New info?- Iraq

[Z22_Z33]

Once you know some of the history of scouting you may speak up. Other then that keep your mouth closed. Boy Scouting was incorporated here in 1910. In 1907 Baden-Powell held the first campout for Scouts. The organization hasn’t been around anywhere as long as you said. Were you around when it was started? I think not, so why state I know nothing of the program when you yourself where not around when it started.
It is a boy run organization. As I stated before there are only things the parents can do the boys can’t do. The adults have ultimate control? No I am afraid not. Adults would like to think they have ultimate control, so they force the boys to believe this. The boys run the troop not the adults. The troop leaders (boys not adults) decide where we should go camping and organize other such events during the PLC, but ideas are also thrown around at troop meetings so everyone has a say. Some would like to think final say may be left with the adults, but that is what the adults would like to think. Instead of telling us no you can’t do that it, it is suppose to be how can you accomplish this? I am curious to how you got this wild idea in your head. Could it be because the parents believe they should be the ones running things and took charge? The best example I can use here is the knot tying. The adults would like to think they know best and that you are wrong. I am sorry if you had to be stuck with such horrible people. If you would have been in my troop instead it would have been, “how’d you do that, show it to me, that’s great.” You would have easily got that merit badge. You want to complain to someone complain to the people who ran the scouts how it isn’t suppose to be, instead of complaining about the whole organization. Maybe I should restate what I’m saying; the troop is run by the boys not the adults.

 

[Glenn B]

I see you traded in that shovel for a back-hoe eh?
shame.
Glenn

Once you know some of the history of scouting you may speak up. Other then that keep your mouth closed. Boy Scouting was incorporated here in 1910. In 1907 Baden-Powell held the first campout for Scouts. The organization hasn’t been around anywhere as long as you said. Were you around when it was started? I think not, so why state I know nothing of the program when you yourself where not around when it started.
It is a boy run organization. As I stated before there are only things the parents can do the boys can’t do. The adults have ultimate control? No I am afraid not. Adults would like to think they have ultimate control, so they force the boys to believe this. The boys run the troop not the adults. The troop leaders (boys not adults) decide where we should go camping and organize other such events during the PLC, but ideas are also thrown around at troop meetings so everyone has a say. Some would like to think final say may be left with the adults, but that is what the adults would like to think. Instead of telling us no you can’t do that it, it is suppose to be how can you accomplish this? I am curious to how you got this wild idea in your head. Could it be because the parents believe they should be the ones running things and took charge? The best example I can use here is the knot tying. The adults would like to think they know best and that you are wrong. I am sorry if you had to be stuck with such horrible people. If you would have been in my troop instead it would have been, “how’d you do that, show it to me, that’s great.” You would have easily got that merit badge. You want to complain to someone complain to the people who ran the scouts how it isn’t suppose to be, instead of complaining about the whole organization. Maybe I should restate what I’m saying; the troop is run by the boys not the adults.

 

[XJJPR]

Once you know some of the history of scouting you may speak up. Other then that keep your mouth closed. Boy Scouting was incorporated here in 1910. In 1907 Baden-Powell held the first campout for Scouts. The organization hasn’t been around anywhere as long as you said. Were you around when it was started? I think not, so why state I know nothing of the program when you yourself where not around when it started.
It is a boy run organization. As I stated before there are only things the parents can do the boys can’t do. The adults have ultimate control? No I am afraid not. Adults would like to think they have ultimate control, so they force the boys to believe this. The boys run the troop not the adults. The troop leaders (boys not adults) decide where we should go camping and organize other such events during the PLC, but ideas are also thrown around at troop meetings so everyone has a say. Some would like to think final say may be left with the adults, but that is what the adults would like to think. Instead of telling us no you can’t do that it, it is suppose to be how can you accomplish this? I am curious to how you got this wild idea in your head. Could it be because the parents believe they should be the ones running things and took charge? The best example I can use here is the knot tying. The adults would like to think they know best and that you are wrong. I am sorry if you had to be stuck with such horrible people. If you would have been in my troop instead it would have been, “how’d you do that, show it to me, that’s great.” You would have easily got that merit badge. You want to complain to someone complain to the people who ran the scouts how it isn’t suppose to be, instead of complaining about the whole organization. Maybe I should restate what I’m saying; the troop is run by the boys not the adults.

