My stroker thread..pics

[seanyb505]

not sure if you've purchased an oil pump yet or not but what is your intent for this engine?

will it see a lot of high rpm?

and if you do decide to go with a high volume, i would try and just buy a stiffer spring for yours or a replacement stocker to up the pressure. that would dodge any potential oil pan modifications VIA BFH!

Yes the engine will see high rpms. Not on a daily basis, but every now and then i like to wind through the gears. Explain this stiffer spring... Ive never read of anyone making modifications to the oil pan before a couple days ago.

 

[JJacobs]

It's unnecessary- in fact if you look at most head gasket instruction sheets they mention install dry with no sealers added. All that stuff's built into the gasket already. Unless you want to stack gaskets together or something.

I once had a Ford I-6 that an oldtimer had copper coated the head gasket on. I picked up the left front wheel with a high-lift under some bolts screwed into the head and it still wouldn't come off.

 

[wingnutooa]

i always install head gaskets dry. but if you read the repair manual it mentions putting a sealant on ONE side of the head gasket.


yes i thought it was wierd and i'm assuming that's why felpro put that red bead of silicone type stuff on there

 

[seanyb505]

So I guess Ill be going with all Felpro gaskets, anyone know the cheapest place to get a full set?

Also, Im looking at getting the pistons I wanted from a local guy for 190. They have already been dished to 28cc.
-I dont know if this is a good deal as they are 120 from the factory, but dishing them out would cost more, so Im guessing this is a good deal????
With this my CR would go way below my max.
-Does anyone know if taking that much out has made the pistons weaker? They are the 2229 silvos.
With 28ccs I can deck the block to get a much better quench, i was thinking .03 off the block, putting my deck clearance at .0195, down from .0215.
-Would I be running the risk of this pistons slapping the valves? Quench would be around .06, much better than stock.
-Also, would I have to change any of the valvetrain stuff by lowering the quench height?

thanks!

 

[Only In A Jeep XJ]

Crank from O' reilly's is 185 and a master rebuild off ebay will run around 350 and that will have all your gaskets, bearings, pistons, oil pump and cam and lifters. Buying them seperate is WAY more money you can use to buy new push rods and most of your sencers and other odd ball parts . Napa is good but the same parts are half price every where else.

 

[seanyb505]

There are no oreileys within 300 miles of me in South Florida, but their website says free shipping. SO thats good. I dont disagree a rebuild kit would be cheaper, Im concerned with a couple things
- there are different kits for different years, but arent all 4.0s the same? I dont know why they would charge an extra 150 for nothing more. .
-I was planning on reusing the stock cam and lifters, so no money was being spent there
-The pistons are going to have to be milled, the ones Im looking at already are.

So if i go with the older rebuild kit, with the machining to the pistons it would run about 500ish, and I get a new cam.
If I get the correct year I would be spending about 650, which is more than buying everything else, but I get a new cam, which I wasnt planning on getting anyway.

I think the only way the kit could work for me would be to get the older one. Anyone know if itll work with a 97 block?

 

[MudDawg]

Adding a small smear of adhesive silicone around the water holes is not a bad idea. just a little extra insurance, and to keep it in place while puting the head on.

~Alex

Not a good idea...the silicone under the extreme pressure of the head bolts can cause the silicone to act as a lubricant and cause the gasket to squish out of shape in that area and fail.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

i didnt buy a gasket kit cause i only needed a few. head, intake/exhaust, valvecover, and oil pan. I bought a new thermo and gasket, and the waterpump comes with one. I dont think I spent more than about 200ish if that, and I bought the good blue rubber felpro gaskets. Also the thermo gasket for a later model 4.0 is nicer and does not need silicone for about a dollar more.

 

[wingnutooa]

i would take you quench to zero.

or since you've got dished out pistons i would have the block milled to whatever gets you your desidred CR.

with a 28cc piston you can get to 9.25:1 with the felpro gasket.

not bad. a little lower than your target.

plain the head .015

deck the block .050

.000 deck clearance wich gives you a quench of .051 (head gasket thickness)

 

[seanyb505]

thanks, 9.5 was my max, anything from stock to that is good. Would I see any power gains from a higher CR (say 8.8 compared to 9.2 or 9.3)?

 

[wingnutooa]

definetely.

your most power gain would be after market cam accompanied by increased CR.

with a cam alone you will sacrifice your bottom end but gain top end and with only compression increased you SHOULD experience more/stronger bottom end.


just remember that compression doesnt like high rpm's

low CR = Turbo/supercharged/nitrous applications

High CR = naturally aspirated engines that will get excellent bottom end but not wind up quite as high as a low CR

 

[seanyb505]

I wont be using an aftermarket cam for now, just to keep costs down. I will probly upgrade at some point down the road, after I have moved and graduated and have a better job.

