After Head swap getting loud lifter tick

I've currently got a tick I just developed, but the engine shakes the whole vehicle from idle to 1800 RPMs (shaking less violently along the way until it stops completely at 2000). Do you think that could be some sludged oil from overheating too many times ?? (just replaced the radiator a few days ago) It is an audible tick from the top of the valve cover. Would that be a rocker or a lifter?
 
Also, I just found this on Wikipedia about hydraulic lifters.

" There are a number of potential problems with hydraulic lifters. Frequently, the valvetrain will rattle loudly on startup due to oil draining from the lifters when the vehicle is parked. This is not considered significant provided the noise disappears within a couple of minutes, typically it usually only lasts a second or two. A rattle that does not go away can indicate a blocked oil feed or that one or more of the lifters has collapsed due to wear and is no longer opening its valve fully. The affected lifter should be replaced in the latter situation.

In certain circumstances, a lifter can "pump up" and create negative valve clearance so that its valve cannot close. Typically this occurs in the most upper rpm range of an engine, and limits the engine's performance. Lifter pump-up is serious, as there may be interference of the valve with the piston or, burned valves may result. In all cases it is important to follow the manufacturer's recommendations for oil viscosity and quality."
 
Based off of wikipedia, barring Wikipedia being wrong or us not having hydraulic lifters in Cherokees, you would have the latter situation.

This would explain why ATF would get rid of the tap on a "stuck" lifter. Yours might not be stuck. May just be worn and need replacement as wikipedia says.
If you wait until it's too late... I guess something bad happens. I had a brand new engine when that happened and it wiped out a lobe on my new cam. That required a full disassembly-and cleansing-of the engine (metallic shards were a byproduct) .

I don't know if cams can be wiped out after their initial break in period, but if so I would get it fixed if I were you. Save you a lot of unnecessary work and having to buy a new cam.
 
ReverendOD said:
Ive got one on it, it will tick on cold startup with 45 psi or warm idle at 7 doesnt matter.
Click to expand...

Yeah, getting the pushrods out of order/possibly dinging one of the ends is effecting things. When you cleaned up the pushrods did you inspect the ends carefully to ensure there was no damage or anything foreign stuck in them?

Pulling the VC and listening with a vinyl tube to each should let you identify the source, maybe replacing that pushrod and rockers would cure it for you.

If you still think it is a volume issue next time you do a RMS install a HV oil pump, at NAPA they are like $5 more than standard.
 
HttpWayne said:
I've currently got a tick I just developed, but the engine shakes the whole vehicle from idle to 1800 RPMs (shaking less violently along the way until it stops completely at 2000). Do you think that could be some sludged oil from overheating too many times ?? (just replaced the radiator a few days ago) It is an audible tick from the top of the valve cover. Would that be a rocker or a lifter?
Click to expand...

Sounds a little like a bad lifter that only pumps up at higher RPMs.
 
joe_peters said:
Yeah, getting the pushrods out of order/possibly dinging one of the ends is effecting things. When you cleaned up the pushrods did you inspect the ends carefully to ensure there was no damage or anything foreign stuck in them?

Pulling the VC and listening with a vinyl tube to each should let you identify the source, maybe replacing that pushrod and rockers would cure it for you.

If you still think it is a volume issue next time you do a RMS install a HV oil pump, at NAPA they are like $5 more than standard.
Click to expand...


I did inspect them throughly and clean them well no damage noticed. Ive considered just swapping all the rocker arms and pushrods, it cant hurt. I did pull the VC and using heater hose and an engine stethescope was unable to locate the offending cylinder, so it may be multiples.

I have considered a HV pump, the RMS looks great now and since the noise is only there at idle and goes aways under RPM im sure its lifter/pushrod/rocker and not a bearing so it can wait for now. Ive kinda gotten used to it, sorta soothing lol....
 
joe_peters said:
Sounds a little like a bad lifter that only pumps up at higher RPMs.
Click to expand...

Bad as in it needs to be replaced? As in.. it's worn out? The engine only has about 7000 miles on it (rebuild) and has ran fine until the overheating. During cycling water through before using radiator stopleak, before the replacement, a bunch of brown-foul-smelling liquid came out. could that be rust from running 80/20 coolant/water? Then running water for about a full day and letting it sit overnight. ??