Lots of words for:

"I made an incorrect statement so let me clarify, BSA is ran by adults but the little troop in Wa. I was in, the adults let us little boys make some of our own decisions so we felt like we were real men!"



Dude, did they teach you "quite while you're head is still above dirt"?

Guess not.


hinkley

 

[Z22_Z33]

How am I digging a hole?
Since you people think I know nothing. Then what role do the adults have in Boy Scouts, and what role do the boys have?

 

[XJJPR]

How am I digging a hole?
Since you people think I know nothing. Then what role do the adults have in Boy Scouts, and what role do the boys have?

Please stop making yourself look so foolish.

Direct from the scouting website:

Mission Statement
The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

If adults aren't running the place then who are the "young people".

Scouting has always been about adults showing boys what is right and what is wrong growing up in this world.

You'll never sell any reasonable thinking person that all scouting is ran by kids, it just not going to happen!

How did you become a Eagle Scout? Some kid told you were one?



hinkley


BTW are you really xjguy?

 

[Glenn B]

I spent a bit of time looking through the BSA site earlier. Specificaly the rules and guidelines areas.

It was very clear the adults are their to guide, teach, and mentor...... as well as make most decisions. Sure they may let the kiddies handle some tasks, but the certainly do not run it.

Looking at the Mission Statement, Goals etc..... it is very clear some people completely missed many lessons, or have reverted back to the traits of pre-Cub Scouts.

But hey, they can start a fire.

Don't get me wrong. The Scouts are a great Org for homophobes, and do great things for some children.

Glenn

BTW Mark, that last thought crossed my mind as well. Sadly, it is not him.

Please stop making yourself look so foolish.

Direct from the scouting website:

Mission Statement
The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

If adults aren't running the place then who are the "young people".

Scouting has always been about adults showing boys what is right and what is wrong growing up in this world.

You'll never sell any reasonable thinking person that all scouting is ran by kids, it just not going to happen!

How did you become a Eagle Scout? Some kid told you were one?



hinkley


BTW are you really xjguy?

 

[Sarge]

Let's see:

Boy Scout Council -- All adults
Scoutmasters -- Adults
Camp counselors -- For the most part adults, teenager councelors are heavily supervised.

Yes, the Scouts themselves do much of the day to day and meeting items. With an adult there to steer them back if they screw up. Done this way in order to prepare you better for life as an adult. Boy-run would mean no steering. Use the Jamboree as an example...the adults may stay back but they definitely watch and steer and intercede as needed.

Eagle wasn't far off either. Scouts have been around 97 years using the campout as a start date or 94 years using the incorp date.

Whatever happened to (specifically #5):

Scout Law
TRUSTWORTHY
A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him.
LOYAL
A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation.
HELPFUL
A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward.
FRIENDLY
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own.
COURTEOUS
A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows good manners make it easier for people to get along together.
KIND
A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason.
OBEDIENT
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them.
CHEERFUL
A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.
THRIFTY
A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.
BRAVE
A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him.
CLEAN
A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.
REVERENT
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

You aren't only scout here, probably not even the only Eagle.

Sarge

 

[Gridikal]

Sooooooooooo hows that new info in Iraq coming along? No disrespect intended here but couldn't you guys like PM each other or sumthing? I have 1 page of Iraq info and 3 pages of BSA info.- regaurdless, this has been interesting to read

Edit- thought I might as well throw my .02 in on the BSA though. I went through cub scouts as most kids my age did, I had 4 friends go on through boy scouts to become Eagle scouts- while it was a good many years of work, I didnt see anything spectacular about it, and to top it off three of them are the biggest hippie pot-smokers I know of, and the other tried to kill himself a few years back.

 

[Z22_Z33]

Please stop making yourself look so foolish.

Direct from the scouting website:

Mission Statement
The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

If adults aren't running the place then who are the "young people".

Scouting has always been about adults showing boys what is right and what is wrong growing up in this world.

You'll never sell any reasonable thinking person that all scouting is ran by kids, it just not going to happen!

How did you become a Eagle Scout? Some kid told you were one?



hinkley


BTW are you really xjguy?

