4.5 Duramax Diesel Cherokee Retrofit??

[KJurasek]

"Warranty might not apply when installed into an XJ, unless you buy it as a crate engine, and then you're looking at ridiculous money. And again, the people who've done the swap, with 5.3s, no less, are reporting mileage no better, and in some cases worse, than the 4.0. I know of at least a couple with strokers getting around 17 mpg"

Are they running with fuel injection or carb??

A lot of things come into play here when expecting larger MPG gains such as vehicle weight, tire size and gearing. As for the warranty, yes I am going with a crate engine. For the amount of money I have sunk into the stroker, I could have easily bought a 6.0l LQ4 in the vehicle. OK, maybe it will come out a little more, but I am thinking of the overall benefits and not just MPG.

A 5.3 in a Cherokee? Well it is a fast revving engine, but would be better off going with the 5.7. As for me, there is not much difference between the 5.3 (about 325 hp) and the 4.9 (310 hp) I have already. It simply would not be worth it.

Now a 400 hp 6.0l LQ4 or 450 hp LQ9??

Well now, that might be worth looking at.


But wait a minute, wasn't this whole conversation about the possible install of the 4.5 Duramax????

 

[Darky]

Are they running with fuel injection or carb??

Vortec 5300 straight from a truck, fuel injection and all. At least one of them is running the donor's gauges because they don't easily cooperate with the XJ's gauges.

A lot of things come into play here when expecting larger MPG gains such as vehicle weight, tire size and gearing. As for the warranty, yes I am going with a crate engine. For the amount of money I have sunk into the stroker, I could have easily bought a 6.0l LQ4 in the vehicle. OK, maybe it will come out a little more, but I am thinking of the overall benefits and not just MPG.

Based on your description of your rig, it sounds pretty similar to their rigs. Your mpgs would likely be similar. I think John said he's getting 10 or so, but he hasn't been easy on it either. Which, you know you'd be stomping on it too... BTW, where have you found a crate LS series for similar price to the stroker? Most strokers I see top out around $5-6k, whereas most small block crate engines start at $6k or so. The 6.0s I've seen are usually towards the upper end of the spectrum.

Also, remember that when tossing the engine in, you'll be replacing absolutely everything. Motor mounts, tranny, t-case, driveshafts, crossmember, gauges, specialty headers (there's only one or two sets that fit inside our chassis with that engine), full wiring harness, all sensors, twin cats unless you go single exhaust, etc etc. Even fitting the engine under the hood requires either specialty parts or custom hand made parts.

A 5.3 in a Cherokee? Well it is a fast revving engine, but would be better off going with the 5.7. As for me, there is not much difference between the 5.3 (about 325 hp) and the 4.9 (310 hp) I have already. It simply would not be worth it.

Now a 400 hp 6.0l LQ4 or 450 hp LQ9??

Well now, that might be worth looking at.

The 5.3 makes more power than the 5.7. Or at least, compared to any 5.7 that came from the truck series. A Vette 350 might have more power, but it's gonna be more money too. And while it may only be 15 horses more than you already have, remember, as you keep saying, it's stock at this point. You can build from there. Also, unless I'm completely missing something here, the LQ4 is the one making around 325hp with the LQ9 around 345. Either would move the XJ fine, of course. Built, they could easily hit the numbers you're looking at, but then you're looking at even more money on top of just getting the thing in there.

But wait a minute, wasn't this whole conversation about the possible install of the 4.5 Duramax????

This is , no topic is safe, all may be derailed. Besides, I thought we already decided it's not likely to be doable since the 4.5 Duramax doesn't exist.


And don't think I'm trying to talk you out of a V8 or that I think I could talk you out of it. If that's what you really want, go for it! I'm just trying to make sure you don't throw all this money into the 4.9 just to waste even more going for a V8 and find it to be more expensive than you thought. A stroker can be expensive, but it drops right in place with no other major changes needed.

 

[Super mud]

5.3 makes around 275hp, 6.0 around 325 < 4.9 stroker

Of course you could get some more out of both v8s but I think 325 is an awful lot to get tired of.

