AW4 Tiptronic Controller

[Root Moose]

Funny thing is that it is not all OBDII's that are a problem as it wont throw a CEL on a 96 that does have OBDII? I wonder if you could use a TCU from a 96 in a later XJ and still have it work? Depends if the ECU is looking for the extra inputs as well that the later OBDII's have?

OBD-II started in 1995 on vehicles that were delievered as 1996 models. At least in North America that is the case. Can't speak to RoW.

My speculation is that ChryCo did the bare minimum for the pre-restyled XJ to pass the minimum criteria of OBD-II compliance (emmisions related purely) and then the "new improved" ECUs in the restyled/tweaked 97+ Jeeps got the "kitchen sink" ECU upgrades that monitor everything including TCU, etc. If the ECU and/or TCU of the 96 and 97 differred by part number this would tend to confirm this.

 

[DaffyXJ]

My 01 TCU has a 26 pin connector on it. Doubt the wiring is compatable with the 96 and earlier.

 

[Gojeep]

Just checked my 95 FSM and the TCU plug has C1-C16 and D1-D16 numbered pins.

 

[antonxj]

Let me jump in here.....were out riding my quad and missed all the posts.:shhh:

ok as I said before, and this is all just guess work as both Fletch and Myself own 1990 rigs,so i can't test any of this, however my logic tells me that we need to "alter" the signal to the TCU from the Gear selector Switch (NSS), or in this case turn them off, effectively putting the TCU in P/N, R mode. IMO that will not be detected as a Fault because you can do exactly that with the floor shifter, now we can mess with the solonoids because the TCU does not monitor the other signals while the NSS is in P/N or R it does not need to because no shifting will take place.

If DaffyXJ is correct and the connector on the 01 TCU has 26 pins only, than that offers a new problem as the wirring will be different....(DaffyXJ can you post the Schematic?)

However if your TCU has the C1-C16 D1-D16 pins (88 through 97 and later???) then it should be noted that not all the pins are use, only the following pins:

C3 - Road Speed Sensor
C4 - Diag DATA
C5 - Logic Ground
C8 - 1-2 Gear Pos from NSS
C9 - D Gear Pos From NSS
C10 - Brake Input
C11 - Power/Comfort Input
C14 - TC Lock Sol3 output
C15 - Sol2 Output
C16 - Sol1 Output

D1 - TPS Input
D2 - TPS Input
D3 - TPS Input
D7 - Chassis Ground
D14 - + BAT
D16 - Ign

If anyone has it different let me know. (Gojeep can you check yours?)

So now I'm thinking that if we turn off C8 and C9 with relays and after a short delay also switch C14 - C16 with relays to an external source like i do with my install the TCU will enter P/N, R mode and will ignore the signals from the other sensors(TPS,Road Speed), and this IMO should not trip the CEL while we manual shift.

Although I can design and build the circuit I cannot test it on my Heep, so i need someone to volunteer the testing part......

 

[antonxj]

like this

 

[lawsoncl]

I'm think the TCU will throw a bad NSS code if it sees vehicle acceleration when the NSS isn't saying the shifter is in a forward gear. At least speeds higher than you could get in reverse. I think thats what generates the P0705 code at least. Of course, by that notion putting the shifter in neutral going downhill would cause a CEL... Or another brain fart that just hit... If you lift or ground the speed sensor inputs when you switch to your controller, the TCU would think you were sitting still and not know what gear the tranny was in. That should solve the problem and avoid having to mess with the NSS at all. The sensors on the post 96 AW4s are inductive type pickups which generate 4 ac pulses per rev. In theory it should be safe to short across the sensor, but it might be safer to break the signal wire and cross it with a moderate value resistor instead. Pre-96 used magnetic reed relays that closed once per rev and shorting those is no problem.

 

[Gojeep]

My 95 RHD and LHD both shows.

C3 - Road Speed Sensor
C4 - Diag DATA
C8 - 1-2 Gear Pos from NSS
C9 - D Gear Pos From NSS
C10 - Brake Input
C11 - Power/Comfort Input
C14 - Sol3 output
C15 - Sol2 Output
C16 - Sol1 Output

D2 - TPS Input
D3 - Sensor Ground
D7 - Chassis Ground
D14 - + BAT
D16 - Ign

 

[antonxj]

I'm think the TCU will throw a bad NSS code if it sees vehicle acceleration when the NSS isn't saying the shifter is in a forward gear. At least speeds higher than you could get in reverse. I think thats what generates the P0705 code at least.

Take note that the NSS does not send P/N or R signals to the TCU, P/N only goes to the ECU and Starter Relay and R is only for the Backup Lights, so no 1/2 or D signal to the TCU will be intrepeted as P/N or R and it does not differentiate between those. We know you can rev the engine to the red line in P/N without tripping the CEL , and as you stated can coast in neutral at any speed without tripping the CEL, I think.