No I am not someone else. Now where did I say "all scouting is run by kids." Please reread what I have written. Just in case you are to lazy to look back and think I did say that. Here is what I said, "there are certain things the adults can do that the boys cant.”

This taken straight from the official website. So is what you put up.
“Purpose of the BSA
The Boy Scouts of America was incorporated to provide a program for community organizations that offers effective character, citizenship, and personal fitness training for youth.
Specifically, the BSA endeavors to develop American citizens who are physically, mentally, and emotionally fit; have a high degree of self-reliance as evidenced in such qualities as initiative, courage, and resourcefulness; have personal values based on religious concepts; have the desire and skills to help others; understand the principles of the American social, economic, and governmental systems; are knowledgeable about and take pride in their American heritage and understand our nation's role in the world; have a keen respect for the basic rights of all people; and are prepared to participate in and give leadership to American society.”

So now where in there or what you put in this post, does it say that adults run the show? Have a high degree of self-reliance. Now how does one become self reliant if someone else is running everything?
Here is something else pulled from that same site you pulled your facts off of.
“First, the Scout learns. Much of his learning comes from other boys in his patrol or troop and by active participation in troop program. His patrol activities are directed toward the skills he needs. Every troop hike, camping trip, or other activity offers potential learning experiences. A Scout learns to pitch a tent by pitching one, to use a compass by finding directions, and to cook a meal by having to prepare and eat it.”

Much of his learning comes from other boys in his patrol or troop? Wait according to all you people it comes from the adults.
Ok here is the link to Eagle Scout.
http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-516.html

 

[Glenn B]

Last I saw, it was very possible the Russians removed it. Either way, the press stories are so conflicting... I think it was just an attempt to discredit the administration.

 

[Gridikal]

Last I saw, it was very possible the Russians removed it. Either way, the press stories are so conflicting... I think it was just an attempt to discredit the administration.

yet another attept from the NY times- didnt they first say it? although it happened like last april or so?

 

[Glenn B]

That post fails to mention how the kids are in charge. Can you point it out? It discusses:
"Offers.....Training". Oh, I forgot, cub scouts are born with the vast knowledge, that as they grow to be a teen in puberty, they are capable of teaching everything. Or is it the Adults that train these kids, and then let them work together? Hmmm

"BSA endeavors to develop". Hmm, looks like adults with some sort of knowledge must be involved in leading this endeavor. Kiddies to not endeavor this with no direction or skills developement.

"understand the principles of the American social, economic, and governmental systems". And they do all of this on their own? You already said your History books in school only had a paragraph or so on D-Day. Interesting how kids suddenly have the vast knowledge to educate themselves on such important matters. Wait, now I know where the Young Democrats come from.

"are knowledgeable about and take pride in their American heritage and understand our nation's role in the world" Give me examples. If adults are not leading you, you are relying on your deficient school books? Or?

"and are prepared to participate in and give leadership to American society.” By who? Hopefully not these same history text books again. It seems some missed out on how to "participate in", but took that to mean "whine about..".

You are however, very proficient in the use of a shovel to dig yourself quite a nice hole, as well as the lack of knowing which battles to choose. Of course, you may need "basic Training" for that, as they only create Killers.

No I am not someone else. Now where did I say "all scouting is run by kids." Please reread what I have written. Just in case you are to lazy to look back and think I did say that. Here is what I said, "there are certain things the adults can do that the boys cant.”

This taken straight from the official website. So is what you put up.
“Purpose of the BSA
The Boy Scouts of America was incorporated to provide a program for community organizations that offers effective character, citizenship, and personal fitness training for youth.
Specifically, the BSA endeavors to develop American citizens who are physically, mentally, and emotionally fit; have a high degree of self-reliance as evidenced in such qualities as initiative, courage, and resourcefulness; have personal values based on religious concepts; have the desire and skills to help others; understand the principles of the American social, economic, and governmental systems; are knowledgeable about and take pride in their American heritage and understand our nation's role in the world; have a keen respect for the basic rights of all people; and are prepared to participate in and give leadership to American society.”