Edit: ^ That post snuck in before me says it pretty good

 

[Darky]

I know... just teasing in good fun. After a year and a half I finally got to where I want to be and I'm proud of it.

I know that the stroker guys love what they have and for most of them it is more than is needed. Where I live I have access to these dunes and a stroker just won't cut it. Will a stroker get you to the top? Yes. Will it be this much fun? No.

I have contributed plenty to FrankZ's thread about the trials and tribulations of a V8 swap.

Frank Z's thread

 

[GrimmJeeper]

food for thought:



from the youtube page:

Newcomer racing custom built street Jeep 4.7 Stroker project 'Camo', Dyno pulls were started at 2,500rpms with 312ft/lbs and still making over 306.2ft/lbs@6,000rpms. Horsepower came on the page at 148.5@2500rpms and carried 349.9@6,000rpms. 4.7(.060"), 9.7:1 Compression, 2.02/1.60 (Inhouse) ported head(LS valve train-Comp), Comp Custom 218/223, .500+" lift, 1.7 Yella Terra roller (non adjustable) rockers, 3/8" (Custom pushrods), (Custom)Ross pistons, (Custom)Total seal rings, Double roller timing, (Custom Inhouse) header to fit 03 Wrangler, modified clifford intake w/750 Holley

 

[jamiemac]

Pretty cool seeing those headers glow.

 

[Darky]

I wonder what the peak numbers were. Either way, the numbers provided sound pretty beefy!

 

[bjoehandley]

I don't know if it was my phone or what, but it sure as hell was starting to sound like a piston powered airplane.

 

[alex22]

food for thought:



from the youtube page:

Newcomer racing custom built street Jeep 4.7 Stroker project 'Camo', Dyno pulls were started at 2,500rpms with 312ft/lbs and still making over 306.2ft/lbs@6,000rpms. Horsepower came on the page at 148.5@2500rpms and carried 349.9@6,000rpms. 4.7(.060"), 9.7:1 Compression, 2.02/1.60 (Inhouse) ported head(LS valve train-Comp), Comp Custom 218/223, .500+" lift, 1.7 Yella Terra roller (non adjustable) rockers, 3/8" (Custom pushrods), (Custom)Ross pistons, (Custom)Total seal rings, Double roller timing, (Custom Inhouse) header to fit 03 Wrangler, modified clifford intake w/750 Holley

... and its going to get forced induction.

 

[KJurasek]

Yeah.... You are correct. I will give my stroker a chance and see what happens. As for the crate engines, Summit Racing is listing a GM Performance custom 6.0L with around 400 hp for $3800 delivered. Not bad. Finish the top side and harness for another $1000, slap a 4L60E on for $1200 (rebuilt) and you would be set. That is around $6,000 complete. As for my stroker, buy the time it is finished it would be around $5,000.

But like I said, I will give the stroker a chance. If anything I can rebuild the lower end and put a blower on it. If I did that, then I would probably have to worry about the AW4.

All of this is some interesting brain-storming with the possibilities.

 

[Super mud]

Yeah.... You are correct. I will give my stroker a chance and see what happens. As for the crate engines, Summit Racing is listing a GM Performance custom 6.0L with around 400 hp for $3800 delivered. Not bad. Finish the top side and harness for another $1000, slap a 4L60E on for $1200 (rebuilt) and you would be set. That is around $6,000 complete. As for my stroker, buy the time it is finished it would be around $5,000.

Well since you put it that way, I'd go with the v8. :thumbup:

 

[KJurasek]

Well since you put it that way, I'd go with the v8. :thumbup:

Eventually I began to feel the same way. It is a "toss up" between the two. Sure a stroked 4.0L is easier, but it runs into some limitations the further you want to modify it. And the more extreme these modifications go, the more expensive and difficult they become. It just hits the point where other engine setups start to look interesting. However, I do like the build by Newcomer Racing. It is getting similar power a LS1, but I have some questions. Why such a relatively mild cam? I guess the reason why they went with a fairly mild cam is because they going to put a turbo / blower on it. Not sure.

