Boatwrench
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Petaluma, CA
Probably. They were pretty astute fellas.
Another shooting....
- Thread starter cracker
- Start date
Probably. They were pretty astute fellas.
- Location
- Wasatch Range
Urban labels himself as an "intellectual thug"......this self-imposed title is a direct result of his repeated failure to be selected for the HS Debate team. Stop feeding this troll......
- Location
- Wasatch Range
Not surprised at all......yet I hear no call for banning hammers and clubs.
It appears the zeal of Sens. like Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) is misdirected. For in looking at the FBI numbers from 2005 to 2011, the number of murders by hammers and clubs consistently exceeds the number of murders committed with a rifle.
Think about it: In 2005, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 445, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 605. In 2006, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 438, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 618.
And so the list goes, with the actual numbers changing somewhat from year to year, yet the fact that more people are killed with blunt objects each year remains constant.
For example, in 2011, there was 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs.
While the FBI makes is clear that some of the "murder by rifle" numbers could be adjusted up slightly, when you take into account murders with non-categorized types of guns, it does not change the fact that their annual reports consistently show more lives are taken each year with these blunt objects than are taken with Feinstein's dreaded rifle.
Another interesting fact: According to the FBI, nearly twice as many people are killed by hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.
The bottom line: A rifle ban is as illogical as it is unconstitutional. We face far greater danger from individuals armed with carpenters' tools and a caveman's stick.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...-Hammers-and-Clubs-Each-Year-Than-With-Rifles
It appears the zeal of Sens. like Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) is misdirected. For in looking at the FBI numbers from 2005 to 2011, the number of murders by hammers and clubs consistently exceeds the number of murders committed with a rifle.
Think about it: In 2005, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 445, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 605. In 2006, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 438, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 618.
And so the list goes, with the actual numbers changing somewhat from year to year, yet the fact that more people are killed with blunt objects each year remains constant.
For example, in 2011, there was 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs.
While the FBI makes is clear that some of the "murder by rifle" numbers could be adjusted up slightly, when you take into account murders with non-categorized types of guns, it does not change the fact that their annual reports consistently show more lives are taken each year with these blunt objects than are taken with Feinstein's dreaded rifle.
Another interesting fact: According to the FBI, nearly twice as many people are killed by hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.
The bottom line: A rifle ban is as illogical as it is unconstitutional. We face far greater danger from individuals armed with carpenters' tools and a caveman's stick.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...-Hammers-and-Clubs-Each-Year-Than-With-Rifles
I know what I said, and I sure as heck didn't have godwins law on my mind when I made those comments. I was thinking how to depolarize gun ownership by ditching the NRA and it's opposite lobby groups in favor of something everyone could back. Thanks for warping my comments though. It shows you care.
They had a time machine too apparently (but they didn't use it to travel into the future to kill hitler - just throwing the hitler reference in for 87manche). On second thought, they could-have left a note for future US leaders.... kinda like Doc Brown did for Marty McFly near the end of Back to the Future II.
I've grown quite fond how you label anyone who disagrees with your stale philosophies a troll. You have no credibility in my book, but if it's intellectual thuggery you want than mow over these articles (or skew them in your uniquely psychotic manner... I really don't GAF what you do).
Suggestions On "Take Two" For The NRA
"The NRA sponsored a bill to take away a physician’s right to ask about gun ownership. It is standard of care to ask a suicidal or homicidal person if they have access to guns, and pediatricians provide routine gun safety education. The law in Florida put this on ice, and thankfully a federal judge found it unconstitutional. Of course, Rick Scott, the Governor of Florida and NRA member, is appealing that ruling"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolynmcclanahan/2012/12/24/suggestions-on-take-two-for-the-nra/
^I like this article in particular because the talking points parrot the very same cliches we've glossed-over in this thread.
N.R.A. Stymies Firearms Research, Scientists Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
Yup, the NRA polarized research that could lead to strategies tackling mental illness.
How to turn ANY semi-automatic into a fully-automatic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9sNcq5jHFY
The internet makes learning fun for everyone.
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
Do me a favor and tell me how many murders (outside of criminal circles, i.e. gang on gang violence) have been committed using full auto weapons.
Maybe we should make them extra double plus illegal.
Maybe we should make them extra double plus illegal.
DrMoab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The Utah Backwater
Ever watched a professional cowboy shooter?
