Another shooting....

[johnnyc]

The Second Amendment was designed to ensure that individuals retained the right and means to defend themselves against any illegitimate attempt to do them harm, be it an attempt by a private outlaw or government agents violating their trust under the color of law. The Second Amendment was meant to guarantee individuals the right to protect themselves against government as much as against private bad guys and gangs.

This reminds me of the 1992 L.A. riots, where Korean business owners, armed with rifles, shotguns, and handguns, successfully defended their businesses against looters and arsonists. Had they not been armed, they would have lost everything, as many less fortunate people did.

 

[Fullsizexj]

This reminds me of the 1992 L.A. riots, where Korean business owners, armed with rifles, shotguns, and handguns, successfully defended their businesses against looters and arsonists. Had they not been armed, they would have lost everything, as many less fortunate people did.

Yup I was working in Simi Valley when the cops were on trial over the Rodney King beatings that sparked the riots

 

[johnnyc]

Fortunately, you and I were in the relative safety of the suburbs. But to be just about anywhere closer to LA would have been unsettling without being armed. And this type of scenario could very easily happen again in any metropolitan area. Look at New Orleans after Katrina.

 

[urban yan]

Makes as much sense as living in Canada, and claiming to have all the answers to Us issues.

I was expecting this comment. No matter how lightly I tread upon US politics, I get the occasional parrot - such as yourself - repeat the same tired line in effort to shut me up.

No never mind our cultures are very much alike, we’re neighbours, massive trading partners, democratically elected governments, we speak the same language, share similar roots, and face almost similar drug and mental health issues. We mostly differ on our approaches towards gun regulations and social programs (as witnessed in this debate before you trolled in). You simply can't expect to be taken seriously by drawing a parallel between Cold War era Germany/Poland relations with modern day US/Canada. Maybe next time you should think before you squawk; In return, I’m willing to send you a box of crackers.

another well written one
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lawrencehun ... citizenry/

Granted that article was written eloquently, but it's also skews deep ceded fear mongering towards one's own government. As much as we have in common as neighbouring countries, I'm afraid that's the one thing that fails to register with most canucks. The national guard, standing army, and government are all populated by Americans. You can vote out government officials anytime you please. The odds of the military firing on its own people - en mass - is slim, and the British won't be invading your shores anytime soon (since no two democracies ever waged war against each other).

I can see why mental illness should be a primary focus, the logic behind armed guards at schools, why assault rifle/ high capacity clip bans don’t necessarily guarantee trackable results, and I can also see why one would err on the side of less rules in favour of more freedoms, but fearing one's elected officials on such a primal level simply escapes me. I rather see a debate lend itself to protecting gun rights without delving into such irrational fears.

 

[kastein]

Your government didn't vote for the PATRIOT act, either. And IIRC you don't have a BATF ("Always Think Forfeiture"), DEA, TSA, and DHS that are massive overly powerful bureaucracies that answer to basically no one and trample citizens rights daily.

We know our government does dumb shit and that it wants the power to do more... and that is what we fear. The problem is, it's hard to put those bureaucracies back into the box they came out of.

 

[DrMoab]

Our country was founded on the belief that one should be afraid of their own government. That is a major part of our constitution. Hell, even one of the founding fathers talked about the fact that if the government fears its people you have liberty. If the people fear the government you have tyranny.

 

[urban yan]

Your government didn't vote for the PATRIOT act, either. And IIRC you don't have a BATF ("Always Think Forfeiture"), DEA, TSA, and DHS that are massive overly powerful bureaucracies that answer to basically no one and trample citizens rights daily.

We know our government does dumb shit and that it wants the power to do more... and that is what we fear. The problem is, it's hard to put those bureaucracies back into the box they came out of.

Point taken. I must admit it's hard - for me - to process why some of these bureaucracies can't be trimmed-back to a manageable size... especially in light of the current budget crisis. It seems like the opportune time to do so.

 

[IslanderOffRoad]

Yup I was working in Simi Valley when the cops were on trial over the Rodney King beatings that sparked the riots

I was living there at the time.

 

[kastein]

Point taken. I must admit it's hard - for me - to process why some of these bureaucracies can't be trimmed-back to a manageable size... especially in light of the current budget crisis. It seems like the opportune time to do so.

I completely agree. And I think many others here would agree also. Our duly elected representatives though? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I wonder when the next forecast apocalypse is, because I am pretty sure it's true.

