axle virgin needs help

[Ben824]

carrier/pinion bearing puller (not necessary, but nice) $349+

pinion depth tool (not "really" necessary, but EXTREMELY helpfull when starting with an empty housing) $329+

axle housing spreader (also not necessary, but makes for a cleaner and more quaranteed install) $249+

dial indicator w/mount (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not setup gears without one of these) $50-150+

inch LB torque wrench (try to find one starting at 10in lb, and goes in smallest increments possible) $50-300 (depending on brand)+

yoke torque tool (mostly required for axles with crush sleeves like low pinion D30's, but overall a good tool to have) $49+

Differential bible $30+

Just those few things will cost you about $1,300+. and there are still a few other tools that will be needed to make the job easier/cleaner. now granted, you can make do without a couple of those parts, but it's cleaner, safer, and alot more "proper" having the right tools.

now i won't lie. i don't have every single one of those tools. i don't have a case spreader, and i don't have the bearing puller. so when i take bearings off, i destroy them. which is why i have setup bearings (bearings honed out just far enough to install/remove by hand until final setup. then you install the real bearings)


see that's the part that alot of people don't realize when they complain that gear setups cost so much when a shop does it. if you take all the tools i listed above, and add some more other tools (plus sockets, wrenches and other tools required to remove/install the axles and everything else), and then on top of that, buy them from snapon, mac or matco tools, then you have easily over $2,000 in tools that are used ONLY to set up axles. that's why it costs so much.

so as i said earlier, if you have multiple vehicles, or can justify the cost of doing it right, then by all means go and buy it and learn how to do it. otherwise, if this is a one time deal, it might not be a bad idea to take it to a shop.

by the way, those tools can be purchased from this site.
http://completeoffroad.com/

and here is the link to that websites differential tools.
http://completeoffroad.com/wsm/c-21_differential_tools.html


here's a little tip that i like to ask people. and don't be cocky when answering this question. if you want to set up these gears and "think" you are ready, would you be willing to do it on your wifes jeep and let her drive it on the freeway at 80mph??? if you don't trust your wifes (or other most important person in your life) life with your work, then maybe you're not ready.
personally, i've done several gear setups on my wifes vehicle, my vehicle and friends vehicles. and i still don't like doing it for business, just because i haven't done that many. even though i have yet to have one of my jobs fail on me.

hope that helps.

Thank you that has been very helpful unlike many others who just straight up say that I can't do it. I do understand what you are saying about letting my wife drive it (even though I am not currently married or dating someone....school kind of takes up most of my time). That is also why I intend on doing this to my own jeep and not someone elses. Nobody else drives my jeep so if something happens it will happen to me.

For everyone else reading this unless you have a helpful suggestion, advice, trick, or any other knowledge please do not respond. I am not some kid who just randomly decided to buy an axle one day and re-gear it. I came up with this idea almost a year ago. I wanted to re-gear the jeep for better performance and fuel mileage so it would be a little more streetable. But after doing some research on prices neither I nor my Dad were willing to drop over a grand in re-gearing a vehicle that Kelly Blue Booked at $5500. I was a Chrysler automotive student at Gwinnett Technical College in Atlanta, Ga. for my freshmen year of college where I learned quite a bit about cars. One of the biggest things I learned there was that cars are not that scary and can be rather simple as long as you have the right knowledge, tools, and also have a mind for mechanics. Well I have the mind for mechanics, I am trying to gather the knowledge (no help to some people), and I am going to gather up the tools. You will not sway me away from trying to do this. The best way to learn this is to try just like everything else. Even the professionals didn't just wake up one day and knew how to do it they had to learn and try and FAIL and try again. The questions I have asked are legitimate questions that I have an idea as what the answers are to but I wanted to ask everyone else to make sure what I was thinking was right. In school if you aren't sure you got the right answer then you ask the teacher and if it was wrong she tells you why and how to fix it, but you don't just walk up to the teacher and expect her to give you the answer straight up without even trying. So thats what I am doing I am trying. If I fail thats my fault, my money wasted, and my problem. And if I fail fine I will try again until I get it right. I have probably a year before I need new tires on my jeep so the axle won't go in until then so I have a year to research, ask questions, gather tools, and gather parts. I am not going to just slap this together in a weekend or something.

