CSF 3-Row Radiators discontinued

[DPG]

I'm on the same page with the low buck china made aluminum job.

Aluminum is very efficient, but that one sounds like trouble.

I know of one company that builds very high quality all aluminum XJ radiators, but last I checked- they were around $600.00!!!:flame:

I would only use that in the most extreme conditions- high altitude, extreme heat, blocked grill, lot's of weight, long steep grades, etc...

 

[dbperformance96]

I have an 89 and would like to convert to the open system. What all is needed? Just the radiator or ? I currently have an all aluminum 2 core but it's not making the cut. I want something better. My zip is 93662. Thanks.

 

[Weasel]

I know of one company that builds very high quality all aluminum XJ radiators, but last I checked- they were around $600.00!!!:flame:.

Ron Davis wasn' it. Thats the price was thinking of. Someone should check with Griffen and see if they will make a lower buck one since they are into supporting the rock crawling sport. Might be agood place to get a new line Dirk.

 

[boomhauer]

Flatlander? where the hang do you think I live? :jester:

Hmmm, why did i think North Dakota...i need a doctor.:wow: -B

 

[cher96]

Even if there are no 3 Row all Metal Radiators available, a Hi Flow Water Pump and Thermostat Housing with a Hi Flow Thermostat may do the Trick in keeping the Engine Cool.

Adding a Large External Oil Cooler, like I have done, with a Oil Flow Thermostat could assist in Engine Cooling. I also use Synthetic Oil that doesn't burn like Organic Oil does.

 

[DPG]

I have an 89 and would like to convert to the open system. What all is needed? Just the radiator or ? I currently have an all aluminum 2 core but it's not making the cut. I want something better. My zip is 93662. Thanks.

I haven't done the conversion personally, as all of our personal XJ's have been '97 or newer models.
I know you'll need a newer model thermostat housing and an overflow bottle.
Not sure what else.
I know there's a couple of conversion articles out there.
Maybe someone can post a link...

 

[DPG]

Ron Davis wasn' it. Thats the price was thinking of. Someone should check with Griffen and see if they will make a lower buck one since they are into supporting the rock crawling sport. Might be agood place to get a new line Dirk.

Maybe. I had discussed the possibility of reviving the CSF rads after they went out of production, but we'd probably have to order several hundred units at least for them to even consider it. He said the price would likely be even higher at that.
They've been talking about doing away with the all metal units for a couple of years now. Last summer, we were only able to get 15 units total.
I'll sure be checking all the options here.
I've liked the CSF units better than any traditional all metal rad I've seen...

 

[DPG]

Even if there are no 3 Row all Metal Radiators available, a Hi Flow Water Pump and Thermostat Housing with a Hi Flow Thermostat may do the Trick in keeping the Engine Cool.

Been there, done that. An older inefficient radiator is just that. Moving that coolant through there faster just decreases the dwell time that the fluid has to cool in the radiator.
It won't fix the problem.

Adding a Large External Oil Cooler, like I have done, with a Oil Flow Thermostat could assist in Engine Cooling. I also use Synthetic Oil that doesn't burn like Organic Oil does.

Depending on the cooler type, a large oil cooler can restrict airflow through the radiator and of course, it sheds it's heat right into the radiator if it's mounted in front.
Traditional tube & fin coolers allow better airflow through than the newer plate type coolers.
While it can make a nice difference in oil or trans temps, it won't make up for an inefficient radiator. Depending on the climate you live in, it may not be advisable to run an external trans cooler that excludes the radiator completely.
I do agree with the synthetic oil. I run as much synthetic lube in my rigs as I can.

 

[Weasel]

I haven't done the conversion personally, as all of our personal XJ's have been '97 or newer models.
I know you'll need a newer model thermostat housing and an overflow bottle.
Not sure what else.
I know there's a couple of conversion articles out there.
Maybe someone can post a link...

Or you can get a filler neck from summit or Jegs and splice it into your upper rad hose and use the expansion bottle as the catch can.

Last summer, we were only able to get 15 units total.
I'll sure be checking all the options here.
I've liked the CSF units better than any traditional all metal rad I've seen...

you maybe able to get a decent price is you ordered a "lot" of them. Say if you only typically sell 15 a summer then have a batch order of 15 done, might be able to get a quantity price break. Griffen makes a bunch of different grades and price ranges so you never know.

 

[Ecomike]

I haven't done the conversion personally, as all of our personal XJ's have been '97 or newer models.
I know you'll need a newer model thermostat housing and an overflow bottle.
Not sure what else.
I know there's a couple of conversion articles out there.
Maybe someone can post a link...

Why change the T-Stat housing? I don't see the need.

 

[DPG]

you maybe able to get a decent price is you ordered a "lot" of them. Say if you only typically sell 15 a summer then have a batch order of 15 done, might be able to get a quantity price break. Griffen makes a bunch of different grades and price ranges so you never know.

CSF won't even consider doing a production run of 15 units.

I can sell 15 units a week during the summer months.
15 units was all we could get our hands on last summer. It wasn't because we didn't order them. They just didn't make enough.

Our warehouse already gets large quantity pricing.

 

[DPG]

Why change the T-Stat housing? I don't see the need.

The temp sensor on the older units is located in the radiator.

There is no provision for the temp sensor on the newer model radiators as the sensor is located in the thermostat housing.

