350 hp naturally aspirated Inline 6

I wasn't offended at all, just offering some tech there, and giving you a ballpark price if you actually want to go for that goal.
 
cal said:
I wasn't offended at all, just offering some tech there, and giving you a ballpark price if you actually want to go for that goal.
Click to expand...

ya im noticing the escalating cost. since changing the stroke will only give a few extra cubic inches but would cost several hundred dollars at least to get the crank done. so the cost per hp increase is not very effective. Im just trying to think outside the box and do something a little different.
 
The big power comes from head work, cam selection, quench, and proper fuel curve. Displacement isn't nothing, but going from 4.6 to 4.7 or 4.9 is minimal.
 
They have some pretty pictures. I didn't see any dyno numbers other than some claims.. :)
 
I didn't realize you had experience with the engines newcomer is putting out, we've all see their youtube vids but have you actually seen one of their engines in person? either in a jeep or on the dyno, i'd like some real world feedback... and I think that's what the OP was looking for.
 
I'm sure its in there somewhere.

Its somewhere around 12:1, runs 100 octane pump gas, with a custom cam similar to a comp 239. We spin it up around 6400 RPM's and people magically get out of our way.

If you want too many more details than that, you'll need to talk to Russ @ Bishop-Buehl. :)
 
Unless you HAVE to stay with the 4.0L due to regulations/rules (i.e. live in CA or need to stay with the 4.0L to keep within spec of racing/crawling class)...I still don't understand building a 4.0L up that much.

You want 300+ hp on a 4.0L...and have a budget.

*insertfacepalmsmiley*

So you get to 300+ and then are "maxed" out...and have a motor that is technically "weaker" and prone to failing overall.

It's already been said...but what makes the most sense is a 5.3L swap.

I've seen many guys, and had the opportunity myself to pick up an entire 5.3L drivetrain (engine, trans, t-case, wiring, all accessories) for under $1000. With the popularity of the 6.0L swaps, 5.3's are just getting lower in price and more available. Spend another $1500 on gauges, mounts, exhaust, etc. and you would have a V8 swapped in for sub $3k.

Its kinda like when someone builds the hell out of a D30. Most people will say unless you really need to or want to stay with a D30 (i.e. never going above a 33" tire) then go another route. But the same applies (and we've all seen it)...where that person then decides they want to go above a 33" later on. Then there they are again...had they just done the D44, D60, 609 swap they wouldn't having build a whole 'nother axle.

5.3L > Built 4.0L

5.3L = ~280ish HP stock.
Built 5.3L...skys the limit.
Going to be more reliable as well...

This is all coming from someone who has the 4.0L in his buggy :D
 
There's a lot to be said for an LS swap.

I'd go that route if we didn't have to stay 4.0.
 
i agree the power limits of the v8 swap are much greater than the 4.0 but i really don't see a point to running anything over 400hp in a Cherokee. I can hit the upper 300's if i go supercharged with the 4.0 stroked. The price is debatable, if you can find me a writeup or something that shows someone doing a full swap with a parts list that i can reference and doing it all without the use of a full scale machine shop at their disposal for less than $5k then i'll give it more thought. And once again your starting with a motor and drivetrain that are less than $1000 so im not betting too highly on the quality of the motor for that price.

now don't get me wrong here im not opposed to doing a v8 swap, ide love to do one in my wifes old wrangler (once i can track down the guy who bought it) one day. but for this particular application the 4.0 will be more than enough and it wont require so much of my time to complete it. so i'll have more time to enjoy it and less time building
 
At the upper 3's, that would be the most unreliable 4.0 on the planet. :)
 
The thrust bearing goes first, followed by the cam bearings, lifters and rods.

They just aren't designed for the kind of compression and RPM that much power puts out. We're probably in the mid 3's with ours, and while its holding up ok, others with similar motors are rebuilding them every season or more. The 4.0 is basically a 1950's tractor motor that kept getting tweaked but never really redesigned.
 
cal said:
There's a lot to be said for an LS swap.

I'd go that route if we didn't have to stay 4.0.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine going from the 4.0L to an LS for KOH :D

I bet you and Richard would be grinning from ear to ear, after you cleaned your pants a couple times :D

cherokeeproject said:
i agree the power limits of the v8 swap are much greater than the 4.0 but i really don't see a point to running anything over 400hp in a Cherokee. I can hit the upper 300's if i go supercharged with the 4.0 stroked. The price is debatable, if you can find me a writeup or something that shows someone doing a full swap with a parts list that i can reference and doing it all without the use of a full scale machine shop at their disposal for less than $5k then i'll give it more thought. And once again your starting with a motor and drivetrain that are less than $1000 so im not betting too highly on the quality of the motor for that price.

now don't get me wrong here im not opposed to doing a v8 swap, ide love to do one in my wifes old wrangler (once i can track down the guy who bought it) one day. but for this particular application the 4.0 will be more than enough and it wont require so much of my time to complete it. so i'll have more time to enjoy it and less time building
Click to expand...

You might try searching around here more then.

Several here have done the 5.3L swap...search FrankZ.

For $1000, the drivetrains I've seen have been nice, with less than 140k on the clock. Don't think just because it was cheap, its crap. There were a LOT of 5.3L's made. Most the guys I've known that have picked them up, bought the entire truck. Most of them parted out the truck they were in and actually ended up with a free 5.3L.

"but i really don't see a point to running anything over 400hp in a Cherokee"

You say that now...

My point is more to what Cal mentions below. Sure you'll get to 300+, but don't be surprised when parts start to fail, and your needing to rebuild your engine.

Pushing more air, reducing cylinder wall thickness, upping compression...these things don't make a motor any stronger.

Upping the HP in an XJ has been done MANY MANY more times than you think.

Most who end up trying to build their 4.0 end up wishing they had just done a V8.

There is a reason I won't be doing anything to the 4.0L when I want more power in the buggy. I'll be going straight to a 6.0L LQ9. 350-400 hp with little modification, and practically plug and play (though yes this is not a "cheap" route).

cal said:
The thrust bearing goes first, followed by the cam bearings, lifters and rods.

They just aren't designed for the kind of compression and RPM that much power puts out. We're probably in the mid 3's with ours, and while its holding up ok, others with similar motors are rebuilding them every season or more. The 4.0 is basically a 1950's tractor motor that kept getting tweaked but never really redesigned.
Click to expand...
 
freerider15 said:
"but i really don't see a point to running anything over 400hp in a Cherokee"

You say that now...
Click to expand...

you know me all too well....

however, I have read some write ups with some guys building their strokers for less than $1500, when they collect parts over time. The budget im shooting for is roughly $2000 give or take a $100... with this im also hoping to redo the intake and exhaust.
 
cherokeeproject said:
you know me all too well....

however, I have read some write ups with some guys building their strokers for less than $1500, when they collect parts over time. The budget im shooting for is roughly $2000 give or take a $100... with this im also hoping to redo the intake and exhaust.
Click to expand...

For $1500 and a properly built stroker...I would assume those guys had access to a machine shop?

I've seen/heard of more strokers failing than living over time. With anything engine related...it has do be done VERY precisely. When it comes to modifying the engine block itself, the risk goes up and the amount of precision does too. .001" can be the difference between an engine living and never needing a rebuild...or practically detonating itself.

I can understand why people initially want to go with modifying the 4.0L. You already have it, its rather plug and pay, etc.

Thing is, it ain't always that easy.

I hate motor crap (my least strong area though I'm a Mech. Engineer...right behind electrical :D)
 
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