So please I am begging you, if in your opinion you still think I can't do it then fine thats how you feel and there is nothing I can do about it, but I don't want to hear it so please just be a kind person and move on with your life and forget about me and what I am trying to accomplish. Leave this thread for those who want to genuinely help out a fellow jeeper.

 

[xjtrailrider]

I've been setting up diffs for a while(20 years) But like you will, I started somewhere, and that was Nashville Auto Diesel College in 85'. I watched the instructer do a 9" and I thought thats not so bad.

The thing is setting up diffs is a art and you have to get a feel for it. Find a local garage that has a tech that is good at gear setups and see if you can sit in with him on a couple of diffs to get the "feel" for it and how the "this effects that" stuff works. Read some good books on the subject, there is wealth of info on the net as well.

The first one you do is going to cost you a mint in tools alone so you need to ask yourself if you are going to do just one, then it would be cheaper to let someone else do it for you.

If you are mechanically inclined and are willing to put the effort into learning it right spend the money on tools, then you can get it done.

 

[Ben824]

I've been setting up diffs for a while(20 years) But like you will, I started somewhere, and that was Nashville Auto Diesel College in 85'. I watched the instructer do a 9" and I thought thats not so bad.

The thing is setting up diffs is a art and you have to get a feel for it. Find a local garage that has a tech that is good at gear setups and see if you can sit in with him on a couple of diffs to get the "feel" for it and how the "this effects that" stuff works. Read some good books on the subject, there is wealth of info on the net as well.

The first one you do is going to cost you a mint in tools alone so you need to ask yourself if you are going to do just one, then it would be cheaper to let someone else do it for you.

If you are mechanically inclined and are willing to put the effort into learning it right spend the money on tools, then you can get it done.

I was thinking about trying to find a local shop to kinda teach me the ropes a bit. So I can get a better idea as to how this works like you said how this effects that. And yah a few other people mentioned cost of tools and I don't plan to only do this once so I would like to have the tools for doing this again. You have been very helpful! You gave a great response whether you think I can do it or not you helped me out this is the kind of advice I'm looking for.

 

[dennisgrimm]

I have faith in you. You can do this job.

I have only set up a couple of axles in my life. My HP30 and my 8.25. I read a TON. The first axle took two weeks of evenings and weekends. Most of that time was spent with reading material in hand, the axle in front of me, and one hand scratching my head. The second axle took a weekend, no more. I have driven on these axles for a year now without the slightest issue. I changed the diff fluid a month ago and everything looks good.

I spent ~$200 on tools. I bought a dial indicator with stand ($20), a slide hammer ($75), a couple of brass drifts ($10), used in-lb torque wrench ($40), a bearing splitter ($25), and a 20t bottle jack ($35) with which I made a hydraulic press from some steel that was kicking aroud.

Although nice, the bearing puller, case spreader, and pinion depth tool are not required.

Instead of a yoke torque tool I borrowed a torque wrench capable of 300ft-lbs, a pipe wrench, a couple of cheater pipes, and a whole lot of muscle.

You want some advice?

1) Read the article on pirate4x4.com about gearing a D60, it will be similar to a D44 and the advice is priceless.

2) Do not worry about the pinion preload until you get backlash correct. This will save you LOTS of time.

3) Use your old bearings to make setup bearings. Makes life much easier.

4) Do not worry if you have to put it together and take it apart a bunch of times. Be patient and it will get done.

5) To get a good read of the contact pattern, apply rotational resistance to the carrier while turning the pinion. Do not use too much gear marking compound, you don't need much.

6) Once you are all done getting the carrier shims right, make sure you add the additional preload shims before you press your good bearings into place. This is an expensive mistake to make when you don't have a good bearing puller. Don't ask how I know.

 

[Ben824]

I have faith in you. You can do this job.

I have only set up a couple of axles in my life. My HP30 and my 8.25. I read a TON. The first axle took two weeks of evenings and weekends. Most of that time was spent with reading material in hand, the axle in front of me, and one hand scratching my head. The second axle took a weekend, no more. I have driven on these axles for a year now without the slightest issue. I changed the diff fluid a month ago and everything looks good.

I spent ~$200 on tools. I bought a dial indicator with stand ($20), a slide hammer ($75), a couple of brass drifts ($10), used in-lb torque wrench ($40), a bearing splitter ($25), and a 20t bottle jack ($35) with which I made a hydraulic press from some steel that was kicking aroud.

