and why. +++++++++++

Much of my info is from reading other threads.
Fan clutches have a definite life time and don't like to "sit" for years.
When cool the clutch should almost "free wheel" and as the clutch fluid warms up the fan catches up to engine speed, but can spin free if there is enough resistance. Ex: hit deep water and the fan will slip saving your . .
My "squeal" is not present until the engine / fan clutch warms up.
I don't remember many laws of physics, but an object in motion wants to keep moving at the same speed, hence;
There is a slight "lag" in the sound as I rev and slow the engine speed making me think that the problem is not rigidly / directly connected to the engine like the harmonic balancer.
Yes the belt is tight (and if this ends up being the belt . . . ). No big squeal with quick throttle that goes away when the accessories catch up to speed.
So I will probably be shopping for a new fan clutch (F.Y.I., dealer list $195- http://allchrysler.com $120-).

Any other ideas before I go out for an early Fathers Day dinner?

I will post the conclusion to this little saga.

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[ptf18]

Im having and doing the same thing as you. Your chirp to sqeul sounds the same. Ive replaced the belt 2x, the W P, the ideler bearing and now the a/c bracket with the fan hub/shaft assembly.....

Still have the chrip to squel....

keep me posted.

 

[GreenXJ2K]

My fan was doing the same thing after it warmed up. No need to go to the dealer or even pay 120. I picked up a new clutch fan for 40 at my local advanced auto, pepboys etc.

 

[PhotographerMike]

Still looking.

ptf18 ; " . . . and now the a/c bracket with the fan hub/shaft assembly....."
A; Not something I want to do, but the shaft does seem to have a bit of slop.

GreenXJ2K; "No need to go to the dealer or even pay 120."
A; Got one at NAPA for $45-, http://allchrysler.com has good prices for a dealer, you might tell them sent you.

ADDED NOTE; The fan clutch I removed was the elusive G.M. part (GM, Chevy for search)
I can't read the numbers on the front, but the back says; Delco product div., Dayton Ohio USA, GMC 8952003205

++++++++++++ I was wrong about the fan clutch . . . +++++++++++++

And I only broke the very top part off the fan shroud making it easier to work on next time . . .

I just can't localize the high pitched squeal, so I do the next best thing and replace parts.

NEXT; After I came back from my test drive I emptied most of a can of brake cleaner cleaning out the A.C. clutch.
Since the air isn't working at all when I turn it on (next job for my "new" car, it's black, it's almost summer and we live in So. Cal.), the pulley just spins and the compressor doesn't.

Question; Is there a quick and dirty electrical way to lock the Air Conditioner Clutch on to either find the noise or eliminate another possible source?
Another Q.: Does the Power Steering Pump shaft bearing ever go out (remember the car sat for years) without affecting the steering? Mines fine in use, no noise when steering.

Back to you,
Mike

 

[PhotographerMike]

Todays update; The squeal and chirps are still there! Almost sounds like metal to metal contact.

I replaced the fan clutch, my wife asked if it was a difficult job and I pointed out the Chry. 8.25 axle, S10 springs, G.C. coils stashed around the yard . . .

I warmed up the engine until the neighbor closed her window because of the screech and checked the A.C. clutch by touching the clutch lead to the battery. Clutch works fine and so does the screech (no change at all).

What is left?
The rusty alternator could use replacing as the output voltage is a bit low, but there is no change in the noise when I "load" it by turning on the lights and radio.

Bracket with bearings that hold the fan, I'll try to squirt some oil at it and see what happens. Really don't want to change it because of the location and expense. And, thanks to , I know it may not be the problem.

Power Steering pump bearing could be dry from sitting, can it be lubed?

The Goodyear "Gatorback" belt has less than 1500 miles on it, but is over two years old, could that be it?
How to check? Squirt with water (cool things down and the noise goes away though)? Spray with silicone or brake fluid (read it here)?

I'll keep you posted, there aren't many spinning parts left.

Mike

 

[mattbred]

I had the same problem. When it warmed up, I got a very loud droning sound (not quite a screetch).

I squirted the hell out of all my idlers with WD40 and it hasn't come back since.

Edit: I just re-read your post and I see that you replaced an idler. Still, try squirting all rotating things with WD40.. Otherwise I'm not sure.

Perhaps your belt isn't a very good quality one? If you run out of options, buy a new one from NAPA. I believe the ones from autozone and such are crap compared to NAPA's. Just a thought.

 

[jsolorza]

you say metal to metal, any antifreeze leaks could be the water pump.

 

[ptf18]

My CHIRPPING belt noise returned this morning on my way to work. I brought the XJ home and used my other car.

I REALLY looked close at the belt alignment tonight while the XJ was running. It appears tha the PS pulley is out of wack and what I think is causing the noise is......

The belt being dragged across the non-grooved pulley (not in direction of rotation but rather side to side across the noon grooved pulley). Its probabbly the WP pulley. Sort of like dragging a tight rubber band being dragged across something. I looks like the PS pulley is the cause.

If I spray belt dressing on the belt it really howls...because ...if my line of thought is correct....the belt is really "chattering" across the WP (non groovedd ) pulley.

