Another shooting....

[urban yan]

But you do shop for groceries when you know a hurricane is about to hit and you might not be able to eat for a week. It's not emotional, it's logical.

This run on guns isn't about emotion. It's the simple fact that we like these types of guns and we know they will be more expensive in the next year. The time to buy is now.

I disagree; those purchases are based on emotions not logic. Your hurricane comment makes it sound like there's an imminent storm of mass shootings coming your way. Hurricanes are trackable, mass shootings... not so much.

 

[DrMoab]

No. Because I don't buy guns and most people I know don't buy guns "only" to protect themselves. We do it because we like to shoot for fun. Yes even those super scary black guns that you seem to think are killer guns because they are painted black.

I only have two guns, three if you count my wife's that are for protection. The rest are to have fun with. My desire to have more while I can still get them is to protect my hobby. Not fend off a mass invasion of anything.

Ill bet 90% of the people who have rushed to buy guns in the last month or two will tell you the same thing.

 

[87manche]

Again, that's-that "kitchen sink" argument I loathe. It's implicitly designed to sway attention from the subject at hand.

and yet you have avoided the questions I have asked that are DIRECTLY germane to this conversation.

Let me refresh your memory AGAIN:

Explain to me how more regulation will stop such an event from happening again.
Explain to me how someone with 20 minutes of uninterrupted time in a building full of unarmed occupants is going to be hampered by 10 round magazines instead of 30.
Explain to me why handguns are OK, but rifles aren't. What about carbines chambered in handgun calibers, or handguns that can be converted to carbines?
What about my relic from WWII that fires a much more powerful cartridge than your average AR, has no evil "assault rifle" features and is quick to reload 8 at a time with the clips I showed above. Patton called it the greatest battle implement ever devised. Yet it would be just fine if you banned firearms based on looks.

This is the THIRD time I've posed these questions directly to you.


You want to come on here and tell us all how we're terrible and that our hobby is detrimental to society. You pontificate about the NRA argument and say that it upsets you that they divert attention from the firearms. Yet you have consistently refused to answer any of my questions about the practicality of such laws and what they would really do to stop another tragedy such as this from occurring.

put up or shut up.

I don't think armed guards are a bad idea; in fact, they had guards (don't know if they were armed) back in Poland when my mother attended elementary school. My only issue's money - where do you get it?

oh, and the evil NRA pledged to fund a guard in every school in the nation the other day. So how's that for doing something to prevent another tragedy that actually make make a damned difference.

 

[hawkeye 1]

All those anti gun people should be required to put up " Gun Free Zone"signs on their houses and apartments.
Lets just see and wait on what doors all those Gang-bangers, Robbers, and Rapists are going to show up.
One thing is for sure, not on my door.
Have a good night.

 

[urban yan]

This is the THIRD time I've posed these questions directly to you.

You want to come on here and tell us all how we're terrible and that our hobby is detrimental to society. You pontificate about the NRA argument and say that it upsets you that they divert attention from the firearms. Yet you have consistently refused to answer any of my questions about the practicality of such laws and what they would really do to stop another tragedy such as this from occurring.

put up or shut up.

You can't read either. I'm not against guns; therefore, I'm not obliged to live up to your presumptions that I'm a gun hating liberal. I'm not a gun expert either; therefore I cannot answer your questions to your satisfaction, but if you want to get into a pissing contest explain to me how you'll be able to afford armed guards at every school, or how you'll tackle mental illness?

put up or shut up.

 

[urban yan]

No. Because I don't buy guns and most people I know don't buy guns "only" to protect themselves. We do it because we like to shoot for fun.

You can buy guns for fun anytime. Don't bullshit me that people buy guns for fun after a mass shooting.... if that's the case, I may-have found a way to screen for mental illness.

 

[DrMoab]

No that isn't what I said. I said the people who buy guns for sport are worried they will lose the ability to buy them. I know I am. I'm horrified that the guns I really want will be gone. I don't want them for any other reason than to enjoy shooting them. But I see a real danger of not having the option. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[urban yan]

Fair enough, but I doubt everyone waiting in those lines shares your sentiments.