Of course, by that notion putting the shifter in neutral going downhill would cause a CEL... Or another brain fart that just hit... If you lift or ground the speed sensor inputs when you switch to your controller, the TCU would think you were sitting still and not know what gear the tranny was in. That should solve the problem and avoid having to mess with the NSS at all. The sensors on the post 96 AW4s are inductive type pickups which generate 4 ac pulses per rev. In theory it should be safe to short across the sensor, but it might be safer to break the signal wire and cross it with a moderate value resistor instead. Pre-96 used magnetic reed relays that closed once per rev and shorting those is no problem.

this should also work.... unless, and i'm not sure of this, but what i've heard is that there is two speed sensors wich should be linear with each other, if one shows no speed and the other shows different then that will trip the CEL, something like speed out of range error???

Now we just need someone to try these options and report back so that we can determine what will and won't work....(any brave guys out there willing to sacrifice his or his wife's 01 XJ?? )

At least we know that all pre 96 guys will be allright as the TCU's on these are the same(thanks Gojeep) so all pre 96 guys can run this mod with confidence!

 

[lawsoncl]

There is a front input speed sensor (added in 96/97) and a rear output speed sensor. If the ratios seem wrong for the gear it's trying to shift to, the TCU will throw a code for a bad solenoid. I believe it also looks for the rpm drop when the t/c locks up. I think you'd have to kill both signals.

 

[Dingo509]

OK let's not let this Thread die!!!

Antonxj, did you ever get the payment thing worked out?
And how about an update with your reaction now that you have the unit up and functioning with you own PCB.

Dingo

 

[Gojeep]

Gee guys you are behind. One has already been fitted over in Australia last week!

 

[antonxj]

Hi All...

Sorry Guys i'm very busy with "real" work, and had no time for an update..
Dingo the payment gateway is 90% sorted, they are waiting on some documentation from me...like i said got no time but i will get to it, promise!!) Added to that I decided to put up a shopping cart site, where you guys can order the controller from, its up and functional, but i'm gonna tweak it some more, before the official release... will post the url later today!

Dingo as far as driving with the controller goes, it is everybit as good,nice,functional as expected, i must admit that i've only done test runs(no time to go play), but it performs very well, there is no design difference between what i've done on the PCB and that of Flecth's original so the driving experience is and should be the same as his, however there were some quirks on the PCB, but i've sorted it to the point that i'm happy with it, and the kits that i sell will have the latest design. I also still have to make my install "permanent" as the joystick is not "mounted" yet.

Ok let me go and switch the cart from testmode to live so you guys can have a preview.....

 

[antonxj]

Ok here is the URL: http://www.xtronix.co.za for the shopping cart, it is a live shop and functional, so if you place an order i will receive and process it. Any coments and questions are welcome

Later

 

[Fletchs90xj]

Hey Go jeep the one installed in Aussie town was one of brents units not one of Antons. I can't seem to get to your forum anymore? Blocking Canadians?? Maybe we should block aussie access to Whistler your second capital :spin1:



Good jorb on the store front Anton, I wish I had enough time to build and sell kits on this side of the pond.


Fletch

 

[antonxj]

Hi Fletch,

Thanks for the compliment, i wish i could devote more time on this project but i have to look after the wallet too, had major crisis @ work this last week.

BTW i can still get to ausie forum, but i don't get any notifications from there, so i miss a lot of the posts????? what is going on there Gojeep? You guys so far infront timewise its not worth sending mail to this side of the pond hey

ahhh anyway.....

ps: BTW it was my B/Day yesterday, so where is all the well wishes then aahh sock it, don't want to be reminded of the fact anyway:gag:

 

[Fletchs90xj]

ps: BTW it was my B/Day yesterday, so where is all the well wishes then aahh sock it, don't want to be reminded of the fact anyway:gag:

arty: arty: arty: :cheers: arty: arty: arty:

Happy B-B-day from all your favourite smarties.

 

[Gojeep]

The Aussie Jeep forum http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/ is working perfectly for me so dont know whats up? I have nothing to do with the running of it but I have lost my notifications a few times but found the Gmail was putting them in the spam folder before it even got to me.

 

[antonxj]

Hi all...

just to let you know that this thread is still alive...i'm busy with work but did play around with the design.

1) The gear position display is now decoded from the tranny solenoids so it will also show gear position even in normal auto mode, and can be used by other devices that do not normally offer a digital gear display.
2) Gear display is by 7 segment digital and also by 4 individual LED's
3) Added a brake input to disengage the TC lock and this will be user selectable.

these functions has been designed and tested to work in simulation but i must still do a prototype and test it in the jeep.