On the other hand if I silicone spray the belt i quiets right down...for awhile...as the belt is "sliding" across the same pulley.

i think there is a Jeep bulletin out about the correct installation of the pulley onto the PS Pump. I replace the pump, used the old pulley though and had AutoZone do the work...but that was y3-4 years ago.

Back to work...

 

[corbinafly]

Mike, check that new NAPA fan clutch in a couple weeks. I bet that it will be leaking. I went through 2 of those before going with a factory unit. No leaks since and running cooler to boot.

Kyung

Check if your harmonic balancer is separating and rubbing against the timing cover. If that's not it, I say it's the belt. Maybe your belt or one of your pulleys is glazed over from slipping for so long...???

 

[PhotographerMike]

Oops, see below.

 

[PhotographerMike]

My CHIRPPING belt noise returned this morning on my way to work. If I spray belt dressing on the belt it really howls...
On the other hand if I silicone spray the belt i quiets right down...for awhile...as the belt is "sliding" across the same pulley..

AND

Check if your harmonic balancer is separating and rubbing against the timing cover. (It's fine, been replaced, I looked.)
If that's not it, I say it's the belt. Maybe your belt or one of your pulleys is glazed over from slipping for so long...???
Kyung

Had some fun tonight with a bottle of water and can of WD-40.
Let the car warm up until I could hear the squeal from inside the house, went outside and carefully watered the belt here and there. The squeal got worse, changed pitch and followed the water trail around the pulleys.
Next I carefully squirted a small amount of WD40 of the smooth side of the belt where it goes over the power steering pump. The squeal WENT AWAY. For a short time, and came right back when I added water. I did it a few more times just to be sure.

Tomorrow I will go by NAPA and check out their belts and while I have the glazed/old/inferior belt off I will lightly sand all the smooth pulleys and see what happens.

Thanks for your help everyone, it's good to know I'm not alone with my Cherokee "problems",
Mike

 

[johnnyc]

Check if your harmonic balancer is separating and rubbing against the timing cover. If that's not it, I say it's the belt. Maybe your belt or one of your pulleys is glazed over from slipping for so long...???

Metal on metal sound? I also mentioned the harmonic balancer above. And I know that you said that it was replaced when the engine was rebuilt. But Mike, have you actually visually inspected the harmonic balancer?

And I have a brand new fan shroud that you can have. I'll bring it to the next M&G.

 

[PhotographerMike]

. . . I also mentioned the harmonic balancer above. But Mike, have you actually visually inspected the harmonic balancer?

And I have a brand new fan shroud that you can have. I'll bring it to the next M&G.

I know my Jeep that sits low. But, yes I did crawl under and look and touch and . . . , I just can't sit up and do inspections and like some of you.

Save the shroud for someone else, mine still has both upper screw tabs, so I think I'll just mount an upper half over what I have, besides I can't figure an easy way to get a complete one mounted.

Thanks again

 

[corbinafly]

AND

Had some fun tonight with a bottle of water and can of WD-40.
Let the car warm up until I could hear the squeal from inside the house, went outside and carefully watered the belt here and there. The squeal got worse, changed pitch and followed the water trail around the pulleys.
Next I carefully squirted a small amount of WD40 of the smooth side of the belt where it goes over the power steering pump. The squeal WENT AWAY. For a short time, and came right back when I added water. I did it a few more times just to be sure.

Tomorrow I will go by NAPA and check out their belts and while I have the glazed/old/inferior belt off I will lightly sand all the smooth pulleys and see what happens.

Thanks for your help everyone, it's good to know I'm not alone with my Cherokee "problems",
Mike

Good idea. Let us know what happens. Also I find that MOST people do not tighten the belt enough. I'd pick up a Krikit 2 from Napa as well to be sure that you have the belt tight enough. I think they're about $13 or so.

Kyung

 

[PhotographerMike]

Re: Bad Fan Clutch? Sounds like a belt, but it's not. YES IT IS!!

Good idea. Let us know what happens. Also I find that MOST people do not tighten the belt enough. I'd pick up a Krikit 2 from Napa as well to be sure that you have the belt tight enough. I think they're about $13 or so.

Kyung

I think it's FIXED!

I changed the belt, lightly sanded the smooth pulleys, checked the belt tension with my brand new Krikit 2 from NAPA (hoping for something a bit bigger, but it works) and NO MORE SQUEAL.

So, what have I learned; The "new" fan belt may have been on the Cherokee for 2+ years and not so new after all.
I tightened the belt until there was no adjustment left, and I still had a hard to find noise, so I did what you do when the noise won't go away.
I started replacing things, first the water pump and idler pulley, no change. I oiled the power steering bearing and fan clutch, squeal went away for a short time (must have gotten some oil on the belt) then came back.
Next I replaced the fan clutch with a new NAPA unit and picked up a used A.C. with a nicely spinning clutch at the junk yard for later use if needed (it was half price day, I couldn't help myself), no change, still chirps and squeals.
Next, and before I spent any more $, I poured some water around and squirted some WD40, sound came and went on command, yes it just might be the belt after all.

Guess what? I was WRONG it really was the belt!

Thanks fellow members and users, I'd still be replacing parts without your help.

Mike

P.S. Need some spare parts . . .

 

[corbinafly]

Glad you finally got it.

Kyung