frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Anyone have comments on preheating to help smaller welders get it done? I used the German spec... "Guddenhot" but didn't investigate whether there are rules of thumb.
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Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)
- Thread starter frijolee
- Start date
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Still interested in welding/preheat discussion (please comment if you can), but I have one more post to share to bring efforts up to current....
Floorboard Repair:
Public service announcement: 96-01 Cherokee’s have a design flaw in the fresh air intake for the cab. If you remove the wiper access panel just behind the hood and shove a camera in the cowl, here’s the difference.
Early model XJs:
Late model XJs:
There’s a great deal more information here (full credit to these folks for the pictures above as well):
http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/water-leaking-cowl-34969/
That nonexistent lip on the later model version means that if it rains and your Jeep has the nose pointing at all uphill, you’ll get water that leaks through the cowl and soaks your passenger floorboard. Even using textured rubber floor mats, I’d still managed to soak the carpet half a dozen times before I figured it that nose up was part of the reason why it happened. There are two solutions:
Solution Option 1) Cut through the cowl from the exterior, caulk the offending area and weld a patch back in. If you try this approach you better do it well because if your cut and patch leaks it’s headed straight into the intake.
Solution Option 2) Always park your Jeep with the nose pointing downhill, which is what I’ve been doing since I found out about this mess.
While working on frame stiffeners, I saw some cancer starting to show through the bottom of the floorboard, apparently from the inside. I yanked my passenger seat and pulled up the carpet to investigate. Yikes!
Rust completely covered the floorboard, which the exception of the sound deadening. It’s the only rust on my Jeep that I know of, but it’s bad…
Through holes confirmed.
I got in there aggressively with a wire wheel and suddenly I had quite a few holes showing.
I wire wheeled the bottom side too for good measure and now it was really pretty screwed looking.
A lot of folks jump directly to a reproduction floorboard and cut the whole thing out this point. I thought about that, but sometimes you end up compromising integrity instead of adding to it (seams rusting), and fit can be less than ideal. Instead I decided to try a version of rust conversion and encapsulation from POR-15. http://www.por15.com/Floor-Pan-Repair_ep_77.html.
I figured worst case if it didn’t work out, I’d be cutting out the metal anyways, but might teach me some new methods I could use on the Land Cruiser.
The trick to patching holes with POR-15 is either by using their Epoxy Putty or embedding fiberglass in the POR while wet (effectively using POR as a fiberglass resin). They call it Powermesh. I call it fiberglass chop strand mat and say “I’ll use whatever fiberglass I want, thank you very much.”
Prep maters a great deal with POR-15, so with the exception of fiberglass vs. Powermesh, I tried to follow the process. The recommended steps are:
1) Marine Degreaser, rinse,
2) Metal Prep, rinse, dry.
3) Por 15
4) Top Coat (optional, only if exposed to UV)
Note Por-15s “Metal Prep” is a rust conversion fluid much like “Evapo-Rust” which I converts iron oxide (rust) to ferric phosphate (or similar), after which it can be encapsulated with limited opportunity for future growth. You need to keep the area wet for at least a half hour in Metal Prep. I used a spray bottle periodically for more like an hour then let it sit overnight because I didn’t see much downside to doing so.
Here it is after Metal Prep.
I used three layers of glass: a fine weave to get into the corners, a heavy layer of roving to build up some thickness and give me some strength, then another layer of fine weave up top.
I taped over the holes from the bottom to keep drips at bay…
… and then went to town inside. Paint the bare steel, apply a layer of glass, repeat. I basically painted over each layer and pressed it into all the nooks and crannies as it went down to be sure it was fully wetted out. All three layers went down back to back to back.
This stuff is pretty stinky so ventilation and an organic trap cartridge mask are both good calls.
While still wet, I yanked off the tape from below and painted the bottom side. You could see just a touch of POR flowing through the holes from the topside (blooming effects at the corner of some holes).
Next day went out and it seems to have still picked up some crap as it leveled and flowed through. Maybe letting the Metal Prep sit overnight made it harder to get 100% rinsed. Not really sure.
The imperfections on the bottom side didn’t seem like a big deal as it was still REALLY solid feeling. I then used some of POR 15’s epoxy putty to fill and smooth the gaps where metal was missing. That stuff cures damn hard as well. Sanded it most of the way out and all that’s left to do is one more coat of paint. That’ll happen at the same time as the body frame rails.
