DPG OffRoad's new TrailGunner springs

[Kittrell]

I just prefer to know who is actually making the parts rather then just slapping their sticker on it. That way you have a better idea of what you're actually getting.

 

[RWKHausSupply]

Most companies don't give that information out.

Why would it matter?

MOST will.

It matters cause I would want to know if I am paying premium price for imported steel leafs.

Full traction sells for the same price, and come with military wrap, english eyes and are USA steel.

BDS same or less for the standard build leafs like these (no MW or EE) and I believe 7 or 8 leaf, with teflon pads and lifttime warranty no Q asked and from USA materials.

Rough Country about 150$ less and one leaf less and good warranty, but imported materials.

RE about 125$ less, one less leaf, and imported materials (or so its been evaluated).

Get the idea here.

I would not pay a premium $ for imported materials that are inferior, which I doubt Dirks are, and in that case you would think he would be proud to announce who makes them.

 

[Weasel]

I meant that most that I have talked to won't give out their spring rate. If I give them a spring rate I am shooting for they will say if theirs is higher or lower but thats about it.

As fro where it comes from and how it's amde yeah I understand that but still IMO it doesn't mean much. Just cause it's coming from Alcan, Deaver, or whoever doesn't mean it's quality either. For example Alcan doesn't shot peen any of their springs and say on their website they don't think it helps, while BOR springs are made by Alcan and are shot peened.

I would like to know the grade of steel as well as it will help determine the quality, but if Dirk says they are USA Spring grade steel(Don't remeber the spec of the top of my head) then I'll believe him.

 

[DPG]

I don't have any problem posting spring rates. I'll dig that up and post it.

I spoke to a well known suspension company years ago and asked about their spring rates. They said they couldn't tell me. That's ridiculous. If I'm building my rig a certain way, I want to know that. (For example: I don't want the light spring rate of an OME 2" spring at 5" of lift, and I'd prefer a slightly lighter spring at a lower lift height, etc.) I told him that I wouldn't be buying their product. I don't care WHO makes it for them, but they could sure let me know some details about HOW the springs are made, in regards to spring rate.

There are certain details about what type of spring steel is used, if that is mixed with a different type of steel in the pack, etc, etc, that many off-road dealers/mfg's won't give out because they want to protect their R&D. That's also some technical info that really won't make any difference to the end user and I doubt that anyone can tell you that info about the leafs they bought from anyone!

What the customer really needs to know is most importantly the spring rate and a few of the obvious, important details. Beyond that, it's really up to the springs to prove themselves in the marketplace. No matter what the tech info is, people still have to approve of the product in practical application.
If it stinks, people will know soon enough. If it's a great product, people will know that too. You don't hear people asking those kinds of questions about RE or OME leafs because people know the quality through years of experience. People buy those products every day without knowing any of the questions being asked here.

Of course, on the internet, I still see debates on product quality of different products that have been settled in my mind for years! Many guys just don't have experience with a wide range of products to be able to say with certainty which one's are better. That's why opinions vary so much on the net. Whatever a guy is running on his rig is always the BEST product you can get...

MANY of the big name leafs and coils are imported nowadays. Some from as far away as Malaysia, etc. They get 'em CHEAP. Even those can still be a very good leaf or a very poor leaf. Most any large leaf manufacturer can turn out high or low quality products.

Our leafs are made in North America at least.
Bushings are RUBBER. I do not believe in poly bushings on a jeep for leafs or control arms. (I don't mind them for swaybar links, etc) I like poly on a street car for handling, but they ride rougher and tend to increase the load on mounts and/or inhibit flex on a jeep.

Our 7 leaf pack is firmer than a RE leaf, (for example) but not terribly.

I think that some mfg's are keeping cost down by using less leafs with more arch. That can lend to more wrap and also pre-mature sagging.

It's not rocket science to understand that a 7 leaf pack with less arch should exhibit less wrap than a comparable 6 or 5 leaf pack. Also, we have those little anti-wrap spring clips on the rear of the pack. They do work. Like I said, any pack w/o a traction bar can have some measure of wrap. The question is- How much and is it a problem for a certain application?

Those of you who KNOW me, know that I don't think that way. I strive to build only high quality products, or I don't wanna build them at all.
There will always be products out there that are designed for the low-budget crowd. Ours aren't. I'd MUCH rather pay more for higher quality stuff on my own jeep, and most of our customers prefer the same. I've found over the years that low-cost stuff actually costs more in the long run...

As for reverse arch tolerance's- That question troubles me a bit.
Allowing ANY leaf pack to go into a reverse arch situation is shortening it's life. Leafs just don't like that much.