 

[Gonepostal]

A wonderful quote from a libtard........"Deport me? If America won't change its crazy gun laws... I may deport myself says Piers Morgan".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...azy-gun-laws--I-deport-says-Piers-Morgan.html

C'mon guys get this one spread around and go here. VOTE!!!!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...piers-morgan-attacking-2nd-amendment/prfh5zHD

Lets help the poor idiot make up his mnd.

 

[MJ3000]

kastein...You know more than I thought. Good for you man. I don't know what political affiliation you are (I assume not Republican lol) but a lot of the stuff you have been saying about the drug war, patriot act, and everything else is 100% correct. You share a fair amount of the same ideas progressives/liberals do. I'm not trying to convert you or anything, just pointing it out.

Our course spending $500 EVERY SECOND on the drug war is literally INSANE. Of course the Patriot Act was one of the biggest robberies of freedom in this country. But you know what? Until people like you and me spread the word about how insanely stupid some of our agencies and laws are, nothing changes. Fact is, a huge majority of people don't care at all. If nothing affects their little bubble of a world they live in, they care about nothing else. It won't be until we literally drive ourselves into the ground because of own stupid laws, agencies, and terrible handing of money will your average person will realize....well golly gee maybe we should have done something or started caring about this earlier. But by then it may be too late..

Even if we don't see 100% eye to eye on guns, I can tell you we do probably share many similar political views. Keep spreading the truth my friend! Knowledge IS power.

 

[xcm]

C'mon guys get this one spread around and go here. VOTE!!!!

Im not surprised that someone on the same side as the guys advocating arming children and teachers to defend themselfs, thinks signing a petition on whitehouse.gov is 'voting'....

 

[DrMoab]

Im not surprised that someone on the same side as the guys advocating arming children and teachers to defend themselfs, thinks signing a petition on whitehouse.gov is 'voting'....

When he leaves whether its by choice or by force will you please join him? The UK would welcome you with open arms and we would be down just one more waste of resources here.

 

[urban yan]

A wonderful quote from a libtard........"Deport me? If America won't change its crazy gun laws... I may deport myself says Piers Morgan".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...azy-gun-laws--I-deport-says-Piers-Morgan.html

C'mon guys get this one spread around and go here. VOTE!!!!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...piers-morgan-attacking-2nd-amendment/prfh5zHD

Lets help the poor idiot make up his mnd.

I missed the fireworks with Piers Morgan on air because I honestly hate his show (he pales in comparison to Larry King). Having said that, I did read the article from your link, and I found it more passionate than idiotic. Yes his ideas for gun control (near the bottom the article) were naive, expensive, and unattainable, but you can't knock his sympathy towards the deaths of those 20 kids.

 

[hawkeye 1]

I've tried without success to get the below message through to Piers Morgans website,
or whatever his minders website it is. Not worth any more of my time.


Dear Sir,
great statement, but please answer me one question;
In a country like ours, with a few hundred years of gun manufacture and legal gun ownership, how do you talk a criminal mind out of his gun?
Never mind how he got it, too late for that. Just what law do you think will get him to surrender his weapons, whatever weapons they might be?
Please clearly answer me that question.

I would also ask any other anti gun person here to please answer it. I don't need a lot of talk around the issue, we had that already, just one clear answer will be sufficient.

 

[Gonepostal]

Im not surprised that someone on the same side as the guys advocating arming children and teachers to defend themselfs, thinks signing a petition on whitehouse.gov is 'voting'....

For starters when have I stated that we should arm KIDS or TEACHERS? However, I would be able to guarantee that my eight year old knows more about gun safety than an a$$ like you ever will.

Nor am I surprised that you don't have a slightest clue that voting in any venue is still a vote. Especially on a site your president created...but then again I never expected a fool would understand the concept of voting so why start with you.

Do us or at least me a favor and leave with your libtard friend.

 

[MJ3000]

I've tried without success to get the below message through to Piers Morgans website,
or whatever his minders website it is. Not worth any more of my time.


Dear Sir,
great statement, but please answer me one question;
In a country like ours, with a few hundred years of gun manufacture and legal gun ownership, how do you talk a criminal mind out of his gun?
Never mind how he got it, too late for that. Just what law do you think will get him to surrender his weapons, whatever weapons they might be?
Please clearly answer me that question.

I would also ask any other anti gun person here to please answer it. I don't need a lot of talk around the issue, we had that already, just one clear answer will be sufficient.