Although nice, the bearing puller, case spreader, and pinion depth tool are not required.

Instead of a yoke torque tool I borrowed a torque wrench capable of 300ft-lbs, a pipe wrench, a couple of cheater pipes, and a whole lot of muscle.

You want some advice?

1) Read the article on pirate4x4.com about gearing a D60, it will be similar to a D44 and the advice is priceless.

2) Do not worry about the pinion preload until you get backlash correct. This will save you LOTS of time.

3) Use your old bearings to make setup bearings. Makes life much easier.

4) Do not worry if you have to put it together and take it apart a bunch of times. Be patient and it will get done.

5) To get a good read of the contact pattern, apply rotational resistance to the carrier while turning the pinion. Do not use too much gear marking compound, you don't need much.

6) Once you are all done getting the carrier shims right, make sure you add the additional preload shims before you press your good bearings into place. This is an expensive mistake to make when you don't have a good bearing puller. Don't ask how I know.

Thanks so much for the helpful tips and the faith too. I do have a couple of questions though. First, what are brass drifts? I have never heard of those before. Second, how apply rotational force?

 

[JXPEEJ]

Brass drift= big fat brass punch. You can apply force to the ring gear with a big prybar (not on the teeth) when checking the pattern.

Maybe you can borrow or rent some tools. Make some set up bearings.
You have to start somewhere and on your own jeep would be the best place.

Don't install the pinion seal till you have your pinion depth and pinion rotate torque figured out. measure rotate torque with dry bearings.

 

[xj92]

I bought the book "Differentials: Identification, Restoration, & Repair" by Jim Allen & Randy Lyman. Chapter 5 on Major Repairs is great for setting up gears. I also read the manual over and over that came with the gears. When I was ready to read my pattern the first time, I posted up pics here to get advice. A few things I learned:

* When removing the carrier, use a pry-bar over the circle where a case spreader would go and pry on the bolt until it moves a little. Then use two pry-bars for the top two bolts after rotating the carrier a tad to get it the rest of the way out. Don't try shoving a rag in there like some people recommend. It gets the carrier out, but it pushes it out unevenly and you can mess up outboard shims if you have them or other stuff (you won't have outboard shims on an xj44 unless you're installing a Detroit Super 44). Don't bother with a case spreader. Once I figured out how to pry on the bolts, I can get it out in about 5-10 seconds each time now.

* Removing bearings is a pain in the butt without the right tools. Randy's Ring & Pinion makes a nice, ridiculously overpriced bearing removal tool that I didn't buy. I bought a bearing splitter (two actually, please skip the Harbor Freight one and get a good one the first time). Then you'll need a puller to work in conjunction with the bearing splitter. You can't do it all in a press. I made my own out of a solid chunk of steel, some bolts and a nut. When you get to that point, if you need more help, email me.

* An air tank and impact gun makes it all a lot easier since you'll be installing and removing the pinion several times most likely.

* Don't rush, take your time.

* If I knew how much it would cost me in tools ahead of time, I wouldn't have ever done it. But once I started buying the tools, I felt compelled to keep buying them to justify the ones already purchased until I had everything I needed. Now it's great being able to do my own gears. I've done three axles so far and they all work perfectly.

* Everything I've read says to lightly coat the pinion bearing with oil before spinning & checking for preload.

* I made a tool to bolt up to the pinion yoke (two bolts) and hold it in place when installing or removing the pinion nut. You'll need that. My tool was just a small flat piece of steel with two holes drilled in the right place to bolt up to the yoke, and that flat was welded to a 4-foot piece of angle iron I had laying around to give me a lot of easy leverage.

Good luck.

 

[Joker2669]

guess what. I did my d30 gears with a piece of pipe, a big hammer, an acetylene torch and a bearing knife. i went to 410s and didn't use a high gear break carrier either, it was the stock one. guess what. i drove it to rauch, flogged the holy hell out of it for 3 days, drove it home, drove it to MA where i broke my rear flange yoke on my 8.8, had to drive hom ein front wheel drive and also wheeled it AGAIN once that was fixed, again flogging it.. guess what.. it's still nice. oh.. and I just got back from canada.. 800mile round trip.
that was the first time i ever set up gears.