I'll bet with some practice the average person could shoot a lever action cowboy gun as fast as a guy with an AR. Knowing how a lot of ARs are built he'd have fewer jams and weapon failures too.
I'll bet with some practice the average person could shoot a lever action cowboy gun as fast as a guy with an AR. Knowing how a lot of ARs are built he'd have fewer jams and weapon failures too.
hawkeye 1
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Redondo Beach, CA
How many AR 15 type weapons have you shot or owned?
Please define "Assault Weapon".
How do you get a sociopath or criminal mind to obey gun Laws?
Have you ever tried competition shooting and how fast were you?
Have you ever owned a semi automatic rifle?
Have you ever owned a semi automatic handgun?
If you can't answer some these questions you should excuse yourself from this discussion until you educate yourself a little better of our culture.
Greetings to your Queen.
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Irrelevant
Suggested (forbes link in post 384)
Stupid.
hawkeye 1
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Redondo Beach, CA
That is EXACTLY what I expected from you. You just disqualified yourself from this discussion. :roflmao::moon:
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hawkeye 1
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Redondo Beach, CA
Nope, i was born an ass and know it. What's your excuse?
I have asked you some serious questions throughout this whole thread and you haven't been able to answer me one.
If you haven't had the chance to enjoy the freedoms we have in our country, you have no voice here whatsoever.
We are well aware on how socialism is working in the rest of this world.
Enjoy the gun laws in Canada and be happy with it, but don't try to force your views on a country that was founded on completely different rules.
I met you; it's contagious.
Your questions were NRA parrot points crafted decades ago to shut down any firearm conversation; hence, they're irrelevant to me. Moreso, the Forbes article posted earlier offered some serious solutions towards mental illness (allowing doctors to ask mentally ill people if they own firearms); you retorted with another asinine response.
You talk of freedoms like they're mutually exclusive to the United Stated and completely inline with your specific view, but America's a big country split on this debate. I don't see how either side will sway the other via profanities, exclusions, and tired talking points.
That's rich, whose forcing whose views on who now?
Fullsizexj
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Milton WV
they can't in their legal form, somehow you want to bring in ones that were illegally converted which brings us back to law breakers. How do you get them to obey laws that exist let alone new ones. They already have over 200,000 gun laws. It is a proven fact that new ones won't help. They need to address the cause of the problems, not the tools they decide to use
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
Related, sorta: http://m.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline
Add that to the war on drugs and the other sociological issues we have that I've already gone over and I really don't see a need for gun control.
Add that to the war on drugs and the other sociological issues we have that I've already gone over and I really don't see a need for gun control.
Actually, I was alluding to something quite different with that YouTube video ... mainly why the hell did that video end-up on youtube? Why didn't someone at the NRA request a take-down notice, or petition youtube to scrub that category all together. That was a prime example of irresponsible gun ownership - heck, the guy tried to kill some critter in the lake for no reason. The Police already use speeding videos (on youtube) to prosecute offenders, people who post pirated content are tracked down sometimes as well. A take down notice is far less invasive.
That's the problem with this debate; everyone's so paranoid about new laws that they fail to see simpler solutions under their nose. Allow independent gun research so consumers can make informed decisions buying their next firearm; don't allow idiots (on youtube) to sensationalize guns (hey, the NRA did blame media afterall), allow doctors to ask mentally ill people whether or not they own firearms (the cause of the problem) without the possible threat of being fined anywhere from $5,000 - $45,000.
- Location
- Indiana-Missouri
It sounds like you are implying that there needs to be improvements made in the HIPA law....
to that, I agree.
However.....it should NOT become the health care provider's business to interview a patient wether they own firearms or not. Deciding wether or not someone should be allowed to own firearms is NOT in their skill set, nor should a health care provider be empowered to make that decision.
They should be allowed to ascertain wether or not they believe a patient is an imminent threat with clear and present danger to themselves or someone else.
And for the record, i am still very uneasy with this opinion, and how such a procedure would be enacted and executed.
- Location
- Wasatch Range
The great injustice here is the lack of media coverage and demand for info regarding the mental state and medication that was being taken by the evil murderer that massacred the teachers and students at Sandy Hook Elementary.
While they again attempt to make the firearm of choice the guilty party to promote their agenda, they completely ignored the parallels that exist with the majority of these evil acts in recent history.
