Important

[FlexdXJ]

Correct.

The burden of the person who chooses to either Open Carry or Concealed Carry is that you must now follow ALL the rules of self defense. Not some of the rules, but ALL the rules. If you skip a step or fire at an assailant that has disengaged, it very well could mean that you, not your assailant will be charged with a crime.

The other important item is that you can not pull your weapon to defend property, only lives. And you must have reason to believe that if you do not act, that you or someone close to you could come to harm because you didn't pull your weapon.

These can be tough to prove after the fact and an assailant can come after you in Civil Court if they can prove that in the altercation you stopped defending yourself and became the aggressor. There is only on proactive solution to this dilemma.

Castle doctrine says otherwise about the defending of property(At least in Indiana) but otherwise you're spot on. Obviously if I catch someone trying to break into my vehicle I'm gonna do something but pulling a gun is the last thing to do in that situation but that's not the property I'm talking about.

 

[nick86]

Castle doctrine says otherwise about the defending of property(At least in Indiana) but otherwise you're spot on. Obviously if I catch someone trying to break into my vehicle I'm gonna do something but pulling a gun is the last thing to do in that situation but that's not the property I'm talking about.

Just another reason why I wish I would have never moved from Texas.

 

[XJosh95]

Castle doctrine says otherwise.

Wrong.

Typical conditions that apply to some Castle Doctrine laws include:

• An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business or vehicle.
• The intruder must be acting illegally—for example, the Castle Doctrine does not give the right to use force against officers of the law acting in the course of their legal duties.
• The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home. Some states apply the Castle Doctrine if the occupant(s) of the home reasonably believe the intruder intends to commit a lesser felony such as arson or burglary.
• The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion, or provoked or instigated an intruder to threaten or use deadly force.

In all cases, the occupant(s) of the home must be there legally, must not be fugitives from the law or aiding or abetting another person in being a fugitive from the law, and must not use force upon an officer of the law performing a legal duty.


Edit: The actual Castle Doctrine is very bureaucratically written leaving it hard to decipher at some points. But it is clear that, even in Indiana, the person must fear serious bodily injury of themselves or a third person in the home, on the property or in their vehicle. ...and some weird stuff about being in a plane that I don't care to investigate further.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Wrong.

Typical conditions that apply to some Castle Doctrine laws include:

• An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business or vehicle.
• The intruder must be acting illegally—for example, the Castle Doctrine does not give the right to use force against officers of the law acting in the course of their legal duties.
• The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home. Some states apply the Castle Doctrine if the occupant(s) of the home reasonably believe the intruder intends to commit a lesser felony such as arson or burglary.
• The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion, or provoked or instigated an intruder to threaten or use deadly force.

In all cases, the occupant(s) of the home must be there legally, must not be fugitives from the law or aiding or abetting another person in being a fugitive from the law, and must not use force upon an officer of the law performing a legal duty.


Edit: The actual Castle Doctrine is very bureaucratically written leaving it hard to decipher at some points. But it is clear that, even in Indiana, the person must fear serious bodily injury of themselves or a third person in the home, on the property or in their vehicle. ...and some weird stuff about being in a plane that I don't care to investigate further.

Yeah, I forgot the part about you fearing for your life or serious bodily harm part.....:doh: If one were to say...come on the property waving a gun or whatever making threats you can defend your property is how I was trying to word it. I'm good at making verbal diarrhea sometimes!


Come on inside and we'll talk about it......

 

[XJosh95]

It's almost a given though. I mean, the chances are very good that a person legally defending themselves is of sound enough mind that they wouldn't attempt to use deadly force unless they actually felt threatened.

But the rule isn't there for the person who thinks the same way. It's there for the people who don't.

 

[WB9YZU]

Correct.

Unfortunately what makes these slings slippery is the measure of what is right and wrong is based on "What a Reasonable Person would believe".

So what may keep you out of jail for murder, may still cost you millions in court in a wrongful death or wounding case.

Flex, what I meant by "Property" is not a place of habitation, but something like your Jeep, or your wallet. So depending on how these items are lifted from you, you may not have the right to pull a weapon on the Thief. If it is non-life threatening, you have no legal ground to mortal defense.

 

[FlexdXJ]

It's funny how our justice system works. Say Joe Schmoe is a hard working man who obeys the law for the most part has an intruder break into his home with legal firearms and he shoots the intruder who is obviously a very desperate person or idiot breaking the law. Joe shoots the BG and doesn't kill him and Joe gets slapped with a million dollar lawsuit. That is just plain wrong and the judge ruling on that has a nice spot in hell right next to the criminal.

 

[WB9YZU]

It's funny how our justice system works. Say Joe Schmoe is a hard working man who obeys the law for the most part has an intruder break into his home with legal firearms and he shoots the intruder who is obviously a very desperate person or idiot breaking the law. Joe shoots the BG and doesn't kill him and Joe gets slapped with a million dollar lawsuit. That is just plain wrong and the judge ruling on that has a nice spot in hell right next to the criminal.

Not funny, but true.

