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Snap On vs ...

eflores said:
mmhmm but you also know the kind of money i make with my tools
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That I do, but then again I'm kinda anti-snap on :laugh:

They have some really nice specialty tools, but most of their stuff so is overpriced it makes me laugh (especially since not all their stuff is USA made anymore, but hell not many are any more).

I do know plenty of full-time wrenchers, and surprisingly I'm seeing more and more of them no longer going with Snap On. I guess people are getting wise enough to realize going in debt at an absurd percentage rate isn't a wise investment.

md21722 said:
$200 bucks a month isn't bad for professional equipment & tool costs. Some people have bigger cable bills.
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I guess, but then again it depends on what your doing, how your doing, and true need. I personally see snap on as more of a status symbol than actually tool quality.

I could give you a Snap On ratchet, and a say...most any other ratchet. Could YOU tell me why one is so superior, other than what a Snap On rep tries to tell you?

I'd like to see an MTR (material test report), stress vs. strain testing, torque load testing, etc. etc. done between various different Snap On tools and others. That's what it would take to convince me. The thing is, I'd be willing to bet the tests wouldn't be THAT favorable to Snap On, but that's just my gut instinct.

I know Flores will want to disagree, but they're tool boxes are a joke for what they want. They're nothing that special IMO. But once again, it's the "name" that brings the money.

I tend to look at things from a long financial standing, including use costs, loan rates, etc. and it just doesn't add up to me. If your buying everything cash, thats a little different.

But when I see guys dropping $20k on a tool box, at something like a 22% interest rate, it makes me quickly realize they aren't planning on retiring any time "soon".
 
I've broken every Craftsman ratchet I've ever owned and never used a cheater pipe on any of them. I've yet to break any of the Snap On ratchets I've ever bought, new or used. My main tool box used to be a Husky and I replaced it with a Snap On. There is a night and day difference between them. Much heavier gauge steel and deep drawers for better tool organization. Most Snap On hard line tools are still made in the U.S. - sockets, wrenches, extensions, ratchets, tool boxes, etc. Snap On does not make the best in every product they sell. Some folks may not see the difference or may not think its worth the cost, everybody is different.
 
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md21722 said:
I've broken every Craftsman ratchet I've ever owned and never used a cheater pipe on any of them. I've yet to break any of the Snap On ratchets I've ever bought, new or used. My main tool box used to be a Husky and I replaced it with a Snap On. There is a night and day difference between them. Much heavier gauge steel and deep drawers for better tool organization. Most Snap On hard line tools are still made in the U.S. - sockets, wrenches, extensions, ratchets, tool boxes, etc. Snap On does not make the best in every product they sell. Some folks may not see the difference or may not think its worth the cost, everybody is different.
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I've broken a few Craftsman, they're definitely not the Craftsman of yesteryear.

Funnily enough, I've known several people who've broken their snap on ratchets, some more than once. They got tired of it and moved to a different line. They said they didn't use a cheater either, the teeth just gave up. Now does that mean I think Snap On is crap? Nope, not by a long shot. I'd still just have to see HOW they justify their prices.

As far as the toolbox, the Husky, Craftsman, etc. are all pretty bad.

Hell, the HF boxes I would say compete with some of the big names these days weirdly enough. There's been a couple write ups going through each of the various boxes, and it was pretty shocking how well built those Chinese boxes are.

I'll still never be swayed by a Snap On tool box though. They're nice, but unless I got one for ridiculously cheap...nope. I know there's the "well you never need to buy another box like you will with the others". That's all well and good, but when I could buy several lifetimes worth of other boxes it's not the most valid argument :laugh:
 
freerider15 said:
I've broken a few Craftsman, they're definitely not the Craftsman of yesteryear.

Funnily enough, I've known several people who've broken their snap on ratchets, some more than once. They got tired of it and moved to a different line. They said they didn't use a cheater either, the teeth just gave up. Now does that mean I think Snap On is crap? Nope, not by a long shot. I'd still just have to see HOW they justify their prices.

As far as the toolbox, the Husky, Craftsman, etc. are all pretty bad.

Hell, the HF boxes I would say compete with some of the big names these days weirdly enough. There's been a couple write ups going through each of the various boxes, and it was pretty shocking how well built those Chinese boxes are.

I'll still never be swayed by a Snap On tool box though. They're nice, but unless I got one for ridiculously cheap...nope. I know there's the "well you never need to buy another box like you will with the others". That's all well and good, but when I could buy several lifetimes worth of other boxes it's not the most valid argument :laugh:
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Your last two posts are the kinds of posts I enjoy reading. As someone who is computer smart and mechanically stupid, this helps me understand more about what I need to know.

Thank you.


If you have a link to that discussion about boexs, I would really enjoy reading that. Since mine got stolen last week, I'll eventually need to replace it.
 
10+ years ago, before the patent that Snap-On had for their boxes and such I would say that they were a head of the game. But, since essentially everyone has the same tech, meow, the premium doesn't seem worth it to me.
Maybe smaller box/cart might still be "superior" to others, but otherwise not worth the cost in my eyes.
 
Snap-on boxes are way to much money. period. There's plenty of independent toolbox manufactures across the country that will build one (to your custom specs) for a fraction. I know out by me, I've been to the extreme brand toolbox company facility, and they make a hell of a product.

This is not to mention all of the other good box manufacturers.

I've been wrenching all of my life, I teach Automotive at the Community College, and I own a shop here in town.

I am not saying snap-on is junk, I have purchased, broken, abused, used, sold and still have more snap on tools than I care to really think about. I don't flat out refuse to purchase them, but I do flat out refuse to purchase them before I do any research to see if I can find it anywhere else for a better price, better quality, etc.

I talk to my students at the college who are purchasing their first toolbox before they get dead set on a Matco, Snap-on, whatever. I always tell them this, I have been fixing cars and trucks my whole life, and I have NEVER once, EVER, fixed anything with my TOOLBOX. Go buy one that locks, rolls, has a decent drawer weight, and nice ball bearing slides...look into Waterloo, Montezuma, Kennedy, Clark, Extreme, Seibel, ATD, Mountain even. Hell, go look at a craftsman PRO series. Spend your money on the tools inside the box, and then figure out how the heck to use them.

Snap-on tools break, Matco tools break, MAC? it breaks too. Cornwell??? It breaks the same. make a list of every tool brand and it will break just like the rest of it. I am not sure if the Chinese are catching up, or if the US is slowing down, but big box tool makers better watch out. Danaher is buying everything, and selling tools at about .30 on the $$ that are just as good.

Key thing I am finding out these days is, before making tool purchases, do some reading, read some reviews, call some tech friends of yours and ask questions. Tools are an investment in your future (if you do this for a living), why the hell would you just buy what comes of the truck that stops by every Tuesday with out looking around? The only time I do this is if the car is half apart on of my racks and HOLY **** I NEED THIS SPECIAL OOFY DOOF RIGHT ****ING NOW. You wouldn't go buy a car without doing a little homework, so why should your 80 tooth snap-on ratchet be any different? We live in a day where all the information you ever wanted is at your fingertips...GO USE IT.

As for rockwell hardness testing, strain testing, and all of the other tests that were mentioned...all of that has been done, and its available. All of the the big companies have done this research, and if you call they will gladly give it to you.
 
XJ-ARNIE said:
Snap-on boxes are way to much money. period. There's plenty of independent toolbox manufactures across the country that will build one (to your custom specs) for a fraction. I know out by me, I've been to the extreme brand toolbox company facility, and they make a hell of a product.

This is not to mention all of the other good box manufacturers.

I've been wrenching all of my life, I teach Automotive at the Community College, and I own a shop here in town.

I am not saying snap-on is junk, I have purchased, broken, abused, used, sold and still have more snap on tools than I care to really think about. I don't flat out refuse to purchase them, but I do flat out refuse to purchase them before I do any research to see if I can find it anywhere else for a better price, better quality, etc.

I talk to my students at the college who are purchasing their first toolbox before they get dead set on a Matco, Snap-on, whatever. I always tell them this, I have been fixing cars and trucks my whole life, and I have NEVER once, EVER, fixed anything with my TOOLBOX. Go buy one that locks, rolls, has a decent drawer weight, and nice ball bearing slides...look into Waterloo, Montezuma, Kennedy, Clark, Extreme, Seibel, ATD, Mountain even. Hell, go look at a craftsman PRO series. Spend your money on the tools inside the box, and then figure out how the heck to use them.

Snap-on tools break, Matco tools break, MAC? it breaks too. Cornwell??? It breaks the same. make a list of every tool brand and it will break just like the rest of it. I am not sure if the Chinese are catching up, or if the US is slowing down, but big box tool makers better watch out. Danaher is buying everything, and selling tools at about .30 on the $$ that are just as good.

Key thing I am finding out these days is, before making tool purchases, do some reading, read some reviews, call some tech friends of yours and ask questions. Tools are an investment in your future (if you do this for a living), why the hell would you just buy what comes of the truck that stops by every Tuesday with out looking around? The only time I do this is if the car is half apart on of my racks and HOLY **** I NEED THIS SPECIAL OOFY DOOF RIGHT ****ING NOW. You wouldn't go buy a car without doing a little homework, so why should your 80 tooth snap-on ratchet be any different? We live in a day where all the information you ever wanted is at your fingertips...GO USE IT.

As for rockwell hardness testing, strain testing, and all of the other tests that were mentioned...all of that has been done, and its available. All of the the big companies have done this research, and if you call they will gladly give it to you.
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Great post, that's pretty much what I've gotten from quite a few I know that have been wrenching and/or wrenching for a living longer than I've been alive.

As far as the testing, I didn't see it listed anywhere offhand, but good to know it's out there. The problem I have is the "fox in the hen house" deal that you'll get with most manufacturers. Just like with anything, "boosting" your numbers a little bit or configuring the data to read one way isn't out of the question.

That being said, I doubt they do much of it.

Thing is, I'd be interested to see some of the big name brands compared, and then compared to some of the Chinese "junk". Right now, I would put it that outside of specialty tools, I'd rely on a Harbor Freight ratchet (their "higher" line), than I would a Craftsman (since they were moved to China as well). One is going to be a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to replace as well.
 
freerider15 said:
Great post, that's pretty much what I've gotten from quite a few I know that have been wrenching and/or wrenching for a living longer than I've been alive.

As far as the testing, I didn't see it listed anywhere offhand, but good to know it's out there. The problem I have is the "fox in the hen house" deal that you'll get with most manufacturers. Just like with anything, "boosting" your numbers a little bit or configuring the data to read one way isn't out of the question.

That being said, I doubt they do much of it.

Thing is, I'd be interested to see some of the big name brands compared, and then compared to some of the Chinese "junk". Right now, I would put it that outside of specialty tools, I'd rely on a Harbor Freight ratchet (their "higher" line), than I would a Craftsman (since they were moved to China as well). One is going to be a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to replace as well.
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You've got to look 3rd party. Look online for tool metal suppliers, its all buried in their websites somewhere. There's a company down the street from my shop that supplies metal to a bunch of big box American made tools. You'd be surprised who's using the same alloys to make their tools. Now obviously, what they do with that metal after they purchase it can make or break (no pun intended) the ultimate end user product, but its nice to know where what company starts with.

Also, there's companies that do third party r and d testing. They may or may not give up the information, but mostly, in the industrial side of their product line, all of these tools have been sold to the government at some point, so its available on the WWW.
 
XJ-ARNIE said:
You've got to look 3rd party. Look online for tool metal suppliers, its all buried in their websites somewhere. There's a company down the street from my shop that supplies metal to a bunch of big box American made tools. You'd be surprised who's using the same alloys to make their tools. Now obviously, what they do with that metal after they purchase it can make or break (no pun intended) the ultimate end user product, but its nice to know where what company starts with.

Also, there's companies that do third party r and d testing. They may or may not give up the information, but mostly, in the industrial side of their product line, all of these tools have been sold to the government at some point, so its available on the WWW.
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Ah ok fair enough, that explains it a bit then.

I figured it was out there in some form, just a matter of if Joe Blow can get his hands on it/see it since I know many times that stuff is considered IP within a company.

Much like with many companies, it's funny how many get their raw supplies, materials, blanks, etc. from the same supplier...do a little work...badge it their own, then voila...that's "their" product.

Me, I've got a 44" Harbor Freight tool box...and I'll be getting a couple more of the bottoms in the not too distant future. The things are fricken' tanks. I've had the one I have for a few years now, and bought it lightly used. The thing still looks like it rolled off the floor.

Sure, I can't get it in fancy colors, but I'm fine with my dinky red toolbox :laugh:

If I had the room, I'd seriously look into their 72" model. Guys have been raving about them, just wishing they made a matching top for it. For $1200 without coupon...that's hard to beat.
 
freerider15 said:
Ah ok fair enough, that explains it a bit then.

I figured it was out there in some form, just a matter of if Joe Blow can get his hands on it/see it since I know many times that stuff is considered IP within a company.

Much like with many companies, it's funny how many get their raw supplies, materials, blanks, etc. from the same supplier...do a little work...badge it their own, then voila...that's "their" product.

Me, I've got a 44" Harbor Freight tool box...and I'll be getting a couple more of the bottoms in the not too distant future. The things are fricken' tanks. I've had the one I have for a few years now, and bought it lightly used. The thing still looks like it rolled off the floor.

Sure, I can't get it in fancy colors, but I'm fine with my dinky red toolbox :laugh:

If I had the room, I'd seriously look into their 72" model. Guys have been raving about them, just wishing they made a matching top for it. For $1200 without coupon...that's hard to beat.
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the US general really isn't a BAD product. it is exactly what you pay for, and that's good enough for a lot of people. I know tons of techs that work out of a US general everyday. I know a few techs who stuck a snap on logo to it just to get the tool dealers to leave them alone...haha.

For 90% of the people that buy it, the US general box fits the bill. personally, my next tool box is going to be from Xtreme.
 
I thought these were going to repel like magnets, evidently I was wrong. Replaced a KR-274 side box for christmas with the 7 drawer harbor freight box. One of the few things they have that is decent. Snap on Boxes are KR537/KR557 vintage of 1978 according to the receipts.





If you shop amazon you can get deals on "open" sets for sockets. I just bought gear wrench sockets for 27 and 21 dollars for the 1/2 drive and 3/8 drive shallow 6 point chrome sets.


Oh, here's another one that I like. $114 for the set of 4 120 tooth ratchets, these things are nice. The half inch is 17" long which is short breaker bar territory.

http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-81230P-Teardrop-Ratchet-4-Piece/dp/B00BTEXPDK

Review here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZvFOAkaI8Q
 
The Snap On boxes are expensive, more expensive that many people would want to pay. But when you can get (2) 50" drawers that are 24-28" deep its much easier to organize tools. Primary sockets in one, and primary wrenches in the other. I'm not sure what gauge steel the HF boxes are. Snap On boxes are heavy gauge steel and typically weigh at least 500 pounds empty.
 
md21722 said:
The Snap On boxes are expensive, more expensive that many people would want to pay. But when you can get (2) 50" drawers that are 24-28" deep its much easier to organize tools. Primary sockets in one, and primary wrenches in the other. I'm not sure what gauge steel the HF boxes are. Snap On boxes are heavy gauge steel and typically weigh at least 500 pounds empty.
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Again, I have to mention extreme toolboxes.

EX7218RC by extreme, 72" box. ,30" drawers.

$2500

Snap on is too much money.
 
The EX7217RC is the closest to what I would be interested in, with 50" wide and 28" deep drawers. They are about $3500.
 
The US General (Harbor Freight) boxes knock the hell out of everyone else for value. Nobody at the USG price point is even comparable in quality, last I looked. You don't get as sturdy a locking mechanism as with Snap On and the drawers may not be as solid, either. I've got a 44" top / bottom combo, though, and couldn't be happier. I had a rolling service cart that I wrenched 40 hours a week out of and I liked it, too.
As for hand tools... high line Craftsman is the most cost effective set of tools you can buy new. Knipex pliers are worth what they cost on Amazon, the rest... high line craftsman or any of the "truck" brands are great. Impacts / air tools, I like the IR branded stuff and I like the metal case tools.
Snap On, I've got a bunch of it. The long double box wrenches, the Ebay combination wrenches, the ratchets my old man gave me - it's all great, lovely stuff. The notion that having a nicer tool makes you more money, though, is a bad joke.
Just about no tool could honestly be said to make you money, unless it's your air tools. Use those wrong, they'll cost you your ass in broken hardware.
Lots of folks put big money into tools. I've put more in than maybe I should have but played it smart and stayed out of debt, which is saying something for a (former) pro. Honestly, I see no reason a home mechanic / DIY guy ought to stray from Craftsman's nicer stuff or HF's boxes. It's 85% of a Snap On tool at 15% of the price.
And that's my rant on tools.
 
yossarian19 said:
The notion that having a nicer tool makes you more money, though, is a bad joke.
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This never made sense to me either. In the computer industry it would be like saying because you have a $10,000 workstation on your desk then you're 7X better than the guy with a $1,400 laptop. Or the guys that buy the diesel truck and racing trailer because they're going to be a race car driver one day. It's just better to say "because I liked it/wanted it." :D
 
Ill agree that most people who say that, are just making excuses to themselves.... but its very much true.

EXAMPLE: My dewalt impact has been broken for 2 weeks.... that means for the last two weeks i have been using other tools to replace it... tools that dont work nearly as well as it did. Had that tool NOT BROKEN, i would be that much further along on my work. If i had to guess, id say 3-4 hours of wasted productivity... which is nothing to sneeze at!

I do not work flat rate... but those that do, cant afford downtime because of tools. Nicer tools dont break as often.... which saves time, and makes you money. Simple as that.

What about when a harbor freight wrench rounds off an 18mm bolt, and you smash your knuckles into steel? That surely makes you work faster for the next week while your nursing your wrecked hand, right?

For tool boxes, sure... I am gonna be picking up some us general boxes soon myself...

"It depends" is the only accurate answer to this question.
 
XCM,

I see the point you are trying to make, and it is a common and valid point. There is something to mention though, as this issue is not as black and white as you put it.

"It depends" is the start of an accurate answer. This is my answer to my students when this question comes up, and trust me, it is frequent that it does.

A smart technician will use simple economics to solve his/her tool buying dilemma. Economics says that the goal in life is to maximize your total utility within your budget constraint.

without lecturing a microeconomics class, that means that a smart tech finds tools of equal durability and warranty for less money, so he/she can acquire more tools for the same money spent.

It is no secret that snap-on gets to charge more because they are engraved "snap-on" this is called "marketing the brand", and the very fact that there is an entire thread dedicated to it means their marketing department is doing their job and deserves the money they are paid. (another reason they cost so much)

I am all about quality tools, I am also all about LOTS of tools, one for every job as a matter of fact.

My ATD ball joint press ($63) works just as well as the OTC one ($330), and I could go through my tool room, and my boxes and make you a list, but Ill save us all the time.

Another thing to mention, smart people also take care of their tools as I am sure you do, and this brings less broken tools and gives the user a moment to inspect it and look for any signs of wear (replacing/repairing/warranty it before it breaks).

3-4 hours of lost productivity in a week for a tech that makes, lets say, $18 per hour, cost him $72. If he saved $267 on his ball joint press purchase like I did, he is still ahead $195. Go ahead and list off other expenses, maybe his uniforms got dirtier, maybe he was late to dinner, maybe he had to drive to get it warrantied and gas cost money. It still doesn't matter.

My point is, do some homework before you buy tools, you will probably find a better deal than Snappy or Matco or Cornhole. And the adage of "I need it because everything else will break and cost me money" means that you are litteraly tripping over dollars to save pennies.
 
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