What kills me is the guy who says:

"I've got an RE 5.5" lift, some 2" lift blocks and some 1.5" lift shackles. I'm putting bigger tires on there, so I'd like to add a little more lift to that"

Me: "Wow- That's a lot of lift-What size tires are you running?"

Him: "Well, it's got 31's on there right now, but I'm gonna bump up to 32's or 33's, so I need that extra lift"

Me: "Daaaaang- How much extra bumpstop are you running?"

Him: "Huh?"

That sounds funny to a lot of us, but I get those calls regularly.
There are guys who have bashed some of the better leafs in the industry, when it was their own fault that they failed. You cannot prop a leaf pack up that far with blocks and really long shackles and then expect them to compress back to the stock leaf stopping point.

I know there are off-road mfg's that will introduce a product without actually testing it. Again, those of you who know me, know better than that.
We've been testing this final prototype of leafs and coils for over a year.
(That's AFTER R&D on many different leaf & coil configurations over the last 5 years)They are the best springs I've run on an XJ for that particular height and application.

I'll dig up the actual spring rate #'s and post them soon-

Thanks!

Dirk

 

[Stumpalump]

That sounds resonable. I have home brew spring pack that I will ditch at some point I have 1" lift built into the axel build and 1" JKS's shackles. I would think you 5" spring would be way too much and I like your therory that 5" is abought right. Could you recomend a 3 or 3.5" spring for me? Soft and flexy would be OK because I am Fabing up a antiwrap bar.

 

[Kittrell]

I expected no less.

Offtopic, been keeping my eye on the skid redesign. I was after one before, but you can definitely expect a phone call come tax return time.............:thumbup:

 

[Kittrell]

Could you recomend a 3 or 3.5" spring for me? Soft and flexy would be OK because I am Fabing up a antiwrap bar.

2.5" OME with the OME AAL. OME ZJ V8 coil up front.

 

[DPG]

2.5" OME with the OME AAL. OME ZJ V8 coil up front.

I'd tend to agree with this leaf recommendation. The OME leaf with their OME extra leaf would be great for your application.

The ZJ coils in front may or may not be what you want. They are a heavier spring rate than the XJ coils. Some like them and some think they're too stiff.
Just depends on your personal preferences. For the guys running a heavy bumper and winch, the OME ZJ coils are mandatory on smaller lifts.

 

[Weasel]

I don't have any problem posting spring rates. I'll dig that up and post it.

I spoke to a well known suspension company years ago and asked about their spring rates. They said they couldn't tell me. That's ridiculous. If I'm building my rig a certain way, I want to know that. (For example: I don't want the light spring rate of an OME 2" spring at 5" of lift, and I'd prefer a slightly lighter spring at a lower lift height, etc.) I told him that I wouldn't be buying their product. I don't care WHO makes it for them, but they could sure let me know some details about HOW the springs are made, in regards to spring rate.

There are certain details about what type of spring steel is used, if that is mixed with a different type of steel in the pack, etc, etc, that many off-road dealers/mfg's won't give out because they want to protect their R&D. That's also some technical info that really won't make any difference to the end user and I doubt that anyone can tell you that info about the leafs they bought from anyone!

What the customer really needs to know is most importantly the spring rate and a few of the obvious, important details. Beyond that, it's really up to the springs to prove themselves in the marketplace. No matter what the tech info is, people still have to approve of the product in practical application.
If it stinks, people will know soon enough. If it's a great product, people will know that too. You don't hear people asking those kinds of questions about RE or OME leafs because people know the quality through years of experience. People buy those products every day without knowing any of the questions being asked here.

Of course, on the internet, I still see debates on product quality of different products that have been settled in my mind for years! Many guys just don't have experience with a wide range of products to be able to say with certainty which one's are better. That's why opinions vary so much on the net. Whatever a guy is running on his rig is always the BEST product you can get...

MANY of the big name leafs and coils are imported nowadays. Some from as far away as Malaysia, etc. They get 'em CHEAP. Even those can still be a very good leaf or a very poor leaf. Most any large leaf manufacturer can turn out high or low quality products.

Our leafs are made in North America at least.
Bushings are RUBBER. I do not believe in poly bushings on a jeep for leafs or control arms. (I don't mind them for swaybar links, etc) I like poly on a street car for handling, but they ride rougher and tend to increase the load on mounts and/or inhibit flex on a jeep.

Our 7 leaf pack is firmer than a RE leaf, (for example) but not terribly.

I think that some mfg's are keeping cost down by using less leafs with more arch. That can lend to more wrap and also pre-mature sagging.

It's not rocket science to understand that a 7 leaf pack with less arch should exhibit less wrap than a comparable 6 or 5 leaf pack. Also, we have those little anti-wrap spring clips on the rear of the pack. They do work. Like I said, any pack w/o a traction bar can have some measure of wrap. The question is- How much and is it a problem for a certain application?