Last few note on POR 15… It’ll break down with UV light, so you need to use their Top Coat paint if it’ll see sunshine (step 4 noted above). You could probably paint with anything, but paint is enough of a dark art that I prefer to stick to a single system where I can.
Finally, when capping the can it’s recommended to stick a couple layers of saran wrap between can and lid. If you get any on the paint can seal, that lid is not coming back off.
Oh, and naturally since I limped my Jeep back in the driveway with two ratchet straps in lieu of a track bar, I’m parked nose up. Seriously what are the odds of Southern California have rain in early September? Yep, we had a freak weather day and it already rained once, but I at least I can still confirm that the new area is water tight (that’s one step better than a raw replacement floorboard so I’d recommend POR 15 either way).
Need to retap the holes for my seat and shave down some pointy edges inside, but the major fix looks good so I thought I’d post up. Let me know if you have thoughts on POR 15 as I expect to be using this a bunch more on projects going forward.
-Joel
Floorboard Repair:
Public service announcement: 96-01 Cherokee’s have a design flaw in the fresh air intake for the cab. If you remove the wiper access panel just behind the hood and shove a camera in the cowl, here’s the difference.
Early model XJs:
Late model XJs:
There’s a great deal more information here (full credit to these folks for the pictures above as well):
http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/water-leaking-cowl-34969/
That nonexistent lip on the later model version means that if it rains and your Jeep has the nose pointing at all uphill, you’ll get water that leaks through the cowl and soaks your passenger floorboard. Even using textured rubber floor mats, I’d still managed to soak the carpet half a dozen times before I figured it that nose up was part of the reason why it happened. There are two solutions:
Solution Option 1) Cut through the cowl from the exterior, caulk the offending area and weld a patch back in. If you try this approach you better do it well because if your cut and patch leaks it’s headed straight into the intake.
Solution Option 2) Always park your Jeep with the nose pointing downhill, which is what I’ve been doing since I found out about this mess.
While working on frame stiffeners, I saw some cancer starting to show through the bottom of the floorboard, apparently from the inside. I yanked my passenger seat and pulled up the carpet to investigate. Yikes!
Rust completely covered the floorboard, which the exception of the sound deadening. It’s the only rust on my Jeep that I know of, but it’s bad…
Through holes confirmed.
I got in there aggressively with a wire wheel and suddenly I had quite a few holes showing.
I wire wheeled the bottom side too for good measure and now it was really pretty screwed looking.
A lot of folks jump directly to a reproduction floorboard and cut the whole thing out this point. I thought about that, but sometimes you end up compromising integrity instead of adding to it (seams rusting), and fit can be less than ideal. Instead I decided to try a version of rust conversion and encapsulation from POR-15. http://www.por15.com/Floor-Pan-Repair_ep_77.html.
I figured worst case if it didn’t work out, I’d be cutting out the metal anyways, but might teach me some new methods I could use on the Land Cruiser.
The trick to patching holes with POR-15 is either by using their Epoxy Putty or embedding fiberglass in the POR while wet (effectively using POR as a fiberglass resin). They call it Powermesh. I call it fiberglass chop strand mat and say “I’ll use whatever fiberglass I want, thank you very much.”
Prep maters a great deal with POR-15, so with the exception of fiberglass vs. Powermesh, I tried to follow the process. The recommended steps are:
1) Marine Degreaser, rinse,
2) Metal Prep, rinse, dry.
3) Por 15
4) Top Coat (optional, only if exposed to UV)
Note Por-15s “Metal Prep” is a rust conversion fluid much like “Evapo-Rust” which I converts iron oxide (rust) to ferric phosphate (or similar), after which it can be encapsulated with limited opportunity for future growth. You need to keep the area wet for at least a half hour in Metal Prep. I used a spray bottle periodically for more like an hour then let it sit overnight because I didn’t see much downside to doing so.
Here it is after Metal Prep.
I used three layers of glass: a fine weave to get into the corners, a heavy layer of roving to build up some thickness and give me some strength, then another layer of fine weave up top.