It looks like Ill be shooting for a desired 9.16:1 CR. This will be achieved by:
-decking block .045
-.052 Felpro head gasket
-head decked .015
-28cc Silvolite pistons (if deal goes through)
According to the stroker calc my quench should be .0565, better than stock. Correct me if Im wrong but this looks like it will be a fairly strong and reliable engine.

One more question - Ive read people have said if the engine is built right a high volume oil pump wont be nessecary. What is meant by building it correctly? What should be done to achieve this?

 

[wingnutooa]

i dont really know!!!. it may have something to do with the machine work.

 

[gradon]

That looks good to me. Have you found anyone that has decked the block .040" or more? Give an update on machining costs when you're done.

 

[seanyb505]

idk about the decking. I supposed Ill have to make some measurements to make sure .045 is the right amount to take off. Ill need the deck height, rod and piston length to make sure I get the deck clearance where i would like it. I did some machine shop shopping the other day. Carquest quoted me 383 for the block and head, which sounded pheonominal to me until I thought about the quality of the machine work. They would outsource the rotating assembly balancing. The other place I went to had actually built a stroker a couple months ago and will be far more expensive, but for reliability and accurate work I think that might be the place to go. They will be able to do the balancing in house as well, so Im expecting 600-800. If they do it for 800 it will put me at just over 2000 for a running stroker. Theyre supposed to give me a call today or tomorrow to give a price for everything, and I willask what parts they will supply themselves or if they want me to buy everything on my own.

 

[wingnutooa]

my machining costs are as follows

i'll post it here since my stroker thread seems to be invisible.

bore = 120
deck = 80
plain = 65
hottank = 110 (everything thats metal pertaining to the engine)
magnaflux = 50
rods and pistons assy = 64
crank turn and polish = 100
freeze plugs/cam bearings = 60
balance = 200


for a total of 849$

and if i want the rods shot peened i have to take them somewehre else and itll be 90-120.

debating on whether or not to buy a new crank or have a core turned.

after it's turned i'll be in the crank 150$

here's some of the pricing i've come up with otherwise.

not sure if i want to do a kit yet because of a bunch of parts i dont need.


258 crank and rods (CL) 100$
or
258 crank 100$
258 rods 60$
HO Intake 75$
HO head 125$
fel-pro gasket set (complete) P/N and price for this??
cloyes tru roller - 140$
Comp Cams #68-239-4 cam&lifter kit 208$
Complete bearing set ----P/N and price for this??
wide band o2 sensor 80$
harmonic balance (used) 35$
yella terra rocker arms 470$ - ebay
oil pump ----P/N and price for this??
throttle body 120$ - ebay. 62MM
Pistons ~not sure yet~
Rings ~not sure yet~
Fuel pressure regulator. probably ebay, havent priced it yet.




Grand Total $$2322.00+parts not yet priced.

maybe i'll start pricing kits and see how much extra junk i'll end up with and how many extra parts i'll need to buy.



hope the machine work numbers help you out a little.

not sure if its good, bad, or average but when it's someone you trust doing the work its really not important.

 

[seanyb505]

I would say that the TB can be done at the machine shop while everything else is there for less than 120.
Advance auto has oil pumps for around 70. From the math ive done and for what I want Ill be going with silvolite 2229 pistons.
I wont be going with roller rockers quite yet; theyre not nessecary for the engine to run.

 

[wingnutooa]

true.

its more a want than a need for me. and if i dont do it while i'm building it. i'll never do it.

 

[seanyb505]

Ok I just got back from the high quality machine shop and then want high quantity dollars. Heres a break down:

Head work ($300 for Head rebuild)
-head hot tanked
-milled to flatness (it looks like Ill be taking .015 off the head for CR reasons)
-3 angle valve job
-regrind valves seats
-new valve seals
-everything reassembled

Block work
-clean block and ports: $120
-mill to flatness (.040 off for CR reasons or whatever the max is): $120
-bore and hone cylinders .030 over: 180
-magnafluxing included
-instal cam bearings: $40

Rotating Assembly
-recondition rods: $100
-press pistons onto rods: $45
-grind crank (if needed): $165
-balance rotating assembly: $165

For those of you who are lazy or are unfamiliar with a calculator, thats $1235:shocked:! He said they rebuild a 4.0 at least once a month for the forestry service and also had some pieces of advice.
- High volume oil pump wont be necessary as I wont be spending a lot of time idling off-road. Even though theres increased displacement, since the rpms will be up most of the time it should provide sufficient pressure.
-Cant reuse the stock cam. A stock piece would only be $100 or so for cam and lifters. The only problem with that is I dont know where I should pay 200 more and get a performance cam. I always dismissed the crane cam, and if I do get a new cam, its hello new pushrods and springs. :doh: But if I do stick with stock, I will be able to go with the ebay 4.0 rebuild kit. Decisions decisions....

 

[seanyb505]

OK here what I think Im going to go with. A mopar cam (comes with lifters)new springs and pushrods from jeep connection totals 285. I can sell the cam that comes with the rebuild kit for cheap as well as the pistons. That might help to offset the new cam and sky high prices for machine work.