350 hp naturally aspirated Inline 6

[cherokeeproject]

I think if you were to recalculate your expectations to 270-275 horsepower, you're in the ballpark.

There's an engine builder here on Naxja, Russ Pottenger, owner of Bishop-Buehl Racing Engines in California.

Hit him up and see what he thinks.

Russ Pottenger
Bishop-Buehl Racing Engines
531 N. Lyall Avenue
West Covina, California 91790
Work (626) 967-1000
Fax (626) 967-7836
Cell (626) 673-2203
Email [email protected]

Thanks CAL, I will definitely hit him up after I recover financially from the holidays. I hope to collect parts over the next year or so and pull the engine and do everything all at once. So I've got some time to figure it all out.

as far as lowering my expectations, I know Im asking a lot, but its difficult to get a solid handle on the power output with all the modifications considered. Everything that's advertised a % increase, and with the stroker builds its hard to establish a quality base line because most individuals with a stroker aren't running everything else stock. I'll probably be O.K. with 275 hp but I just really like the idea of hitting the 300hp mark

 

[MikeMc]

I'm not sure what you mean by "bolt-on" but it's not completely unreasonable if you mean a complete build. Pistons (agreed 10:1 and I'd expect to run the super pump gas), cam, fuel pump(s), intake and an aftermarket fuel injection system or carbs, performance head/valve work, headers, etc, etc, etc. I'd stop obsessing on .030 or .060 over or stroker. Do .030 if the cylinders need it. Otherwise forget it. Basically you're going to build close to a race car engine to get 300HP from it. I remember back in the 90's the US 2.0L Super Touring cars were making 300HP without forced induction.

Remember building power is kind of like that expression about a chain's weakest link. You could add 10 things but leave one out and end up with the same or less power.

 

[JohnX]

Just to throw in my two cents here...

300 is just a number, stop focusing on it and you'll be much happier with your results and your wallet will thank you. I would not start adding percentages together so fast either, that's a really good way to be disappointed when predicting an engines output. As mentioned a stock 4.0 will do the job you're asking of it (4.56's/35's)...you want it to do it faster and that's fine. My 4.6 RENIX with ALL STOCK parts is well under your 300hp desire, yet it will smoke my 36 inch tires at will....with an automatic. Just build it to the level you can afford and then enjoy it. It will not matter if it is 250 horse or 325 horse, you will like it.

 

[cal]

JohnX pretty much nailed it there. More than the actual horsepower attained, with the rebuild you're going to run some aftermarket cam, which if you do things right, will put your power more into an RPM range that you need it. My 'big' XJ can cruise up mountain passes on 37's and never shift out of 4th gear, because there are buttloads of torque at 3000 RPM. The race car probably has less power at that RPM, but another 100-125 horsepower total - but not until we get up to 4500 RPM's or so.

 

[01upcountry]

5.3 swap ........

 

[cherokeeproject]

I didn't think too much on the head work. I was just thinking a good porting job & roller rockers would do it. but your right, if I want to do it right, then I'll need to rework the head a bit. The cam is where I'm struggling. If I do decide to go forced induction at some point the cams would need to change and I'm not a fan of re-buying parts. If I'm happy with the power output from the stroker & a few bolt on mods (exhaust headers, 2000+ intake, CAI, 62mm throttle body, etc.) then I'll stick with it.

 

[David_Bricker]

The 4.6L motor in my Jeep and the 4.7L motor in the Team KOH race car were both built by Mr. Pottenger. These two motors couldn't be more different however. Mine will run on pump gas, runs out of oomph at 4500 RPM, but can pull freight trains at 700 RPM. The 4643 motor doesn't even hardly wake up much before 4000 RPM, but would blow my doors off above that.

I love my motor. It has been dubbed "the motor that cannot be stalled". It's perfect for the slow speed off road work that my Jeep spends 90% of it's time in. However, it is still very easy for me to peg the speedo on the highway. I am running 4.56s on 33s.

Decide what your application really needs. 300+ HP, normally aspired or not, is likely to need at least premium fuel, and even then you may be running more retarded than is efficient. My guess, based on your comments, are somewhere in between my motor and the KOH motor.

Talk to Russ. He knows his stuff. He can also advise you on cam selection, as well as other components.

David Bricker / SYR

 

[cherokeeproject]

I love my motor. It has been dubbed "the motor that cannot be stalled". It's perfect for the slow speed off road work that my Jeep spends 90% of it's time in. However, it is still very easy for me to peg the speedo on the highway. I am running 4.56s on 33s.

David Bricker / SYR

that is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. However, the majority of the driving I will be doing will be on the road. I'm aiming for something a little more extreme than an expedition rig with enough power and decent fuel economy on the highway to get me where I want to go.

 

[cal]

I know the exact motor formula you're looking for. It would be in the mid 9 ballpark on compression, and have a cam similar to the Comp 235-4 but modified for fuel injection. To really wake it up, you'll want a lot of chamber work in the head (deshrouding the valves) and a little bit of port work.

But, I'll say the same thing I said before, talk it over with Russ @ Bishop-Buehl. He can build the motor for you, or he can sell you the parts if you want to try and do it yourself. There are other stroker shops around (Hesco, 505 Performance, Titan, Golan, ATK) but most of those are pretty cookie cutter, and none of them are of the same quality. Every single motor Russ puts out is a unique snowflake tailored to the desires of the guy buying it.