I taped over the holes from the bottom to keep drips at bay…
… and then went to town inside. Paint the bare steel, apply a layer of glass, repeat. I basically painted over each layer and pressed it into all the nooks and crannies as it went down to be sure it was fully wetted out. All three layers went down back to back to back.
This stuff is pretty stinky so ventilation and an organic trap cartridge mask are both good calls.
While still wet, I yanked off the tape from below and painted the bottom side. You could see just a touch of POR flowing through the holes from the topside (blooming effects at the corner of some holes).
Next day went out and it seems to have still picked up some crap as it leveled and flowed through. Maybe letting the Metal Prep sit overnight made it harder to get 100% rinsed. Not really sure.
The imperfections on the bottom side didn’t seem like a big deal as it was still REALLY solid feeling. I then used some of POR 15’s epoxy putty to fill and smooth the gaps where metal was missing. That stuff cures damn hard as well. Sanded it most of the way out and all that’s left to do is one more coat of paint. That’ll happen at the same time as the body frame rails.
Last few note on POR 15… It’ll break down with UV light, so you need to use their Top Coat paint if it’ll see sunshine (step 4 noted above). You could probably paint with anything, but paint is enough of a dark art that I prefer to stick to a single system where I can.
Finally, when capping the can it’s recommended to stick a couple layers of saran wrap between can and lid. If you get any on the paint can seal, that lid is not coming back off.
Oh, and naturally since I limped my Jeep back in the driveway with two ratchet straps in lieu of a track bar, I’m parked nose up. Seriously what are the odds of Southern California have rain in early September? Yep, we had a freak weather day and it already rained once, but I at least I can still confirm that the new area is water tight (that’s one step better than a raw replacement floorboard so I’d recommend POR 15 either way).
Need to retap the holes for my seat and shave down some pointy edges inside, but the major fix looks good so I thought I’d post up. Let me know if you have thoughts on POR 15 as I expect to be using this a bunch more on projects going forward.
-Joel
I've always been told stories of the por flaking off after it ages, my plan is, and if I were you I would follow up the floor and the "frame" and underside with a good name brand liner like line x or monstaliner after you get your stiffs on. Just to help hold it all together and add another good layer of protection to the underside. I'm saving for a 5 gal jug then I'm just gonna go to town lol
- Location
- Denver, CO
Lookin' good!
I too weld with a small mig from time to time. Generally you get a little extra weld heat using flux core but it splatters a lot.
I am not a welding expert at all but I find it best not to do the thick stuff (1/4" and beyond) in one pass. I like to do a small root pass then fill it with another larger pass at high wire feed rate for a final weld while the metal is still hot.
I wouldn't lose sleep over any of those welds though. Looks clean for overhead welding :thumbup:
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Thanks Nick, I used the tip on a separate root pass, burning my rear shock mount back on. I'll get pics of that in a bit. I'm falling behind on posting vs. building again, so maybe I just fire these in smaller pieces.
First up, bastard pack build.
Tore everything down in my entry way so I could join in on a movie the wife had on.
MJ leaves use a 3/8" center pin rather than the XJ's 5/16" so I drilled out all the leaves to match. Spring steel will drill, but you need a sharp bit and cutting fluid. I did about half with my standard HF set and then jumped up to the Cobalt for the rest after I sharped the bit for the second time.
Spread out and looking rusty...
Went a little crazy with an angle grinder and wire wheel. I hate rust.
I did discover that aggressive use of a wire wheel makes for perfect edge deburring so I hit all the center pins holes I'd drilled larger with that to avoid stress risers.
Much nicer. Yeah, couldn't help it. Even cleaned up the leaves I'm not using so I can play with them later.
Set up a sawhorse station and gave all the leaves I will be using a thorough acetone clean and paint (primer plus rattle can epoxy enamel).
So how many leaves to use? Never did get distinct advise so I decided to start simple and just swapped one leaf. It's one that was a direct replacement (no clips). I could swap another in if I want more but I'd need to redo the leaf clips so I decided to start small and see how it looked.
At rest it gained about 2". Here's one side assembled vs. the other mains unconstrained.
Have to see how it lands once I get them installed.
First up, bastard pack build.
Tore everything down in my entry way so I could join in on a movie the wife had on.