Later

 

[antonxj]

BTw this is a bit off topic but should be of interest to all of you... I was contacted by Mr j. Nasset, the desiner of the compushift product, and here is a transcript of our communications...sorry its lots of reading

from mr. Nasset:

This email is to let you know that it has come to my attention that you are in violation of U.S. Patent 5413541

You are required by law to remove all references, diagrams, descriptions of your AW4 controller from any advertising via the internet and otherwise and discontinue selling or offering the product the product at once.
Failure to do so will result in further action as may be necessary.
As apatent holder I am required by law to give you this notification in order to protect my patent.

Thank you,

James Nasset Patent Owner

My response:

Dear Mr Nasset,

Thank you for your e-mail stating your concerns, however I must inform you that My AW4 controller is totally different in form, function and design when compared to your product as described in Patent #5413541, to such a extend that it is not in violation of the said Patent.

Furthermore I will not remove all references, diagrams, descriptions of my AW4 controller from any advertising via the internet and other wise or discontinue selling or offering the product.

Best regards

Anton Mostert

His reply:

Hi Anton,

It is unfortunate that you refused to do as is required by U.S. Patent Law and remove the information and discontinue selling your AW4 Controller. From your email it is obvious that you have read and understood the patent and I can only conclude from its contents you purposely copied it then added a few more components and operations to it. This makes it clear to me that you either do not understand what constitutes an infringement or you simply have a blatant disregard for the law and its consequences.

Now if you wish to disable the part of your device that allows control of first and second gear electronically, and accomplish it by some other means, without the use of a switch or wiring (such as mechanically altering the transmission) then it probably would not be in violation of Claim 1. You of course are also in violation of other allowed claims which I will not bother to address at this time.

Simply adding other operations to an existing patent still constitutes an infringement of the patent. You may wish to consult a Patent Attorney who will verify this for you.

I will give you one more chance to reconsider your decision. If you do not comply with my demand then it will become necessary that I take further action to facilitate its removal.

Regards,

Jim Nasset

And my Reply:

Mr Nasset,

Yes I do disagree with your statements an no I did not copy your device, I did not even know of its existence or the patent on it, I only read the patent in question after receiving you e-mail, but nonetheless it does not matter to me what you think.

I can point out several issues with your patent and your claims, but I don't want to turn this into a mud slinging session.

The fact is that your US patent is territorial and it does not include other countries, you do not hold a world patent, therefore let me point out to you that as I'm in South Africa (were you even aware of this?), I am not bound by your US Patent, I can design, build, advertise and sell my product unrestricted by your patent over here even if it was a direct copy of your device at least that is how patent law work according to my lawyers.

I am however intrigue to know if you are aware of the hundreds of similar products being manufactured and sold across the globe, some holding their own patents some not, even in the US? Will you also tell me how you came to know of my product as the website is not being promoted as yet.

Anton Mostert

PS: There might be a solution to your concerns, as I'm in the process of updating and changing some of my products and their descriptions, let me know if you are interested in what these will be, anyway its up to you.

Now to this he did not responde so I mailed him again:

Mr. Nasset,

I'm still awaiting your response...actually your lack of response just proves my point!
Further more I did have a look at the link you send me, and would like to point out to you:-
U.S. Code Title 35 Part III Chapter 28 (271)
g) ".........no remedy may be granted for infringement on account of the non-commercial use or retail sale of a product unless there is no adequate remedy under this title for infringement on account of the importation or other use, offer to sell, or sale of that product.
A product which is made by a patented process will, for purposes of this title, not be considered to be so made after-
(1) it is materially changed by subsequent processes; or
(2) it becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product. "

Thus it shows that as your patent is a trivial and nonessential component of my product, my product is considered not to be made by your patented process and no remedy may be granted for infringement!

It also shows that you cannot sue people for displaying circuit diagrams on their websites free of charge (non-commercial use) unless you are the copyright owner of such a drawing or diagram!

I can only assume that you are aware of this, and it is the reason you do not challenge other manufacturers of products like the one being sold by PCS (Power train Control Solutions) well either that or you are afraid they will wipe the floor with you?

Oh but wait, you only go after the small fish, using strong-arm scare tactics, and they go away quietly in order to avoid unpleasantness...well it won't work with me, your threats is about as effective as a fart in a hurricane!

It is lucky for both of us that we are not in the same country, lucky for me because I can sit here and ignore and laugh at you, and lucky for you because in my country you patent would never have been granted because several issues will deem it invalid.

Arrgghh why do I even bother - just go away you are wasting my bandwidth

Well so far that is where it ended....will wait and see
any comments guys?

 

[1998xj1985]

one comment:

haha....what an ass-tard