 

[cherokeeproject]

I know the exact motor formula you're looking for. It would be in the mid 9 ballpark on compression, and have a cam similar to the Comp 235-4 but modified for fuel injection. To really wake it up, you'll want a lot of chamber work in the head (deshrouding the valves) and a little bit of port work.

But, I'll say the same thing I said before, talk it over with Russ @ Bishop-Buehl. He can build the motor for you, or he can sell you the parts if you want to try and do it yourself. There are other stroker shops around (Hesco, 505 Performance, Titan, Golan, ATK) but most of those are pretty cookie cutter, and none of them are of the same quality. Every single motor Russ puts out is a unique snowflake tailored to the desires of the guy buying it.

looks like i'll have to give him a call sooner than I thought. im sure he could shed some light on what exactly i'll need.

Has anyone run 4.10's or 4.11's with 35's and a stroker? Just wondering how that would perform on and off the highway. <<< this is just more for curiosity, im trying to get some perspective here, but i'll probably stick with the 4.56's if I can still peg the speedo on the highway ;-)

 

[cal]

You'd have adequate power, but get like 6 mpg (I may be exaggerating, but not by a lot).

You want to be running in the ballpark of 2500 RPM's on the freeway, with that tall of a gearset, you're always going to be under load and using too much throttle.

 

[cherokeeproject]

Just wanted to piggy back on this real quick and ask everyone their opinion of getting the 4.2L crank offset ground in order to increase the stroke. anyone done this? Whats their experience with it, pro's & Cons?

Im posting a little pre-mature since I haven't done a search yet but I just wanted some input.

 

[cal]

You aren't going to gain enough to be worth the trouble, and you add a ton of expense - custom pistons, etc - none of the budget formula's or off of the shelf rotating assembly parts would work.

 

[cherokeeproject]

You aren't going to gain enough to be worth the trouble, and you add a ton of expense - custom pistons, etc - none of the budget formula's or off of the shelf rotating assembly parts would work.

that would be no fun.. but why would custom pistons be needed?

 

[cal]

With an offset grind, you're pushing the rod further up the cylinder, and the piston will hit the head.

 

[CobraMarty]

Newcommer Racing makes 361 N/A hp.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245981940&postcount=22

 

[cal]

that thread is pretty useless without links and proof. just a guy who's known for spouting BS making claims of other peoples deeds.

 

[cherokeeproject]

With an offset grind, you're pushing the rod further up the cylinder, and the piston will hit the head.

well if I go this route then a lot more calculations would need to be done. I cant really explain why i've got my heart set on breaching the 300hp mark, (its an internal drive I guess) I just really want to say ive got 300+ pony's under the hood in a jeep, for some reason it just puts a smile on my face . Either way im just going to build the best damn motor I can afford to and what I get is what I get, im sure i'll be happy either way. And the amount of respect I would get form us 4.0 guys would be worth it. Needless to say im just researching options since the knowledgebase here far surpasses that of my own. However, I would like to dwell on the thought of running an offset crank for a second.

So, IF an offset crank were used it would be ground to a ~3.915" stroke, from the original 3.895" stroke on the 4.2L crank with a .040" overbore cylinder giving a 3.915" bore that should put an extra 1.5 cu in from the crank. wow, I just realized how much work that is just for the extra 1.5"... that's ridiculous. o well an increase is an increase. and if you assume ~ 1hp per cubic inch, you get a whopping 1.5hp boost! (so im writing this as im doing the math and yes I know how lame this sounds...)

 

[cal]

well if I go this route then a lot more calculations would need to be done. I cant really explain why i've got my heart set on breaching the 300hp mark, (its an internal drive I guess) I just really want to say ive got 300+ pony's under the hood in a jeep, for some reason it just puts a smile on my face . Either way im just going to build the best damn motor I can afford to and what I get is what I get, im sure i'll be happy either way. And the amount of respect I would get form us 4.0 guys would be worth it. Needless to say im just researching options since the knowledgebase here far surpasses that of my own. However, I would like to dwell on the thought of running an offset crank for a second.

So, IF an offset crank were used it would be ground to a ~3.915" stroke, from the original 3.895" stroke on the 4.2L crank with a .040" overbore cylinder giving a 3.915" bore that should put an extra 1.5 cu in from the crank. wow, I just realized how much work that is just for the extra 1.5"... that's ridiculous. o well an increase is an increase. and if you assume ~ 1hp per cubic inch, you get a whopping 1.5hp boost! (so im writing this as im doing the math and yes I know how lame this sounds...)

I can tell you that I have more than 300 horses under the hood of my jeep without boost.

expect to spend 6 to 8 thousand if you want it to hold up.

 

[cherokeeproject]

I can tell you that I have more than 300 horses under the hood of my jeep without boost.

expect to spend 6 to 8 thousand if you want it to hold up.

well then, I'll need to change the stats on my profile.

I now drive a 1996 Cherokee with a 1000+ hp nitro methane injected 502 big block on 49" tires and a trussed D30 axel. :-D