MJ leaves use a 3/8" center pin rather than the XJ's 5/16" so I drilled out all the leaves to match. Spring steel will drill, but you need a sharp bit and cutting fluid. I did about half with my standard HF set and then jumped up to the Cobalt for the rest after I sharped the bit for the second time.
Spread out and looking rusty...
Went a little crazy with an angle grinder and wire wheel. I hate rust.
I did discover that aggressive use of a wire wheel makes for perfect edge deburring so I hit all the center pins holes I'd drilled larger with that to avoid stress risers.
Much nicer. Yeah, couldn't help it. Even cleaned up the leaves I'm not using so I can play with them later.
Set up a sawhorse station and gave all the leaves I will be using a thorough acetone clean and paint (primer plus rattle can epoxy enamel).
So how many leaves to use? Never did get distinct advise so I decided to start simple and just swapped one leaf. It's one that was a direct replacement (no clips). I could swap another in if I want more but I'd need to redo the leaf clips so I decided to start small and see how it looked.
At rest it gained about 2". Here's one side assembled vs. the other mains unconstrained.
Have to see how it lands once I get them installed.
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Random welding projects to post today.
Finally got around to welding my rear shock mount back on. Since the axle has been clocked for pinion alignment, the shock was bottoming on this mount first.
Decided to try for a bit of extra room so I re-clocked the mount slightly so they'd sit more evenly at the current axle orientation.
Scribe shows how much I moved it.
Burned in. Dual pass per Mauler's suggestion (Thanks)
Also added a touch of weld to the other side since these mounts were previously only welded on the sides.
Finally got around to welding my rear shock mount back on. Since the axle has been clocked for pinion alignment, the shock was bottoming on this mount first.
Decided to try for a bit of extra room so I re-clocked the mount slightly so they'd sit more evenly at the current axle orientation.
Scribe shows how much I moved it.
Burned in. Dual pass per Mauler's suggestion (Thanks)
Also added a touch of weld to the other side since these mounts were previously only welded on the sides.
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
My rear bump stops were in bad shape. As in cracking and one finally fell apart bad shape.
Managed to snap two of the four screws taking them apart too. Apparently you have to drown everything in PB blaster days before working on anything original under a Jeep. Lame.
Anyways, I tried to weld nuts to what was left.
But they just tore right back off. I'm thinking seriously about plating over the area since I wanted to add to the stiffeners and someone pointed out earlier the bumps can cave the frame rail if you really use them. That let's me start fresh with bump stop extension pad and new threads.
Questions:
Anyone have ideas about how much total bump stop length I might want when using 10" Bilstein 5100's in back? (33-151663 for 5-6" lift).
Alternatively, any tips for confirming bump stop location? IE is it reasonable to assume the leaf would be flat and straight under full bump? If yes, I think I could stuff the axle with shocks but without leaf springs. In my head I just raise to shock bind and locate fore/aft using a measurement from frame mount to axle pad that's the same as the arc length between those points on the springs.
Managed to snap two of the four screws taking them apart too. Apparently you have to drown everything in PB blaster days before working on anything original under a Jeep. Lame.
Anyways, I tried to weld nuts to what was left.
But they just tore right back off. I'm thinking seriously about plating over the area since I wanted to add to the stiffeners and someone pointed out earlier the bumps can cave the frame rail if you really use them. That let's me start fresh with bump stop extension pad and new threads.
Questions:
Anyone have ideas about how much total bump stop length I might want when using 10" Bilstein 5100's in back? (33-151663 for 5-6" lift).
Alternatively, any tips for confirming bump stop location? IE is it reasonable to assume the leaf would be flat and straight under full bump? If yes, I think I could stuff the axle with shocks but without leaf springs. In my head I just raise to shock bind and locate fore/aft using a measurement from frame mount to axle pad that's the same as the arc length between those points on the springs.
- Location
- Murrieta
You can go slightly negative arch at bump, probably no more than an 1". The more negative arch the shorter the life of the springs.
To check for bump stops, if you still have a main leaf laying around, install the main leaf with a block of wood under it to simulate the thickness of your spring pack. Bolt it up with your U-bolts, jack up the axle until the main is flat and you have the length of the bump stop. I would check both vertically, and with the axle articulated.
To check for bump stops, if you still have a main leaf laying around, install the main leaf with a block of wood under it to simulate the thickness of your spring pack. Bolt it up with your U-bolts, jack up the axle until the main is flat and you have the length of the bump stop. I would check both vertically, and with the axle articulated.