 

[Ecomike]

Been there, done that. An older inefficient radiator is just that. Moving that coolant through there faster just decreases the dwell time that the fluid has to cool in the radiator.
It won't fix the problem.


Depending on the cooler type, a large oil cooler can restrict airflow through the radiator and of course, it sheds it's heat right into the radiator if it's mounted in front.
Traditional tube & fin coolers allow better airflow through than the newer plate type coolers.
While it can make a nice difference in oil or trans temps, it won't make up for an inefficient radiator. Depending on the climate you live in, it may not be advisable to run an external trans cooler that excludes the radiator completely.
I do agree with the synthetic oil. I run as much synthetic lube in my rigs as I can.

As you have previously pointed out, there are many variables involved, and changing one changes the others. There are situations where a high flow pump will improve the cooling. IN some cases a new radiator helps, in some cases a new, better radiator helps, in some cases a better, new radiator and a high flow (new) pump will outperform one or the other by themselves. I could design a situation where an used radiator would see improved cooling with a high flow pump. It would also see improved cooling with a new radiator. Which is better, depends on the used and new radiator, radiator condition, and the pressure / flow difference in the pumps.
In other words, under the right conditions, better coolant flow will dissipate more heat. Under other conditions it will not. In fact under some conditions, additional coolant flow can cause problems.

The other issue is cost per unit change in performance. Water pumps are less expensive than radiators. That said, in most cases I would change a radiator first, unless it was already new, or it was new POS.

Also if the overheating is at highway speed, I would favor a bigger surface area radiator over a high flow pump (assuming the existing pump is working). If the overheating is at idle, it might be a toss up. If at idle I had a good 40 F delta T across the radiator, I might favor a high flow pump, unless the radiator is partly clogged, and reducing the flow, in which case one should probably deal with the radiator first. If the delta T across the radiator was 20 F at idle, I would be more inclined to replace the radiator with a bigger radiator (more tubes, more area), assuming the fans and clutches are working properly.

 

[Ecomike]

The temp sensor on the older units is located in the radiator.

There is no provision for the temp sensor on the newer model radiators as the sensor is located in the thermostat housing.

Good point, but there are other potential locations, or one can install an on off toggle switch for the E-fan. I use a bypass toggle switch where the temp switch use to connect. On in the summer, off in the winter.

 

[bwinter1946]

I guess I think differently. While I have not had overheating problems with my XJ yet, I know they are coming. It is a '99, auto trans, with 46,000 miles on it. Lift kit, bigger tires, bigger gears, winch bumper, new rear bumper, skids, rock rails, boat towing, and 110+ degree summer days are all in its' future. I've had previous vehicles set up and cooling has always been an issue in the summer. For me there is nothing more frustrating than running down the freeway, off roading, or towing with a hot engine. I also hate explaining to the wife why we can't run the A/C. I hate it especially if I could have resolved it earlier with a little more money or a little better equipment.

Bottom line: I have a "spare" CSF three row in my garage from Dirk for when it is needed. I like to "know" it will work and I value experienced guidance when it is offered. No sales pitch here. If others have valid experience fine, no argument it is just my experience with XJs is extremely limited and I want to do my mods right the first time. It was $195.00 shipped to California. Well worth my piece of mind IMHO.

Now having said all this I have no financial interest in DPG Offroad or CSF it is just my $0.02

 

[DPG]

Good point, but there are other potential locations, or one can install an on off toggle switch for the E-fan. I use a bypass toggle switch where the temp switch use to connect. On in the summer, off in the winter.

You asked why change the t-stat housing. I explained it.

You can do something else if you like.
Many people don't want a manual switch for their fan because they don't want to forget to turn it off & on.
I'm one of those people. I don't want to be negotiating an extreme obstacle that requires some intense focus and realize that my engine is way too hot because I forgot to hit the switch.
If a cooling system works properly, a switch isn't really needed- unless someone wants to defeat the fan for deep water crossings.

I've used high flow pumps and thermostats in XJ's. I have not found that they make a real difference at all compared to swapping out the stock radiator.
If the pump is OK, a new rad, fan clutch and thermostat with a fresh 50/50 coolant mix is the most dramatic and reliable cooling system upgrade I've seen.

 

[Weasel]

CSF won't even consider doing a production run of 15 units.

I can sell 15 units a week during the summer months.
15 units was all we could get our hands on last summer. It wasn't because we didn't order them. They just didn't make enough.

Our warehouse already gets large quantity pricing.

15 was just thrown out there. If you sell more call Griffen and ask what a run of 180 would be then. Price break was for someone else to make them. CSF is pretty much out of the game so not much sense in talking with them about it.

 

[Ecomike]

15 was just thrown out there. If you sell more call Griffen and ask what a run of 180 would be then. Price break was for someone else to make them. CSF is pretty much out of the game so not much sense in talking with them about it.

Radiatorbarn.com tells me they have no problem getting them (CSF 3 row):dunno:, as of yesterday.

 

[MT Mike]

Radiatorbarn.com tells me they have no problem getting them (CSF 3 row):dunno:, as of yesterday.

I highly doubt Dirk is blowing smoke up our collective asses. I would be a lot more likely to take his word for it than some phone flunky at radiatorbarn.

 

[boomhauer]

I highly doubt Dirk is blowing smoke up our collective asses. I would be a lot more likely to take his word for it than some phone flunky at radiatorbarn.

X2 and don't forget Dirk ain't gonna send you a 2 core with crimped tanks and blame it on the fine print.