Those of you who KNOW me, know that I don't think that way. I strive to build only high quality products, or I don't wanna build them at all.
There will always be products out there that are designed for the low-budget crowd. Ours aren't. I'd MUCH rather pay more for higher quality stuff on my own jeep, and most of our customers prefer the same. I've found over the years that low-cost stuff actually costs more in the long run...

As for reverse arch tolerance's- That question troubles me a bit.
Allowing ANY leaf pack to go into a reverse arch situation is shortening it's life. Leafs just don't like that much.



Dirk

If your willing to share spring rates then thats cool, I always assumed it was part of R&D that took alot of money and something you didn't just want someone to rip off.

Steel grade, formation process, heat treatments, and surface finishing help predict how a leaf will handle fatique(what usually kills them). And yes reverse arching is bad on leaves, but higher quality ones will hold up better.
And there are different grades that work better.

As for axle wrap, yes the greater number of leaves and the clips will help, but axle wrap is a function of a type of natural frequency vibration, if I'm remembvering my vehicle dynamics correctly.

In Dirk's case or even BOR I will believe them if they say it's stiffer then a RE but softer then a Tomken leaf.

 

[GrayT]

Pictures would be excellente!

 

[Jeepin Jason]

Well, I got the springs put in over the weekend. Here's some 'spy' shots of my rig right after finishing the spring swap. Since the springs had just been put on and not even driven on yet, I figure they should settle in just a bit from how it sits in these pics.

I'm running the DPG TrailGunner leafs and coils, with JKS shackles in the back and some 3/4" coil spacers up front. Tires are 36x13.5" IROKs on 15x8" TR beadlocks (yes, I know they're going to be a tight fit, haha).

(and yes, we have an old area rug in the garage, haha)

 

[Matt98XJ]

Looks good Jason. You still running the D30 up front?

 

[Jeepin Jason]

Yup. We haven't busted anything on our D30s yet with the 35" MT/R's and our wheeling style, and while the IROKs are noticeably bigger, they don't weigh any more, so I'm hoping we can continue to hold the 30s together [knock on wood trim].

Of course, all that could change once I get a Tera 4:1 or Atlas under my rig later in the year...

 

[andrew2516]

Yup. We haven't busted anything on our D30s yet with the 35" MT/R's and our wheeling style, and while the IROKs are noticeably bigger, they don't weigh any more, so I'm hoping we can continue to hold the 30s together [knock on wood trim].

Of course, all that could change once I get a Tera 4:1 or Atlas under my rig later in the year...

I plan to run 36"s on my HP30 also...do you have upgraded shafts Jason?

 

[Jeepin Jason]

Our TJ has still has stock shafts, our XJ has Warn shafts and the small manual hubs.

 

[Matt98XJ]

I'm intersted in a pair of those leaves. I haven't had much luck with the RE leaves. A spool in the rear will wear out a set of springs fast.

 

[jeepme]

Jason

Are you running the radial or Bias ply Irocks and do you know how much lighter than the MTR's they are. I am thinking of the exact same tire choice as my MTR's are spent. Sorry for the off subject post you can IM me.

 

[Jeepin Jason]

Ours are bias. They're mounted on 15x8" Trailready alloy beadlocks. Mounted, the 36x13.5" IROKs weighed about 90lbs each, vs ~88-89lbs for our 35x12.5" MT/R's on cheap steel rims. The IROKs are going to be trail-only tires, we're keeping the MT/R's for regular DD/street use.

 

[DPG]

OK gang,
I finally got back over here to post some spring rates.
Sorry for the delay!

Our TrailGunner 5" coils are a 198lbs/in spring rate.

Nice & firm, but not TOO stiff. Ride quality with LA's or drop brackets and quality shocks is exceptional, while providing awesome flex and stability.
Of course, made from very high quality spring steel and manufactured to the highest specs & shotpeened.

Our TrailGunner Leaf springs are 233lbs/in spring rate.
Again, no materials from overseas and manufactured to very high standards.

This pack is a proprietary mix of multiple spring thicknesses and alloys to produce a pack that displays the stability, ride quality, flex, anti-wrap qualities and durabilty not found in most leafs available these days.

Leaf spring design can be a complex thing. It is possible to have a leaf spring with a lighter spring RATE than ours that could actually ride poorly in comparison. The number of leafs, material thickness and lengths, type of spring steel used, degree of arch applied and some other factors all contribute to the characteristics a particular leaf pack will exhibit.

I continue to be way more than impressed with these springs.
Thanks!

 

[roxj]

what is the actual lift height of the coils and leafs? any numbers for them after they have been broken in? how do they do when used with aftermarket bumpers and winches? you wouldnt happen to have some numbers to compare your spring rates with re and others would you?