VAhasnoWAVES
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Lake City, Mi
i have a 33-185552 from bilstein. same shock basically, different valving. used the factory upper mount, relocated the lower a bit.
i dont have great photos of what i did. but... i used 1.5x.25 DOM scrap to make towers off of the axle tube. and then put a 3" round plate on top for stacking hockey pucks. i think i ended up about 5" off the axle tube? it stuffs 35s pretty well, and i use all 10" of the shocks.
i dont have great photos of what i did. but... i used 1.5x.25 DOM scrap to make towers off of the axle tube. and then put a 3" round plate on top for stacking hockey pucks. i think i ended up about 5" off the axle tube? it stuffs 35s pretty well, and i use all 10" of the shocks.
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Stocker,
Great tip on the single main leaf. I'm wishing I would have asked this earlier as I already reassembled my leaf pack and the only spare mains I have are the MJ (too long, big arc). With your confirmation that I want to set bump stops with the pack close to flat I think I'll start with the measurement approach and see how it looks. I'm thinking I could even build in multiple threaded points to my extension so I can shift the bumps fore and aft and be sure it engages the tube well.
VAhas,
Thanks for the pic and dimensions. I think I've got the concept. Is there any distinct difference between building up off the axle and building down off the frame? I was thinking the later but that's partly because of my fubar'ed bump stop bolts. Your rig looks mean!
Great tip on the single main leaf. I'm wishing I would have asked this earlier as I already reassembled my leaf pack and the only spare mains I have are the MJ (too long, big arc). With your confirmation that I want to set bump stops with the pack close to flat I think I'll start with the measurement approach and see how it looks. I'm thinking I could even build in multiple threaded points to my extension so I can shift the bumps fore and aft and be sure it engages the tube well.
VAhas,
Thanks for the pic and dimensions. I think I've got the concept. Is there any distinct difference between building up off the axle and building down off the frame? I was thinking the later but that's partly because of my fubar'ed bump stop bolts. Your rig looks mean!
- Location
- Murrieta
In that case, install your replacement bump stop, flex out your jeep and measure the delta between the axle to bump stop. You can then build a 'spacer' plate between the unibody and the bump stop, or if the delta is large, add a some of the space between the bump stop and unibody, and then add an extension off the axle tube.
I am betting since you increased the thickness of your spring pack and have a lift shackle, your tire will get into the wheel well before your go negative arch. I'd be curious what you find...
I am betting since you increased the thickness of your spring pack and have a lift shackle, your tire will get into the wheel well before your go negative arch. I'd be curious what you find...
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Well, I tried full compression without the leaf springs.
Best guess if I want to engage the bump 1" before the shocks bottom I should be using a 1.5" standoff in addition to the longer Daystar bumps. I had maybe 3/4" clear passenger, 3/8" driver but my pinion angle was only ballparked with blocks. I could also make the standoff 1" tall and run spacers to really dial it in.
It actually leaves a good amount of clearance to the fenders (albeit flexed out is probably minimum fender clearance and I'd like to go 33's for my next set, it's on 32s and 4:10 gears now).
Does that all look reasonable?
The axle is quite a floopy noodle without the leaf springs. I wasn't thinking about the fact that the offset shocks (front/rear of axle) would try to make the axle pivot in yaw as I raised it. The above pics should be for elevation only. Fore/aft I'll have to set separately.
By the way, are shock boots a good idea or a bad idea? Seems like they could trap junk but should prevent debris thrown by front tires from striking shafts. I'm not that convinced they'll live regardless so maybe I just run them till they die.
-Joel
Best guess if I want to engage the bump 1" before the shocks bottom I should be using a 1.5" standoff in addition to the longer Daystar bumps. I had maybe 3/4" clear passenger, 3/8" driver but my pinion angle was only ballparked with blocks. I could also make the standoff 1" tall and run spacers to really dial it in.
It actually leaves a good amount of clearance to the fenders (albeit flexed out is probably minimum fender clearance and I'd like to go 33's for my next set, it's on 32s and 4:10 gears now).
Does that all look reasonable?
