Your opinion please....

[Goatman]

Goatman, I appreciated every word you've posted here and it's well received. I guess my reaction to your contribution is that, in this day and age, your mature, laid back approach is....well, euphoric when applied to moderating our National public forums. Not realistic given the average age of those that tend to be involved in the flame wars and poor behavior. They're cut from a different cloth anymore and hard to reason with. Many are so caught up in hedonistic pursuits that showing respect isn't even a fleeting thought. Everything is "what's in it for me, and it better happen right now." My position here in regards to forum moderation, needs to adopt a direct answer to those kinds of attitudes. Answers like "Behave or you'll see exactly what's in it for you, and it will happen - right now."

I don't think I actually posted a position of my own, only concerns over hearing some conflicting points. I did offer a couple of small suggestions that we can all do, not requirering any mod or BOD action.

Troy and the rest of you who are talking about enforcing the rules, what would you like to see enforced? I tend to stay away from BS, and if I see a post that I'm not interested in I just ignore it. I've heard about threads and things that have happened that I didn't see myself.

I've heard that we don't enforce the rules.

I've heard that we're too picky enforcing the rules.

I've heard that we let too much go, and I've heard that we enforce too tight an interpretation.

Can you be more specific about what you'd like to be allowed and disallowed, and what to do about it?

 

[F. F.]

I guess this post confuses me a little, so hopefully Led will clear up what he meant.

"The forum NAZI's need to be put in their place"
Who do you mean? And what do you propose? Are you talking about Moderators that you think are over-bearing? If so, please explain... Mods just follow the rules that are laid down by the BOD. Two have recently (last month?)cbeen "releived of duty", so if you perceive an issue still exists, or can add light to the subject, it would be appreciated..... I do find it offensive to refer to volunteers as NAZI's though.... and quite unfair.

"On a more formal note I WILL NOT put up with the foolishness ....."
Again, maybe some clarification is in order. Are you saying that there are Forum NAZIS that are too strict, but not strict enough for what you want censored, and that YOU would be a toughter Mod and not allow ANY such foolishness?

Just want to be clear on the message you want to get accross.

And Yellaheep, though I understand you want this thread to be responded to by Colorado folks only, that is an unrealistic expectation. These forums are open to all, including those from other areas. If you want to restrict it somehow, it needs to be either in the Members area, or the Chapter can have their own forum, etc... Just ideas for the melting pot.

Good survey, and good responses. Nice to see folks caring enough to respond.

MY opinion,YOU asked,everyone needs to lighten up,this is a jeep board!! The forum NAZI's need to be put in their place ,but at the same time we need to enforce the core rules.Just because you read a thread it doesn't mean you have to comment on it.if you are messing with someone in a thread make sure anyone reading it KNOWS you are messing around or it just stirs up more crap.If it where up to me there would be only 4 boards (+chapter boards)to post on (for sale, tech, non tech,members) we don't need over a dozen! K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid. You don't need a rule for everything it won't solve everything like some people think. I don't want to have to call my lawyer to interpret the bylaws and forum rules. Its a jeep board, this should be a laid back and fun environment lets try to keep it that way.

On a more formal note I WILL NOT put up with the foolishness that is going on else where on these boards. Personal attacks and general idiocy will be deleted!! I am not saying you can't mess with someone in a light hearted manner or push buttons on a friend, but don't bash a new guy cause he comes here and asks how to make his D 35 better. we all started somewhere. And to cover the bases keep your politics and religion to yourself, its a jeep board. If you can not play by these very simple rules you will be TOLD to leave!!

Well that's my .02 I hope I didn't offend anyone(if I did get over it its a jeep board )These are just my general thoughts and not directed as a response to anyone else's response.

Now everyone go work on your jeeps that's an order :cheers:
Led

P.S. don't ever make me type this much again :rattle:

 

[YELLAHEEP]

RESPECT thats the bottom line. Respect others positions and live and let live. Flames have no place on . Its one thing to give your buddies a hard time and give them an elbow every so often, but the right to do that is earned through mutual respect. Without it, it degenerates into bedlam. Led is a prime example. He can dish it out pretty good, but I have never seen him treat anyone without respect, pretty much even if they don't deserve it. Because of that he is respected, not only as a wheeler but as a person.

Yep, Led is a great guy - especially since he now respects Pro Comp MT's........ :laugh3:
(sorry, couldn't resist....)

 

[YELLAHEEP]

And Yellaheep, though I understand you want this thread to be responded to by Colorado folks only, that is an unrealistic expectation. These forums are open to all, including those from other areas. If you want to restrict it somehow, it needs to be either in the Members area, or the Chapter can have their own forum, etc... Just ideas for the melting pot.

PM'd ya with specific questions/comments, but isn't that exactly what I've done here? I posted this in my chapter forum as chapter business.

And about restricting input, it was a respectful request that it remain Colorado participant based..... not a demand. And I do not want this to be for Members only - this is something that everyone should participate in.

