Axle Questions

O

oldmopars

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Roy Washington
I have been reading several posts and I am not completely sure what everyone is talking about.
full circle--This means full circle retaining clips?

weld 297 joints--What are you welding?

fake CTMs--What are CTMs? What are Fake CTMs?

297 with bushings and full circle clips--297 is the spicer part #, right? Bushings replace the needle bearings for added strenght, but what about grease, you must have to grease these weekly, right?

760s, 260s-- I assume these are also part #s for the spicer joints, but do they swap into all axles? Can you swap the stuff into an 80's XJ or do you need later shafts.

I ask all this as I want to know how best to build my project.
I don't want to spend money on something that is 3 steps beyond what I need, but I don't want to break stuff all the time either.

Could someone shead some light on some of this? :wierd:
 
Well I'll try! 260 is the U-joint size in the XJ front axle that is most common. After 96? They went to a 270 U-joint in the front axle. However there are XJ with ABS in the early 90's that have the 297's, and now the 760 is available in the TJ fronts. I think that is right.

Full circle is the clips like in the driveshaft that are recessed into the ears and hold the cap in. A lot of u-joint failure is the cap getting spit out. Welding is nothing more than welding the cap to the ear to keep it in place!

Fake CTM's? Got me there!

CTM's are supose to be the best and the strongest joint and are unlike any joint you will see, but I know one person here has broken one. They are $$$$, like $100+ each!

As for the bushings there is the general consensus that the nedles crush and that solid material woudl not have that problem.

Basically in a nut shell there are three different u-joints that can be put in the D30 front. FWIW the 297 is the same joint used in the D44 front! HTH and hope I did not post and SPOBI!
 
1- yes, full circle retaining clips. They keep your caps where they belong rather than watching Beezil's busted up crap hit my rollcage.

2- you weld the cap of the joint to the axleshaft itself. Not something you want to do much of if you like to not carry spare shafts or a grinder.

3- CTM's are the best ujoints made. Nearly indestructable, not something you need if you aren't out there conquering the absolute toughest of terrrain constantly with 35's+

Fake CTM's are probably the cryo treated longfields.

4- can't comment on the grease requirements, but with the proper material it wouldn't have to be weekly.

5-760's replaced 297's, 260's are smaller.

Sean
 
OneTonXJ said:
2- you weld the cap of the joint to the axleshaft itself. Not something you want to do much of if you like to not carry spare shafts or a grinder.

Sean
Click to expand...


correct me if I am wrong, but this is just a tack weld, not a full weld. Just enough to keep it there.
 
sort of correct, a tack weld will still let it fly. I'm currently looking at a funny grey painted cap with a couple of tack welds from a certain bald person on this board that didn't hold. Competitors/ ultra hard cores do a full weld, that is if they don't have full clips.
 
So what are you trying to accomplish with your build? For 33" tires a Dana 30 running 297 u-joints (or the 5-760 replacement) is plenty of strength...you can do alloy shafts if you think you'll need them.

If you plan to do more than 33's and "difficult" wheeling, then post your intentions because you'll want to talk about more than u-joints, i.e., talk axles first and then the options available for that axle.

Nay
 
Well at this point I should be getting a 87 MJ with a 2.5L. I plan to run 31s or maybe narrow 32s if I can afford them. I plan to do lots of trail running, no mud bogging, limited, but some rock crawling.
What I want is something I can enjoy on the trails without worrying that the axle is about to snap or the diff is going to explode.
For my uses the D30 that it comes with should be fine, but I may want to do some minor upgrades for piece of mind.
I had a 84 Mitsubishi 4X4 that I wheeled almost all stock and I beat the crap out of it and it worked well for the wheeling I did. I want an MJ to do the same.
 
OneTonXJ said:
sort of correct, a tack weld will still let it fly. I'm currently looking at a funny grey painted cap with a couple of tack welds from a certain bald person on this board that didn't hold. Competitors/ ultra hard cores do a full weld, that is if they don't have full clips.
Click to expand...

Really? Heck folks have told me I screwed mine up cause I did a little (ok more then a little) more then a tack weld. Something about making the cap weaker and possibly screwing up the needle bearings. This is not true?
 
I'd wheel it and don't replace stuff unless it breaks or you just have extra money and want the piece of mind. I've been running the 260 shafts and joints for 3 years wheeling on 3.5" and 31's and haven't broken anything yet (mostly open-diffed, last 3 months locked). I finally upgraded this week because I needed new u-joints anyways and didn't want to spend any money on those axle shafts. Brand new shaft and 297x joint (Spicer of course) cost me $135 each, compared to $25 each to replace the 260 joints.
 
If your only running trails with 31s/32s and no lockers then you should be pretty safe with the axles you have.
My stock 90 XJ (same axles) with the rear locked and 31s went through a lot of sh!t before I destroyed my first axle u-joint.
 
I've broken waaayyyy to many axle shafts.....I am seeing failure int he u-joint caps, which breaks the u-joint, which takes out both ears of the shaft.

in my recent experience, when it breaks, it ALL breaks....

that's why I feel welding the caps to the shafts is the way to go....

this is in lieu of full-circle clips or "real shafts/real joints"
 
However there are XJ with ABS in the early 90's that have the 297's
Click to expand...

Would this mean that my 92 unlimited with ABS has the 297's? Is there a way to tell without pullin 'em and takin em to the dealer? Of course it has the nondisco with 242. Will all the u-joints be the same on the whole vehicle for the front axle and f/r drive shafts?

I know I've read about most of this in other threads but not all in the same thread.

Terry
 
rockcrawlinxj said:
Would this mean that my 92 unlimited with ABS has the 297's? Is there a way to tell without pullin 'em and takin em to the dealer? Of course it has the nondisco with 242. Will all the u-joints be the same on the whole vehicle for the front axle and f/r drive shafts?

I know I've read about most of this in other threads but not all in the same thread.

Terry
Click to expand...

Yes ABS XJs have 297s from the get go.

Yes Measure the caps if they are around 1 1/8" they are 297s

No, axle and drive shaft joints are different.

mark
 
JnJ said:
Really? Heck folks have told me I screwed mine up cause I did a little (ok more then a little) more then a tack weld. Something about making the cap weaker and possibly screwing up the needle bearings. This is not true?
Click to expand...

They are totally messed up. You better throw them away right now!

:D

As long as they spine when you get done you're fine! Might not get the same normal life out of them but you're going to break one before it wears out! :D

mark
 
I might have started *Fake CTMs*.

I forgot who made them the other day.

cryo treated longfields= what I was calling *Fake CTMs*

mark
 
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