So now where in there or what you put in this post, does it say that adults run the show? Have a high degree of self-reliance. Now how does one become self reliant if someone else is running everything?
Here is something else pulled from that same site you pulled your facts off of.
“First, the Scout learns. Much of his learning comes from other boys in his patrol or troop and by active participation in troop program. His patrol activities are directed toward the skills he needs. Every troop hike, camping trip, or other activity offers potential learning experiences. A Scout learns to pitch a tent by pitching one, to use a compass by finding directions, and to cook a meal by having to prepare and eat it.”

Much of his learning comes from other boys in his patrol or troop? Wait according to all you people it comes from the adults.
Ok here is the link to Eagle Scout.
http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-516.html

 

[Glenn B]

yet another attept from the NY times- didnt they first say it? although it happened like last april or so?

As far as I can tell, it happened a while ago. Circumstances are up in the air. Too many conflicting reports and accounts at this point yet, IMHO.

 

[Eagle]

Then there was the story I caught a fleeting reference to that said one of our units had removed the bulk of it. Never got to read the whole story, and I haven't seen any follow-up.

I agree. The whole thing was a political stunt.

Had an interesting discussion today. A friend who now lives in Boston and his wife were down to visit his 94-year old mother, and my wife and I stopped in to see them. My friend's wife is Turkish. She has lived in this country for several years, but she is only now beginning to apply for citizenship, so she can't vote.

But she said if she could vote, she'd vote for Kerry. Why? Because she doesn't like Bush. And that's the summation of this entire election, at least in my experience. I have yet to meet or talk with anyone who is going to vote FOR either of the candidates. Universally, people are voting AGAINST the candidate they consider the bigger danger, the bigger liar, the bigger fraud, or the lower scum-bucket. I asked my Turkish friend why she might consider voting for a proven liar, and her reply was both interesting and frightening.

She said "That's just how the game is played. I know Kerry isn't telling us what's in his heart, but I believe he has core values and he just has to say what's necessary to get elected, so he can put his core values into action."

?????

Yikes! Couldn't come right out and say so, but I'm sure glad this lady can't vote in our election. I don't much care if she wants to become a Republicrat or a Democan, but when you start thinking that it's acceptable for politicians to lie in order to get elected, you are acknowledging that we citizen-type people aren't bright enough to decide anything for ourselves and therefore it must be okay for the politicians to lie to us in order to get elected. God forbid we should actually know where a candidate stands on the issues, and vote for the guy whose position(s) most closely approximate our own.

I left her thinking, but I don't think I convinced her. Problem iss that she lives in Boston, where she's immersed in Kerry/Kennedy type liberals, so this all seems normal and natural to her.

 

[Z22_Z33]

Maybe I should restate what I’m saying; the troop is run by the boys not the adults.

Maybe I should have said clarify rather then restate.
This is what I have been saying. Granted the adults do a lot. That though is not what I was arguing about. You all think that’s what I was trying to argue over. This is the statement I was saying, and I am for. Or do you people believe I am so wrong you must continue your campaign against me?
Granted I may not be the smartest or the best at what I do, but what right does that give you to put me down? Say how wrong I must be? Not once have I made fun of any of you, or tried to bring you down. Yes I got angry and used language I shouldn’t have against Redneck. I also have argued with you but that is all.
What is it about me that is so horrible that I deserve such treatment from all of you? I made Eagle Scout which I am proud of. Not just anyone can or becomes an Eagle Scout, but yet with just that little fact you instantly believe that I view myself better then everyone else in the world? Where have I once said that me being an Eagle Scout makes myself better then everyone? If you were not in my same position do that same? Stand up for yourself? What if someone poked fun at you for being in the military or even being a vet or believing in something?
Neither I nor anyone else, are pleased when people question what we have done in the past (I am referring to what we are glad to have done and do not view as wrong). Someone actually said, I must not be an Eagle Scout, a kid must have told me. Would you like it if I were to say, you must not have served it was just a movie? Someone else actually compared basic training as being the same as it takes to become an Eagle Scout. Some believe that one day you have a crazy idea to be an Eagle Scout and then poof your one. Others believe that because I simply state something, I must be proven how wrong I really am. Then when I try to defend what I said, I am politely told to shut up. Even when I try to clarify what I said, you do not listen and somehow think I am just repeating myself and I must suffer from ADD. Others believe that simply because they think they know more that I am naïve, without really reading what I have written. Why don’t you try and look for the meanings of what I am typing here, don’t just take it at face value.
All I have really been doing is trying to state my opinion but to no avail it has somehow been used against me. I hope that what I am saying is not all in vain. I am afraid though that it is. Somehow what I have just said, I am sure you people will find a way to use against me.