This is going to be something to watch.

 

[alex22]

Yeah.... You are correct. I will give my stroker a chance and see what happens. As for the crate engines, Summit Racing is listing a GM Performance custom 6.0L with around 400 hp for $3800 delivered. Not bad. Finish the top side and harness for another $1000, slap a 4L60E on for $1200 (rebuilt) and you would be set. That is around $6,000 complete. As for my stroker, buy the time it is finished it would be around $5,000.

But like I said, I will give the stroker a chance. If anything I can rebuild the lower end and put a blower on it. If I did that, then I would probably have to worry about the AW4.

All of this is some interesting brain-storming with the possibilities.

How crazy are you going with your stroker with 5K invested? When figuring the price of a V8 swap don't forget about headers, custom fab work on the exhaust, engine mounts, drive shaft adapters and such.

 

[KJurasek]

How crazy are you going with your stroker with 5K invested? When figuring the price of a V8 swap don't forget about headers, custom fab work on the exhaust, engine mounts, drive shaft adapters and such.

How crazy with 5K invested? It is going to be more than that. More in the neighborhood of 6K.

But to answer your question, do the modifications and "tweaking" ever end??

I like the idea of ending with the 4.9, but I will have to see how satisfied I am once it is finished.

It is a dangerous thing to have lots of idle time at work to think about things like this.

 

[Miller88]

How about a 1.8 TDI? In theory, I think a 1.8 TDI and NSG370 would be a nice setup! (I say in theory because we all know the NSG370 is a horrible transmission)

 

[KJurasek]

You mean the Jeep 2.8 TDI right? I have considered both the 2.8 tdi and the 3.0 CRD, but I am a little hesitant in several regards. First is the cost: they are generally harder to find and more costly. Two is dealing with the Peizo fuel injection system: this is a fairly complex system under very high pressure (a lot of work to setup). Third is aftermarket support: not much out there for them.

 

[alex22]

How about a 1.8 TDI? In theory, I think a 1.8 TDI and NSG370 would be a nice setup! (I say in theory because we all know the NSG370 is a horrible transmission)

The 4 cylinder TDIs are either 1.9L or 2.0L. There is a member over on TDIclub that is in the process of swapping one into a Cherokee.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=336733

I have 2 TDI engines and wiring harnesses sitting around but haven't had any time to start my own swap.

~Alex

 

[KJurasek]

The 4 cylinder TDIs are either 1.9L or 2.0L. There is a member over on TDIclub that is in the process of swapping one into a Cherokee.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=336733

I have 2 TDI engines and wiring harnesses sitting around but haven't had any time to start my own swap.

~Alex

A 1.8 or 2.0 TDi? Well, I think it depends on the weight of the vehicle and ones driving habits. It would be great for MPG, but....

:dunno:

 

[alex22]

A 1.8 or 2.0 TDi? Well, I think it depends on the weight of the vehicle and ones driving habits. It would be great for MPG, but....

:dunno:

The 1.8T (gasoline) looks like a pretty pointless swap unless someone was to give you a hopped up one for free.

My brother's 2003 1.9L TDI puts more torque to the wheels than my Cherokee, which at the time the TDI only had injectors and an exhaust with a stock tune and was getting low 40's for MPG
The TDI: 206 ft*lbs @ 2000 RPM --- 124 hp @ 4100 RPM
The 4.0: 164 ft*lbs @ 2400 RPM --- 133.1 hp @ 4650 RPM

Getting a 1.9L TDI up to 150HP and about 300 ft*lbs is not too hard to do with a hybrid turbo, tune, exhaust and injectors. It would make a nice swap if the heavy flywheel was used in the Jeep.

The 1.9 TDI with a rotary injection pump is the easiest to find and is more affordable than the 2.0 common rail TDI used in late model cars (2007+ IIRC.)

~Alex

 

[Super mud]

So are those dyno numbers?