 

[sigmund]

Spend $30 on this DVD and you'll see what you need to know to regear your axle: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rebuilding-Your-Differential-DVD-120-Minutes_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33731QQihZ011QQitemZ320122381125QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

It'll be the best tool you ever buy for rebuilding and axle. The guy tears down and pulls a carrier with no "special" tools, and shows you about backlash and gear patterns. You can read a ton of literature and not get nearly as much as watching this guy. From what you see on the DVD, you can tell what tools you really need, and which ones are a huge waste of money.

 

[Cornflake]

guess what. I did my d30 gears with a piece of pipe, a big hammer, an acetylene torch and a bearing knife. i went to 410s and didn't use a high gear break carrier either, it was the stock one. guess what. i drove it to rauch, flogged the holy hell out of it for 3 days, drove it home, drove it to MA where i broke my rear flange yoke on my 8.8, had to drive hom ein front wheel drive and also wheeled it AGAIN once that was fixed, again flogging it.. guess what.. it's still nice. oh.. and I just got back from canada.. 800mile round trip.
that was the first time i ever set up gears.

guess what.....nominated

 

[djblade311]

guess what. I did my d30 gears with a piece of pipe, a big hammer, an acetylene torch and a bearing knife. i went to 410s and didn't use a high gear break carrier either, it was the stock one. guess what. i drove it to rauch, flogged the holy hell out of it for 3 days, drove it home, drove it to MA where i broke my rear flange yoke on my 8.8, had to drive hom ein front wheel drive and also wheeled it AGAIN once that was fixed, again flogging it.. guess what.. it's still nice. oh.. and I just got back from canada.. 800mile round trip.
that was the first time i ever set up gears.

:yelclap: what did you have to use a torch for?

Don't take any ideas from this guy since he was lucky. every gear guy is probably shaking his head right now. macGuyver methods are reserved only when you break down on the trail and have no other possible solutions.

I also wanted to consider doing gears in the future and the tips here are good. I just decided that I will leave mine up for the pros and save myself time, money on the tools, and the frustration / learning curve.

 

[ZacSquatch]

guess what. I did my d30 gears with a piece of pipe, a big hammer, an acetylene torch and a bearing knife. i went to 410s and didn't use a high gear break carrier either, it was the stock one. guess what. i drove it to rauch, flogged the holy hell out of it for 3 days, drove it home, drove it to MA where i broke my rear flange yoke on my 8.8, had to drive hom ein front wheel drive and also wheeled it AGAIN once that was fixed, again flogging it.. guess what.. it's still nice. oh.. and I just got back from canada.. 800mile round trip.
that was the first time i ever set up gears.

You were adopted weren't you

 

[Cornflake]

You were adopted weren't you

LOL!!!!

 

[scorpio_vette]

guess what. I did my d30 gears with a piece of pipe, a big hammer, an acetylene torch and a bearing knife. i went to 410s and didn't use a high gear break carrier either, it was the stock one. guess what. i drove it to rauch, flogged the holy hell out of it for 3 days, drove it home, drove it to MA where i broke my rear flange yoke on my 8.8, had to drive hom ein front wheel drive and also wheeled it AGAIN once that was fixed, again flogging it.. guess what.. it's still nice. oh.. and I just got back from canada.. 800mile round trip.
that was the first time i ever set up gears.

the only way you went straight to 4.10's without changing the carrier is if you already had 3.73 gears. otherwise, you'd either have such poor gear contact that you would sheer of the tips of the teeth, or you have the carrier shimed so far over that it's sitting off center, and it's just a matter of time before the un-even force makes it come apart.

now take that axle apart and do it right. not everybody wins the darwin award right off the back. you might still be runner up. i just hope you don't you don't win that award while you're in traffic.




and for the original poster. this is exactly why some of the people on here were not being very helpfull and telling you not to do it. because people like this come online way to often, ask for advice and then ignore all the advice and do some of the scarriest work imaginable thinking that they can do everything "because they read it on the internet". LOL

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

guess what. I did my d30 gears with a piece of pipe, a big hammer, an acetylene torch and a bearing knife. i went to 410s and didn't use a high gear break carrier either, it was the stock one. guess what. i drove it to rauch, flogged the holy hell out of it for 3 days, drove it home, drove it to MA where i broke my rear flange yoke on my 8.8, had to drive hom ein front wheel drive and also wheeled it AGAIN once that was fixed, again flogging it.. guess what.. it's still nice. oh.. and I just got back from canada.. 800mile round trip.
that was the first time i ever set up gears.