 

[Eagle]

No I am not someone else. Now where did I say "all scouting is run by kids." Please reread what I have written. Just in case you are to lazy to look back and think I did say that. Here is what I said, "there are certain things the adults can do that the boys cant.”

I'll not only re-read what you wrote, I'll post it right here for all to see:

For those that don’t know, the Boy Scouts is a boy run organization, it is not run by the adults, but some adults though do not see this and us boys are to young to know the difference.

Perhaps YOU should reread what you have written, since you don't seem to remember it very well. That sounds to me like a rather definitive statement. "It is not run by the adults." You have made A BIG DEAL out of the fact that (in your eyes) the Boy Scouts is run completely by the boys. You have maintained this position despite statements from adults who have been scoutmasters and who know better, and in the face of Glenn's quote from the BSA web site itself.

And now that you've painted yourself well and fully into the corner, NOW you want to say that you didn't say what you said. That stuff might work in the Boy Scouts, but it won't work here. Most of us have been around the block a time or three, and we've seen people before who like to try to scam us. A word of advice: Don't try that stuff here. You will get called on it, as you deserve to.

 

[XJJPR]

I'll not only re-read what you wrote, I'll post it right here for all to see:



Perhaps YOU should reread what you have written, since you don't seem to remember it very well. That sounds to me like a rather definitive statement. "It is not run by the adults." You have made A BIG DEAL out of the fact that (in your eyes) the Boy Scouts is run completely by the boys. You have maintained this position despite statements from adults who have been scoutmasters and who know better, and in the face of Glenn's quote from the BSA web site itself.

And now that you've painted yourself well and fully into the corner, NOW you want to say that you didn't say what you said. That stuff might work in the Boy Scouts, but it won't work here. Most of us have been around the block a time or three, and we've seen people before who like to try to scam us. A word of advice: Don't try that stuff here. You will get called on it, as you deserve to.

Eagle has it right!

See I didn't have to type much but agree with the above!

hinkley

 

[Z22_Z33]

Maybe I should have said clarify rather then restate.
.

Please if you are going to reread what I wrote please read all of it.
I am young so sometimes I automatically believe you all know what I am talking about. It was clear then and now that is not the case. I needed to clarify what I meant. My thinking was this. The boys run the troop if it wasn’t for the troop there wouldn’t be a Boy Scout organization. So yes the adults run the organization to a certain extent, but the troop is left in the hands of the boys, which makes up the organization. Now that is how I came to the conclusion, the boys run the show.
Now none of this is set in stone. As many people have shown. There are parts only the adults can run, on the other hand there are areas the boys must run not the adults.

 

[Gridikal]

This is true- now that you've clarified, I can understand where you'r going. As far as my four friends go, the troop leaders set the objectives and the "troop" makes there own choices on how to aquire the goals set by the troop leader. They chose the trips, meetings, camping trips, etc etc. So, I guess I could agree with that- but thats just based off of info I picked up from friends, as I said I was never in Boy scouts- kinda glad too.

 

[Z22_Z33]

This is true- now that you've clarified, I can understand where you'r going. As far as my four friends go, the troop leaders set the objectives and the "troop" makes there own choices on how to aquire the goals set by the troop leader. They chose the trips, meetings, camping trips, etc etc. So, I guess I could agree with that- but thats just based off of info I picked up from friends, as I said I was never in Boy scouts- kinda glad too.

Thank you. Just to let people know the troop leaders also consist of the boys themselves, the ones that were elected by their peers. They have a say in the objectives/goals as well. The adults might suggest something; the approval though usually lies in the hands of the boy leaders. Usually more then often what the adults suggests is a good thing, and is implemented. This goes the same with the carryout of the plans. Instead of offering a suggestion it was more in the form of advice. How are you going to raise the funds, is this really a good time, people may be on vacation.
This of course could lead to the conclusion the adults run the troop.