While they again attempt to make the firearm of choice the guilty party to promote their agenda, they completely ignored the parallels that exist with the majority of these evil acts in recent history.
It is simply indisputable that most perpetrators of school shootings and similar mass murders in our modern era were either on – or just recently coming off of – psychiatric medications:
Columbine mass-killer Eric Harris was taking Luvox – like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and many others, a modern and widely prescribed type of antidepressant drug called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs. Harris and fellow student Dylan Klebold went on a hellish school shooting rampage in 1999 during which they killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 24 others before turning their guns on themselves.Luvox manufacturer Solvay Pharmaceuticals concedes that during short-term controlled clinical trials, 4 percent of children and youth taking Luvox – that’s 1 in 25 – developed mania, a dangerous and violence-prone mental derangement characterized by extreme excitement and delusion.
Patrick Purdy went on a schoolyard shooting rampage in Stockton, Calif., in 1989, which became the catalyst for the original legislative frenzy to ban “semiautomatic assault weapons” in California and the nation. The 25-year-old Purdy, who murdered five children and wounded 30, had been on Amitriptyline, an antidepressant, as well as the antipsychotic drug Thorazine.
Kip Kinkel, 15, murdered his parents in 1998 and the next day went to his school, Thurston High in Springfield, Ore., and opened fire on his classmates, killing two and wounding 22 others. He had been prescribed both Prozac and Ritalin.
In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann went on a shooting rampage in a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, Ill., killing one child and wounding six. She had been taking the antidepressant Anafranil as well as Lithium, long used to treat mania.
In Paducah, Ky., in late 1997, 14-year-old Michael Carneal, son of a prominent attorney, traveled to Heath High School and started shooting students in a prayer meeting taking place in the school’s lobby, killing three and leaving another paralyzed. Carneal reportedly was on Ritalin.
In 2005, 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise, living on Minnesota’s Red Lake Indian Reservation, shot and killed nine people and wounded five others before killing himself. Weise had been taking Prozac.
In another famous case, 47-year-old Joseph T. Wesbecker, just a month after he began taking Prozac in 1989, shot 20 workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Ky., killing nine. Prozac-maker Eli Lilly later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.
Kurt Danysh, 18, shot his own father to death in 1996, a little more than two weeks after starting on Prozac. Danysh’s description of own his mental-emotional state at the time of the murder is chilling: “I didn’t realize I did it until after it was done,” Danysh said. “This might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing, like I was left there just holding a gun.”
John Hinckley, age 25, took four Valium two hours before shooting and almost killing President Ronald Reagan in 1981. In the assassination attempt, Hinckley also wounded press secretary James Brady, Secret Service agent Timothy McCarthy and policeman Thomas Delahanty.
Andrea Yates, in one of the most heartrending crimes in modern history, drowned all five of her children – aged 7 years down to 6 months – in a bathtub. Insisting inner voices commanded her to kill her children, she had become increasingly psychotic over the course of several years. At her 2006 murder re-trial (after a 2002 guilty verdict was overturned on appeal), Yates’ longtime friend Debbie Holmes testified: “She asked me if I thought Satan could read her mind and if I believed in demon possession.” And Dr. George Ringholz, after evaluating Yates for two days, recounted an experience she had after the birth of her first child: “What she described was feeling a presence … Satan … telling her to take a knife and stab her son Noah,” Ringholz said, adding that Yates’ delusion at the time of the bathtub murders was not only that she had to kill her children to save them, but that Satan had entered her and that she had to be executed in order to kill Satan.Yates had been taking the antidepressant Effexor.
In November 2005, more than four years after Yates drowned her children, Effexor manufacturer Wyeth Pharmaceuticals quietly added “homicidal ideation” to the drug’s list of “rare adverse events.” The Medical Accountability Network, a private nonprofit focused on medical ethics issues, publicly criticized Wyeth, saying Effexor’s “homicidal ideation” risk wasn’t well-publicized and that Wyeth failed to send letters to doctors or issue warning labels announcing the change.And what exactly does “rare” mean in the phrase “rare adverse events”? The FDA defines it as occurring in less than one in 1,000 people. But since that same year 19.2 million prescriptions for Effexor were filled in the U.S., statistically that means thousands of Americans might experience “homicidal ideation” – murderous thoughts – as a result of taking just this one brand of antidepressant drug. Effexor is Wyeth’s best-selling drug, by the way, which in one recent year brought in over $3 billion in sales, accounting for almost a fifth of the company’s annual revenues.