 

[Gonepostal]

You can't read either. I'm not against guns; therefore, I'm not obliged to live up to your presumptions that I'm a gun hating liberal. I'm not a gun expert either; therefore I cannot answer your questions to your satisfaction, but if you want to get into a pissing contest explain to me how you'll be able to afford armed guards at every school, or how you'll tackle mental illness?

put up or shut up.

We can afford an army of armed guards to be in our airports 24/7 so I don't see why we can't afford armed guards in our schools for 8 hours a day 5 days a week.

I am not a psychiatrist so mental health is an issue better dealt with by professionals. However, I do work in a psych hospital and I can attest to the ability of these folks to deal with the deranged in society. I can also see where our current HIPPA regulations could be a barrier to tracking and blocking a potential purchase. Perhaps changing those regulations would be a good place to start.

 

[DrMoab]

Fair enough, but I doubt everyone waiting in those lines shares your sentiments.

I think most do. The media and people who are either scared of guns or hate them have done a great job convincing you and Unfortunately a lot of people like you otherwise.

 

[Gonepostal]

I disagree; those purchases are based on emotions not logic. Your hurricane comment makes it sound like there's an imminent storm of mass shootings coming your way. Hurricanes are trackable, mass shootings... not so much.

I would have to counter that the current fervor towards passing draconian gun laws is much the same and based on emotion rather than sound logic.

I'm not arguing "gun free zones", but you make it sound like everyone with a gun is a responsible gun owner. If everyone was responsible than none of these guns would land themselves in the wrong hands. Clearly, there's a significant amount of people that don't tend to their weapons properly (they don't lock them up, buy weapons for the wrong reasons, etc..).

I agree not everyone is totally responsible but neither is the liberal mindset in fixing the blame on legal gun ownership or labeling us as kooks. In fact given about ten minutes I could come up with a dozen things that people are not responsible in owning but have the potential to kill multiple people.

This is just my opinion, but a lot of our problems stem from a society that sees and has been raised to see violence as means of getting ahead. And, many of the guns that are out there were never legally owned and many that were, were stolen during break-ins from legal gun owners prior to the proliferation of safes and lock boxes. I would be willing to bet that if guns were outlawed today, I could cross our southern border and purchase a weapon and then bring it back. Granted I would be taking a huge chance and risking incarceration, but if I intended to break laws do you honestly think it would stop a criminal. The fact is beating me and legal owners up will accomplish nothing, but our current administration has determined that we are to be the whipping boy I his crusade.

 

[MJ3000]

Ok, here's the crazy liberal that knows nothing again. This is how crazy I am, I am going to make an exact prediction of what is going to happen with all this gun control "fervor". We'll see how nuts I am in a few months till things play out.

1. High capacity magazines: gone. Somewhere around 10 and above will get the axe.

2. Assault weapons ban: will not happen. As much as I'd like to see it, there's slim to no chance for it.

3. Background checks: will strengthen. Will not include every transaction, there will still be loopholes.

4. Everything else: status quo remains.

My point of all this is that ANYONE who thinks Obama or Congress is going to do anything significant about gun control is completely delusional. You are delusional. Obama talks a good talk, but if your too stupid in the head politically, you won't realize that talking is all he does. He will do NOTHING. So if that's ANYONE'S reasoning behind going out and stocking up on guns, you are a moron. Sorry. Maybe if people followed politics more and realize that Obama only wants you to think "change" will happen when he says things like "meaningful action." He's just filling the gun companies and NRA's already fat pockets with those statements, they mean literally nothing. He has said similar things after every shooting and all he has done is made gun control even more lax than it already is.

I just wanted to get that bit in here. I've pretty much given hope about changing any of your minds on anything else. Also, when I said "anyone" that wasn't directed to any of you guys, just literally everyone in general.

Still a kinda calm, healthy discussion though guys! Good job! :cheers:

 

[kastein]

1. High capacity magazines: gone. Somewhere around 10 and above will get the axe.

2. Assault weapons ban: will not happen. As much as I'd like to see it, there's slim to no chance for it.

kindly read the second to last article I linked. This will do nothing except make many guns and magazines in the hands of otherwise law abiding citizens illegal. It will do absolutely nothing to change the statistics when it comes to people being killed in shootings.

https://kontradictions.wordpress.co...ew-the-assault-weapons-ban-well-ill-tell-you/

"Assault weapons": used in around 2% of violent crimes, both during and after the AWB

Large capacity magazines: irrelevant, the worst shooting in recent history was committed by a man with something like 17 magazines in his backpack.