I've also just read that on another car forum that someone had an overheating problem, then after that they changed their oil and it looked lik 'chocolate milk.' I also read that and sort of unwanted things, such as water or coolant, could cause a lifter to not oil properly and tick.

My question is, do you think this is all interrelated... as in somehow water has invaded my engine. Or could it be that filling up with water and driving until the temp. guage jumped from 210 to 260 (due to leaking coolant) about 4 times in one night over the course of 4 hours could have somehow cause heating damage that damaged the lifter... and therefore might require more than just replacing lifters and a cam. ??
 
When you pass 60 ethylene glycol to 40 distilled water you are in a LOSE-LOSE situation.

LOSE ONE: As you pass 60 in EG the freezing point ACTUALLY RAISES. This is to be expected when one considers that ethylene glycol, the principal component of most antifreezes, freezes at 8 degrees above zero,Fahrenheit. It is only when water is added that the freezing point is depressed. The freezing point of an ethylene glycol and water mixture drops rapidly as the concentration of glycol is increased to a mixture of about 60% antifreeze and 40% water. After that the freezing point will RISE almost as rapidly as it dropped.

LOSE TWO: ethylene glycol is a LOUSY coolant. Water is a much better coolant. Where EG anti-freeze/coolant products come to their forte is anti-corrosion additives and that they lower the freezing point and raise the boiling point of water.

A 50/50 mix of EG and distilled water will protect you late Fall through early Spring.

A 30/70 mix of EG and distilled water will maximize your cooling late Spring through early Fall.
 
I had it backwards. It was 20% coolant 80% water. By the end of the night (in 25 degree weather) it was 100% water, and it sat the whole night. That's when I eventually tried the radiator stop leak and had it towed after that didn't work.
 
I put some seafoam in to see if it would clear up the tick I hear. It's there LESS now, but still there. When under load you don't hear it as much, but like before when the RPMs come down past 1500 you can hear it and the engines shakes steadily the the revolution (about 2-3 times a second).

You can't hear the tick under load/goes away... but the engine is louder. It doesn't sound like anything in particular (in my weak experience) but it certainly does sound as though there is something wrong.

I still get the shakes on acceleration from idle until 1800 RPM. Starts real shakey and levels off completely around 1800-1900.

A stuck lifter would just tick and not cause the whole engine to shake, correct? What else could this be? A bad bearing somewhere? I'm going to check out the rockers and rods tomorrow.

Wayne P.~
 
HttpWayne said:
I thought when you got the "tick" you had to replace the lifter. Is that for a constant one or will this one works it way out? ... ??
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not.

Lifters don't always tick across the full range of RPM they run at. Often the noise will go away at higher RPM, coming back at lower numbers. In some cases being run through the rev range over time will clear them up; in most cases, there's usually some tick at at least idle if they've gone bad. Having said that, in my experience that usually only happens with hydraulic lifters as dirt and/or air work out and are replaced with oil and it assumes no further or extensive other damage.

It sounds as though you now have bigger problems than just a bad lifter, though. Hate to say it, but it may be time to tear the stroker down; from the way you're describing the shaking, the timing chain may have jumped a tooth or been improperly installed to begin with. That's just supposition on my behalf, though; there are a number of things that could be causing what you're describing.
 
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Hijacked indeed. I posted this same issue in another thread and I never got any responses. I saw he had a similar problem and got responses on this one. I'll investigate under the valve cover tonight if I have time.

I can run the engine with it off can't I?
 
HttpWayne said:
...and what fixes that? Why would a lifter clear up at higher RPM? I thought when you got the "tick" you had to replace the lifter. Is that for a constant one or will this one works it way out? ... ??
Click to expand...

Replacement. Lifters can wear to the point they don't pump up until there is a higher volume/pressure delivered to them.

Ever notice how the oil psi on a hot engine is lower at idle than when you are cruising along? At higher RPMs the pressure is higher and the marginal lifter is pumping up and doing its job.
 
Wayne needs to do a compression check--I think you overheated one too many times. One of the XJs I fixed and sold ran rough from idle->1500+(the higher rpms didn't bleed compression as much). The fix was having the head shaved flat, a 3-angle valve job(while I had it off), new rings, and a new headgasket.
 
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