One more case is instructive, that of 12-year-old Christopher Pittman, who struggled in court to explain why he murdered his grandparents, who had provided the only love and stability he’d ever known in his turbulent life. “When I was lying in my bed that night,” he testified, “I couldn’t sleep because my voice in my head kept echoing through my mind telling me to kill them.” Christopher had been angry with his grandfather, who had disciplined him earlier that day for hurting another student during a fight on the school bus. So later that night, he shot both of his grandparents in the head with a .410 shotgun as they slept and then burned down their South Carolina home, where he had lived with them.”I got up, got the gun, and I went upstairs and I pulled the trigger,” he recalled. “Through the whole thing, it was like watching your favorite TV show. You know what is going to happen, but you can’t do anything to stop it.”Pittman’s lawyers would later argue that the boy had been a victim of “involuntary intoxication,” since his doctors had him taking the antidepressants Paxil and Zoloft just prior to the murders.Paxil’s known “adverse drug reactions” – according to the drug’s FDA-approved label – include “mania,” “insomnia,” “anxiety,” “agitation,” “confusion,” “amnesia,” “depression,” “paranoid reaction,” “psychosis,” “hostility,” “delirium,” “hallucinations,” “abnormal thinking,” “depersonalization” and “lack of emotion,” among others.The preceding examples are only a few of the best-known offenders who had been taking prescribed psychiatric drugs before committing their violent crimes – there are many others.
Remember, every single SSRI antidepressant sold in the United States of America today, no matter what brand or manufacturer, bears a “black box” FDA warning label – the government’s most serious drug warning – of “increased risks of suicidal thinking and behavior, known as suicidality, in young adults ages 18 to 24.” Common sense tells us that where there are suicidal thoughts – especially in a very, very angry person – homicidal thoughts may not be far behind. Indeed, the mass shooters we are describing often take their own lives when the police show up, having planned their suicide ahead of time.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/the-giant...rOPrQVksIbs.99
No, it's not fully automatic. one trigger pull still equates one bullet fired. I can do the same thingwith my pistol, and you've already stated that pistols are OK. So what's the difference other than that's a scary looking rifle?
There's nothing illegal that happened in that video. That is not a fully automatic firearm.
Learn the laws before you comment.
but then again, you've already professed your ignorance of the function of these firearms, which brings us full circle of the problem with gun control:
Those that want to regulate it have no idea on WHAT they want to regulate, because they don't understand the basic parts or function of a firearm.
Go ahead and ban scary looking rifles, we'll have alternatives right? You said that yourself. What happens when I take my AK and make it not scary looking? It will comply to the letter of the law, and still be EXACTLY as capable as it was before the ban, so what have you accomplished exactly?
oh, and FWIW, we already import AK variants for "sporting purposes" that take AK mags with very little modifications, and function exactly like an AKM. They're called SAIGAs, and you can have them in .223/5.56, .308/7.62x51, 7.62x39, 12Ga, 20G, .410.
They're even legal in your country, so I'd guess you better get on banning those.
@XJEEPER
1) I could turn the tables on you, and say that cars kill more people than people on anti-depressants.
2) Generalizing mass-shooters simply as being ‘evil’ does a disservice to the medical conditions surrounding mental illness thereby precluding actions against them.
3) Your stories include a combination of antidepressants and guns; than why, pray-tell, does the NRA lobby against doctors asking mentally ill people whether they own firearms? There should be a conversation regarding anti-depressant use as well. I will agree that -- in many cases -- they're a band aide solution, but your post proves the two make for a lethal combination.
@87manche
I stopped reading your comments after your NG=SS correlation. Thanks.
1) I could turn the tables on you, and say that cars kill more people than people on anti-depressants.
2) Generalizing mass-shooters simply as being ‘evil’ does a disservice to the medical conditions surrounding mental illness thereby precluding actions against them.
3) Your stories include a combination of antidepressants and guns; than why, pray-tell, does the NRA lobby against doctors asking mentally ill people whether they own firearms? There should be a conversation regarding anti-depressant use as well. I will agree that -- in many cases -- they're a band aide solution, but your post proves the two make for a lethal combination.
@87manche
I stopped reading your comments after your NG=SS correlation. Thanks.
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