You're welcome. Not that you'll read it or even consider changing your mind :banghead:

 

[MJ3000]

I bookmarked the article. I'm too tired to read something that big at this time of night, but will. But anyway: EVERYTHING I numbered in my last post is literally what is going to happen. It is not my opinion or what I think or what I want. It is what is going to happen when all is said and done. Period.

Politics are like a book, the deeper you read, the more you understand. And Obama's book is easier to predict than the simplest child's book. It's all about interpretation.

 

[kastein]

2. Assault weapons ban: will not happen. As much as I'd like to see it, there's slim to no chance for it.

It is not my opinion or what I think or what I want.

I got confused by this. Otherwise I am not disagreeing with you, only with why people want to do what you listed.

 

[DrMoab]

Hi cap mags may get the axe in a new bill but they will never be "gone"

You know why? Because in just three days after this shooting there has been more high cap mags sold than in the last 3.5 years.

Can your tiny little liberal mind even come close to comprehending how many that is? Now these mags are on no government record at all. None, not a single one. You don't have to get a back ground check to buy one...nothing. They sell for as little as $10 and there are millions and millions and millions of them out there in the public hands. Since there is no record of sales, no registration or anything like that...tell me how they are going to be gone?

First off, the bill that is on the table says in very plain language that they do not plan to make it illegal to own them. They will just be illegal to buy if they are manufacturued after the date the ban goes into effect. So that still leaves all those millions that have been sold and will continue to get sold....at the rate of three times as many in a day as in the last three years....if the companies that make them can keep up and you know they will try. This is a huge money making deal for them. Second, even if they were stupid enough to try and actually ban them, how are they going to find them all? Do you really think people are just going to hand them over if the government comes calling? They are cheap, small and easy to hide. If they did ask that you turn them all in maybe 30% would...and that's being pretty optimistic...or pessimistic depending on which side of this issue you are on.

The point is, no matter what law they enact, it is nothing more than a silly ass, make liberals feel better about themselves bill which will have no effect on any of the real issues surrounding violence in the country. It won't make much of a difference to the law abiding gun owner and it will make absoulutly no difference at all to the whacko who decides he is going to kill a bunch of people. None at all.

 

[jeepdreamer]

I live 30 minutes from their and it makes me sad to think that if was in my backyard. I wish that they would walk into a police station on a shift change, not a elementary school. It's like shooting a lamb. This whole thing is ****ed up! I really can't believe it happened. uke:

Can you explain that line?

 

[urban yan]

I think most do. The media and people who are either scared of guns or hate them have done a great job convincing you and Unfortunately a lot of people like you otherwise.

How do you figure? Plenty handguns sold after this mass shooting... bullet proof backbacks too.

 

[Fullsizexj]

There is no real one size fits all solution, we have several problems combined here
Mental illness and no real programs available to help it
Family values, they ain't what they used to be
Media, glorifies it
Games TV and movies, desinsitizes it
Gun laws, we just need to enforce the ones we have, we have over 200,000 of them already, new ones will make no difference
Criminals do not obey laws so laws are not the problem
Do people realize how many schools already have an on duty cop there during school hours already, I do not think it will tramatize children to see one on school grounds, in fact I can't think of a single kid that did not get excited and would wave every time they saw a police officer, I know my kids did when they were little. All in all, attacking the gun is not the answer, preventing the wrong people from attaining them is. The last ones used were stolen. How do we stop theft, by securing them properly. Back ground checks are not a bad idea for private sales in my opinion, as a responsible gun owner, don't you feel that you should have a responsibility to make sure the person you sell one to is also. I have several opinions on all of this but I refuse to give up my 2nd ammendment rights because of a few bad people. I am all for having armed secutity in schools along with locked entry ways so that people can be screened before entering a school. we go through this when we enter a court house, we go through this when we enter an airport, we go through this when we enter a federal building, it is the world we live in now and it is only getting worse at this point.

 

[Kevin108]

Can you explain that line?

Guessing: There's twice as many cops there as during regular hours so it would be like walking up to your own execution squad. :dunno: