Scary S!@#

[yossarian19]

one a driver can compensate for and get exactly the same effect -

Bullshit.
ABS and traction control can modify wheel speed at any given corner about a million times per minute.
Driver can apply brakes to all four or none at all maybe 2x a second at most.
ABS senses wheel slip before driver does.
Modern traction control can keep tires on the road and going straight far better than any person. Possible exception is auto racing, though as controls advance, even that is up in the air.
That being said, my 98 doesn't have it and I haven't died yet. One time I really could have used ABS, though...

 

[xj-grin]

Well, I'll put 24 years of driving on Colorado ice without an accident, and somehow managing to maintain control of my antiquated vehicles against some computer that thinks it can "sense" slippage... I hate ABS. Traction control devices have their place for those that don't want to take responsibility for their driving, as do cars that can park themselves. I won't be driving one of those either.

Mike, I'll drive by ya, I think you can handle it. But I'll sue your ass and win if something happens!

 

[in4aride]

Oh absolutely. Id be hosed. but it is what it is.

 

[xj-grin]

it is always what it is, man. :cheers:

 

[JJacobs]

Sure it is. you're in foco
working on cars for a living you of all people should know that no sway bar is the least of worries with cars on the road.

Yeah, just seeing if the old stir stick still works. Actually most of the stuff that comes in here is in decent shape. Not all of it though.

 

[Fred]

Hell, I learned to drive on Chicago's snow packed streets with bias ply and rear wheel drive. When I moved here, I laughed at all the jeeps off the highway when it snowed, while I cruised by in my Gremmy. Most Coloroadians can't drive well in snow. It doesn't stick around long enough on the front range. Anyone ever hit black ice and find yourself in the next lane? That was in my parents 69 Impala with the 396. It gets your attention.

That said, I like the ABS on the 99 WJ. It only comes on if I'm caught by surprise and lock the wheels. It doesn't do much on ice, but you can still steer. Jim K. has yet to put a D-44 on his 98 XJ, because he likes the ABS, and he has wheeled his 98, just not recently. He also grew up in Chicago.

 

[.40CalPatriot]

Traction control devices have their place for those that don't want to take responsibility for their driving, as do cars that can park themselves. I won't be driving one of those either.

:thumbup:

Anyone ever hit black ice and find yourself in the next lane?

Went from one lane to the other back to the original and then completely sideways down the middle of both. Second scariest time while driving in my life.

 

[JJacobs]

Bullshit.
ABS and traction control can modify wheel speed at any given corner about a million times per minute.
Driver can apply brakes to all four or none at all maybe 2x a second at most.
ABS senses wheel slip before driver does.
Modern traction control can keep tires on the road and going straight far better than any person. Possible exception is auto racing, though as controls advance, even that is up in the air.
That being said, my 98 doesn't have it and I haven't died yet. One time I really could have used ABS, though...

In theory, yes, in reality not so much. There are plenty of abs systems out there that do nothing more than leave you temporarily brakeless when they detect slip.

 

[yossarian19]

In theory, yes, in reality not so much. There are plenty of abs systems out there that do nothing more than leave you temporarily brakeless when they detect slip.

If you are slipping, do you still want to be on the brakes?

I don't want to be preaching like everyone needs ABS, I just think / know it reacts faster & more precisely than people can on their own. It isn't a replacement for common sense or good driving - but I think a good driver with ABS has better control over his / her vehicle than one without it. /Rant_off.

Glad everyone was OK.

 

[time2getdirty]

If you are slipping, do you still want to be on the brakes?

I don't want to be preaching like everyone needs ABS, I just think / know it reacts faster & more precisely than people can on their own. It isn't a replacement for common sense or good driving - but I think a good driver with ABS has better control over his / HER vehicle than one without it. /Rant_off.

Glad everyone was OK.

Found the problem in your argument!

 

[jimgrms]

Dammit Kiefer look at what you started .LOL

 

[Vanimal]

i think abs is on a case by case basis, i grew up in CT so i was used to snow, black ice, slush, etc.
I had a 93 buick regal and the ABS saved my butt more than once. It was amazing how much better it stopped vs without it (i drove around for a year or so with it disabled).
Sway bars..... i have coilovers on all 4 corners and 16" travel ones in the rear. it gets some major body roll around corners. I am used to it, but that's not to say it will be safe when it comes to that one time i need to avoid a kid or a car. A rear sway bar is high on the list. For now, i just drive a few clicks down from where i usually would and deal with it.

 

[Kiefer316]

Jim I haven't started anything... Intact, this is the first time I've posted in this thread since its been resurrected. It's fun to watch though.

 

[jimgrms]

Ya but the thread is all about you

 

[Digger87xj]

I experienced the same sway-bar-less 3-wheeled evasive maneuver this past weekend.

:scared:


There will be a sway bar system going back on my XJ sooner than later.

 

[RideFree416]

what if no sway bar is what kept you from rolling

 

[JJacobs]

what if no sway bar is what kept you from rolling

Unlikely if not impossible.

 

[Digger87xj]

what if no sway bar is what kept you from rolling

Uh, no chance.

The lack of a sway bar is exactly why the left rear tire lifted while in a deep left swerve. The right front compressed as there was nothing to keep it in check.

I was lucky and had enough room to re-correct to the right to prevent a roll.

This was at less than 30mph too.... can't imagine the carnage that could have ensued at highway speeds.

 

[RideFree416]

i think kiefer was probably doing between 60 and 70 when it happened to him. im wondering if it was the new pavement that saved him. new black to on warm day i imagine it was a little oily and allowed him to slide.. in any case glad your ok.

 

[1-tonxj]

Probably be getting a phone call from the LAW TIGERS about this fiasco .