The axle is quite a floopy noodle without the leaf springs. I wasn't thinking about the fact that the offset shocks (front/rear of axle) would try to make the axle pivot in yaw as I raised it. The above pics should be for elevation only. Fore/aft I'll have to set separately.
By the way, are shock boots a good idea or a bad idea? Seems like they could trap junk but should prevent debris thrown by front tires from striking shafts. I'm not that convinced they'll live regardless so maybe I just run them till they die.
-Joel
Last edited:
- Location
- San Diego
looks good.
shock boots: I wouldn't spend time taking them off, but I wouldn't worry about them if they tore/came off.
shock boots: I wouldn't spend time taking them off, but I wouldn't worry about them if they tore/came off.
VAhasnoWAVES
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Lake City, Mi
thanks... i dont think so. as long as it hits square at full bump right?
i just wanted to make sure i tied to the tube itself. i had pads that were welded to the leaf spring top plate and braced against the leaf before. they worked... but i dont know, never felt good about them.
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Prepping all my stuff to finally put the rear bits back together. Noted my junkyard ZJ backing plates had some pretty nasty grooves in them, decided to do something about that.
Wire wheeled the interfaces to clean up before welding (here's both sides to get an idea of before and after)
Tig welded with a bit of pre-heat and 309L filler rod. These were probably the first castings I've welded on that I though actually welded nicely (no sputtering or weirdness).
Ground back by hand (angle grinder/flap disc) to the proper profile.
OCD satisfied... Now moving back to other things.
Wire wheeled the interfaces to clean up before welding (here's both sides to get an idea of before and after)
Tig welded with a bit of pre-heat and 309L filler rod. These were probably the first castings I've welded on that I though actually welded nicely (no sputtering or weirdness).
Ground back by hand (angle grinder/flap disc) to the proper profile.
OCD satisfied... Now moving back to other things.
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Made some progress over the weekend: New axles, bearings, and seals completed.
Pressing on the ZJ wheel studs (slightly longer):
I've used my HF press more times than I can remember. Good tool. Extra shims help keep things off the shiny parts in back.
By the way, I'm not happy with whatever XJ owner was the asshole and returned a used axle to Amazon (Ok, we'll pretend it was a Durango owner). Different packaging, what's this?
Used axle confirmed... Couple nicks and evidence of studs pressed prior. Too late to exchange for another so I built it up and installed anyways. May have only been a test fit as at least the bearing surfaces were virgin... I guess it's my bad for not checking my *ish when first received.
Bearings in the C8.25 are damn tight in there. My slide hammer and hook weren't getting it done, so I made a tool. I modified another slide hammer tool that had broken one side of some lightweight hooks.
Got the idea from some similar things I had seen online but most were universal and I wasn't sure they'd do what I wanted without cutting them to match. This took an hour and bit to fab but at least was free.
Checking fit:
I had to plug weld the T from the backside so it'd stay tight the threaded bit. It just barely slides in the hole. My tool is too big apparently (wait, who said that?
)
5-6 good bangs and the bearing was out.
Here's the other hook I'd tried and failed to use, comparing to my custom version.
Part numbers on the new bearings and seals.
Seals were easy to come by (bought before I found my chewed up axle), bearings a bit harder and it was a much better deal to get them both at the same time. So now I have extra seals but whatever. "Torrington Brand" means Koyo bearings (at least in this case)...
Assembly is straightforward so no pics of that.
-Joel
Pressing on the ZJ wheel studs (slightly longer):
I've used my HF press more times than I can remember. Good tool. Extra shims help keep things off the shiny parts in back.
By the way, I'm not happy with whatever XJ owner was the asshole and returned a used axle to Amazon (Ok, we'll pretend it was a Durango owner). Different packaging, what's this?
Used axle confirmed... Couple nicks and evidence of studs pressed prior. Too late to exchange for another so I built it up and installed anyways. May have only been a test fit as at least the bearing surfaces were virgin... I guess it's my bad for not checking my *ish when first received.
Bearings in the C8.25 are damn tight in there. My slide hammer and hook weren't getting it done, so I made a tool. I modified another slide hammer tool that had broken one side of some lightweight hooks.
Got the idea from some similar things I had seen online but most were universal and I wasn't sure they'd do what I wanted without cutting them to match. This took an hour and bit to fab but at least was free.