See later part of post 39160 for the solution. That is what I was told by one Police Officer who was teaching defense. You must read between the lines

 

[4wdParakeet]

It's funny how our justice system works. Say Joe Schmoe is a hard working man who obeys the law for the most part has an intruder break into his home with legal firearms and he shoots the intruder who is obviously a very desperate person or idiot breaking the law. Joe shoots the BG and doesn't kill him and Joe gets slapped with a million dollar lawsuit. That is just plain wrong and the judge ruling on that has a nice spot in hell right next to the criminal.

Agreed.


Parakeet

 

[XJosh95]

There is only one proactive solution to this dilemma.

This. Which is why it is important to know your stuff and act accordingly. Acting accordingly means being accurate with your weapon, too.

Not funny, but true.

See later part of post 39160 for the solution. That is what I was told by one Police Officer who was teaching defense. You must read between the lines

I caught that first time around.

I love conversation of these laws. People must be educated. Ignorance is not an excuse. If someone reads these posts and has really learned something, I'm happy.

 

[*89Laredo*]

Ugh... Cant get the embed to work.

MWC Wheeling.

 

[WB9YZU]

I love conversation of these laws. People must be educated. Ignorance is not an excuse. If someone reads these posts and has really learned something, I'm happy.

I do also.

I can't believe how ignorant the general public is about self defense. Many have interpreted these laws as a retreat the days of the "Wild West" where you can just go out a kill someone with no consequences.

Nothing can be further from the truth. If anything, it places even more responsibility on the gun owner.

 

[FlexdXJ]

The moral of the story is Carry daily to defend yourself, know the laws, get lots of practice and most importantly use your head. Unless you're in Illinois, then well....I hope your good with knives.....

 

[XJosh95]

Nothing can be further from the truth. If anything, it places even more responsibility on the gun owner.

Absolutely! Which is where it should be. We don't need senseless or preventable deaths happening. If someone comes into my house and hears a 12ga rack with double ought and decides to leave, he made a good decision and I don't have to worry about recoil.

 

[WB9YZU]

The moral of the story is Carry daily to defend yourself, know the laws, get lots of practice and most importantly use your head. Unless you're in Illinois, then well....I hope your good with knives.....

Or don't carry at all.

It seems counter intuitive, but not carrying, for most folks, is the probably the best option.

Not getting into areas/situations which force you defend yourself with lethal force and possibly the need to navigate the nasty waters of our legal system for doing so isn't the dumbest option.

The papers would have you believe that there is a gun related murder in "your area" most every second of the day. The fact remains that in much of the US, getting involved in a lethal force situation has as much probability as being struck by lightning, and is just as preventable.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Or don't carry at all.

It seems counter intuitive, but not carrying, for most folks, is the probably the best option.

Not getting into areas/situations which force you defend yourself with lethal force and possibly the need to navigate the nasty waters of our legal system for doing so isn't the dumbest option.

The papers would have you believe that there is a gun related murder in "your area" most every second of the day. The fact remains that in much of the US, getting involved in a lethal force situation has as much probability as being struck by lightning, and is just as preventable.

I agree. All too often people wander in to areas with a false sense of security and end up mugged/shot/raped/dead, circle one. Take the Lauren speirer(sp?) case. She was wandering down the street drunk at 3am in bloomington, IN which is a fairly safe town surrounded by woods with a 10k acre lake and 35,000 college students. She disappeared over a year ago and hasn't been seen since. Criminals there prey on college students since they are normally an east target. I try keep myself out of dangerous situations and areas. I've grown up where I Live and know the area well, I am not afraid to go anywhere in my town unarmed. Indianapolis and some of the college towns is a whole different story.

 

[BRIANHO13]

I finaly got my license to carry when there was a mugging about 100 feet from us downtown Louisville in a parking garage. We have been approached many times downtown by homless druggies wanting money.

How do you keep yourself out of a situation in which you may need to defend yourself, I am sure all those people in Colorado thought they were perfectly safe watching Batman??????

 

[altrocker1]

Very bad, long day...

My tail light caught on fire.

once again another reason why fire extinguishers are important. glad no one got hurt dan. looked at the fb pics...i can see how that would ruin your day. how quick did it go up? i would have crapped myself...had the entire left side of my body engulfed in flames once, one of the scariest things that's ever happened. did the wiring just fry to start it?

 

[shortxjdoug]

How do you keep yourself out of a situation in which you may need to defend yourself, I am sure all those people in Colorado thought they were perfectly safe watching Batman??????

Bingo.....self defense is more than being good with the gun on your hip and knowing laws, sadly enough its a mentality you have to carry with you all the time armed or not. Stay aware and take mental note of your greater place in the situation around you and be smart. Visually and personality wise stay in the gray areas and blend in, there are ways to reduce your profile as a target every day when you walk out the door. I have to remember a lot of this because over 50% of my time is spent where I can't carry, but that doesn't mean I'm not ready or haven't thought about the situations that might happen

 

[FlexdXJ]

Well, just found out my cousin passed away this morning. Apparently he commited suicide. Send up some prayers for his kids and parents if you would like. RIP Brian!