Welp, I guess I'll try. There is no law or set of laws for that per say. But what we can do is pass laws to at least lower the amount of people who die from guns. We can stop the NRA and the blind sheep who follow them. Why couldn't the NRA take literally 10 seconds to say..."and to you responsible gun owners out there, keep your guns in a safe,secure place at ALL times. Remember,responsible gun owners save lives through prevention." What if Adam Lanza's mother kept all her guns completely locked in something or completely secured? Why couldn't the NRA mention just a friendly reminder like that about guns or something similar? Because they don't care. At. All.

Their agenda is blame everything but themselves. They're protecting their money. And they are approaching what 5 million members I think? That's about two percent of the country that BLINDLY follows such a corrupt organization. I think this all boils down to how mad crazy America is about guns. We have the right to bears arms....yeah so do a lot of other countries, big deal. We're not special. Guns per 100 people rate for the US is first in the world, 88 or 89 I forget. Yemen is in second place, they have almost half of what we do...sooo the question begs...why do we need so many? We need to tone it down a bit and stop fueling the corporations who want every man, woman, child, and toddler to have a gun for "protection".

 

[Gonepostal]

I missed the fireworks with Piers Morgan on air because I honestly hate his show (he pales in comparison to Larry King). Having said that, I did read the article from your link, and I found it more passionate than idiotic. Yes his ideas for gun control (near the bottom the article) were naive, expensive, and unattainable, but you can't knock his sympathy towards the deaths of those 20 kids.

I don't think you can knock anyone’s sympathy. I've seen some of the most ardent Second Amendment advocates including myself tear up at the thought of what happened.

Piers uses every opportunity to rail against our Second Amendment rights. He is not a US citizen and as such has no right to tell me or any other US citizen how we should live. I may be am wrong, but its time he enjoyed a little of that logic from a country with virtually no gun ownership, where his rights as a British citizen can be enjoyed. In short he has no respect and is a quest that has worn out the welcome mat.

 

[hawkeye 1]

Welp, I guess I'll try. There is no law or set of laws for that per say. But what we can do is pass laws to at least lower the amount of people who die from guns. We can stop the NRA and the blind sheep who follow them. Why couldn't the NRA take literally 10 seconds to say..."and to you responsible gun owners out there, keep your guns in a safe,secure place at ALL times. Remember,responsible gun owners save lives through prevention." What if Adam Lanza's mother kept all her guns completely locked in something or completely secured? Why couldn't the NRA mention just a friendly reminder like that about guns or something similar? Because they don't care. At. All.

Their agenda is blame everything but themselves. They're protecting their money. And they are approaching what 5 million members I think? That's about two percent of the country that BLINDLY follows such a corrupt organization. I think this all boils down to how mad crazy America is about guns. We have the right to bears arms....yeah so do a lot of other countries, big deal. We're not special. Guns per 100 people rate for the US is first in the world, 88 or 89 I forget. Yemen is in second place, they have almost half of what we do...sooo the question begs...why do we need so many? We need to tone it down a bit and stop fueling the corporations who want every man, woman, child, and toddler to have a gun for "protection".

You didn't answer my question at all, it doesnt matter how many are out there. What are you doing about keeping them away from criminals. A simple question. What will more gun laws do to keep them out of the hands of criminals? Why can't you people answer one simple question?

 

[kastein]

kastein...You know more than I thought. Good for you man. I don't know what political affiliation you are (I assume not Republican lol) but a lot of the stuff you have been saying about the drug war, patriot act, and everything else is 100% correct. You share a fair amount of the same ideas progressives/liberals do. I'm not trying to convert you or anything, just pointing it out.

Our course spending $500 EVERY SECOND on the drug war is literally INSANE. Of course the Patriot Act was one of the biggest robberies of freedom in this country. But you know what? Until people like you and me spread the word about how insanely stupid some of our agencies and laws are, nothing changes. Fact is, a huge majority of people don't care at all. If nothing affects their little bubble of a world they live in, they care about nothing else. It won't be until we literally drive ourselves into the ground because of own stupid laws, agencies, and terrible handing of money will your average person will realize....well golly gee maybe we should have done something or started caring about this earlier. But by then it may be too late..

Even if we don't see 100% eye to eye on guns, I can tell you we do probably share many similar political views. Keep spreading the truth my friend! Knowledge IS power.

Close. I'm a registered Libertarian :rtm:

Basically... live and let live. Unless someone gets hurt, it's all good. Personal responsibility. A limited government. Freedom. That's my political views in a nutshell.