Checking fit:
I had to plug weld the T from the backside so it'd stay tight the threaded bit. It just barely slides in the hole. My tool is too big apparently (wait, who said that?
)
5-6 good bangs and the bearing was out.
Here's the other hook I'd tried and failed to use, comparing to my custom version.
Part numbers on the new bearings and seals.
Seals were easy to come by (bought before I found my chewed up axle), bearings a bit harder and it was a much better deal to get them both at the same time. So now I have extra seals but whatever. "Torrington Brand" means Koyo bearings (at least in this case)...
Assembly is straightforward so no pics of that.
-Joel
Last edited:
- Location
- San Diego
looks great.
I love the custom tool.
I love the custom tool.
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Thanks, it's kinda one of those things that while you're fabbing you can't help but think, "Someone out there sells a tool that does exactly what I want... but in the half hour I'm hunting for that, I could just about have this built and then I'm not waiting on anyone to ship me stuff."
That train of thought is usually how I end up taking the hard road and spending 3-4 hours on something I wasn't planning on, but this wasn't too bad.
That train of thought is usually how I end up taking the hard road and spending 3-4 hours on something I wasn't planning on, but this wasn't too bad.
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Finished up the ZJ rear disk brake project.
Reminder, that was started back here:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=246380863&postcount=314
Wear in backing plates cleaned up here:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=246408043&postcount=356
Backing plates bores need to be opened up a touch.
I thought I was going to get decent measurements for y'all, but it turns out the axle end has a taper so the measurement I took for that wasn't right. What you'll actually end up doing is grinding the opening until you eliminated right around 1/2 of the chamfer that's on the inside edge. Check a lot and install frequently. If it's too small it'll rub on test fit and leave you a nice mark on the hole where you need to grind more. In hindsight, it's far easier to do it this way than to try to hit a measurement and keep it round.
The existing studs will be too short for the ZJ's backing plate (it's thicker) so drive those out and replace with 3/8" grade 8 bolts 1.25" long.
I used nylocks since that's all my hardware shop had on hand but an all metal lock nut (aka c-lock nut, deformed metal nut, or deformed thread lock nut) would be better if you have them handy (nylon in a nyloc can risk melting if it gets really hot). Assumming you have coarse thread bolts you torque to 18 ft/lbs.
Bearings and seals in. Greased the seal surfaces for longer life. Also a decent shot of clips and springs.
Note, the adjuster screw wants to be dialed out so the e-brake shoes almost but don't quite rub. Bottom spring keeps the adjuster from rotating so be sure that's engaging the adjuster star well.
Shafts in, c-clip etc installed at diff end.
Rotors on (after a light sanding). Pads hook from the top, spring on the outboard pad that helps prevent pad taper on the bottom. Engagement surfaces at backing plate lightly greased.
Reminder, that was started back here:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=246380863&postcount=314
Wear in backing plates cleaned up here:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=246408043&postcount=356
Backing plates bores need to be opened up a touch.
I thought I was going to get decent measurements for y'all, but it turns out the axle end has a taper so the measurement I took for that wasn't right. What you'll actually end up doing is grinding the opening until you eliminated right around 1/2 of the chamfer that's on the inside edge. Check a lot and install frequently. If it's too small it'll rub on test fit and leave you a nice mark on the hole where you need to grind more. In hindsight, it's far easier to do it this way than to try to hit a measurement and keep it round.
The existing studs will be too short for the ZJ's backing plate (it's thicker) so drive those out and replace with 3/8" grade 8 bolts 1.25" long.
I used nylocks since that's all my hardware shop had on hand but an all metal lock nut (aka c-lock nut, deformed metal nut, or deformed thread lock nut) would be better if you have them handy (nylon in a nyloc can risk melting if it gets really hot). Assumming you have coarse thread bolts you torque to 18 ft/lbs.
Bearings and seals in. Greased the seal surfaces for longer life. Also a decent shot of clips and springs.
Note, the adjuster screw wants to be dialed out so the e-brake shoes almost but don't quite rub. Bottom spring keeps the adjuster from rotating so be sure that's engaging the adjuster star well.
Shafts in, c-clip etc installed at diff end.
Rotors on (after a light sanding). Pads hook from the top, spring on the outboard pad that helps prevent pad taper on the bottom. Engagement surfaces at backing plate lightly greased.
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