I'm actually surprised that there's been this much "outsider" interest. Kinda cool.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

I don't think I actually posted a position of my own, only concerns over hearing some conflicting points. I did offer a couple of small suggestions that we can all do, not requirering any mod or BOD action.

Troy and the rest of you who are talking about enforcing the rules, what would you like to see enforced? I tend to stay away from BS, and if I see a post that I'm not interested in I just ignore it. I've heard about threads and things that have happened that I didn't see myself.

I've heard that we don't enforce the rules.

I've heard that we're too picky enforcing the rules.

I've heard that we let too much go, and I've heard that we enforce too tight an interpretation.

Can you be more specific about what you'd like to be allowed and disallowed, and what to do about it?

Heh heh, sorry if I mis-represented anything about your post Richard, nevertheless, you raised some excellent points.

"I've heard that we don't enforce the rules."

I'd like to see strict, uniform enforcement of the Forum Rules of Conduct on the Public Forums. Written as they are, they provide the BOD and Moderators every oportunity to clean up the Public Forums. The Public Forum Moderators need to be as unified in their enforcement as they can - I understand that this may be a bit euphoric, but maybe it could be cleared up a bit with a more specific "job description" being created for the moderators.
As an example, I think that when two people or a small group start to engage in a flame war then the moderator should delete the posts in violation of the Forum Rules - if it continues or if the thread appears to be a total loss, then delete the entire thread. Period. Or when it's obvious that a person stalks newbies, routinely creates unconstructive, disrespectful or inflamatory posts, then those posts need to be deleted and that person needs to be issued a warning.
After that, I think a "3 strikes" rule should be strictly enforced and a temporary ban should be placed on that individual. First banning, 15 days, second, 30 days. After 2 bannings, then remove them completely.

"I've heard that we're too picky enforcing the rules."

Not from where I'm standing.... :laugh3:

 

[Led]

I guess this post confuses me a little, so hopefully Led will clear up what he meant.

"The forum NAZI's need to be put in their place"
Who do you mean? And what do you propose? Are you talking about Moderators that you think are over-bearing? If so, please explain... Mods just follow the rules that are laid down by the BOD. Two have recently (last month?)cbeen "releived of duty", so if you perceive an issue still exists, or can add light to the subject, it would be appreciated..... I do find it offensive to refer to volunteers as NAZI's though.... and quite unfair.

I am not refering to the mods as a whole, mostly just to the 2 that where relieved and any other who would act in that same manner.I realize you guys have a very hard job especialy with the amount of whining thats been going on lately.But some people take on the job just to have a sense of power ,these are the ones I refer to as Nazi's. I'm sorry you thought I was placing you in this catagory it was never my intent

"On a more formal note I WILL NOT put up with the foolishness ....."
Again, maybe some clarification is in order. Are you saying that there are Forum NAZIS that are too strict, but not strict enough for what you want censored, and that YOU would be a toughter Mod and not allow ANY such foolishness?

Thats is a hard one to put to words , but in general what I won't tolerate are posts thats only intent is to start crap or piss someone off. I definetly am not saying I could do a better job than you and your team. I'm just saying I will do my best to keep the B.S. posts under control within this chapter. This has been very easy so far as we haven't had any problems yet. We will just deal with everything as it comes up and hopefuly we will be able to do it ourselves, Keep it at a squad level so to speak.


Led

 

[F. F.]

Thanks for the clarification Led. It was not a worry who specifically you were referring to, but rather if you still percieved their to be a widespread Moderation issue.

As far as Chaper Moderation, that is the nice thing with having Chapter Officers "police their own". While not everyone will always agree, it is a good way to "set the tone" on the local level.

Thanks again.

I am not refering to the mods as a whole, mostly just to the 2 that where relieved and any other who would act in that same manner.I realize you guys have a very hard job especialy with the amount of whining thats been going on lately.But some people take on the job just to have a sense of power ,these are the ones I refer to as Nazi's. I'm sorry you thought I was placing you in this catagory it was never my intent



Thats is a hard one to put to words , but in general what I won't tolerate are posts thats only intent is to start crap or piss someone off. I definetly am not saying I could do a better job than you and your team. I'm just saying I will do my best to keep the B.S. posts under control within this chapter. This has been very easy so far as we haven't had any problems yet. We will just deal with everything as it comes up and hopefuly we will be able to do it ourselves, Keep it at a squad level so to speak.


Led

 

[HossHoffer]

I would like to add my thoughts and suggestions as well. Some of the older members it seems are tired of rehashing the same information for the newer people on the board. They have turned to telling people to do searches or berating them for asking dumb questions. Perhaps it is time to expand the site to include a larger and more accessible tech section where those with good experience can reposit their information. Sort of like GoJeep. Maybe we'll have to spend some of the dues on collecting and publishing tech info. Then we will have reason to complain about theose who use the forum but don't join. Right now the info is free just for the asking.

I have been put off by the behavior of some of the people on the forum. Especially the disregard for decorum. I don't like to read curse words or mis-spellings of curse words either. I have had to avoid more and more postings due to the tone of them. Even some of the kidding crosses the line. The Den doesn't seem to be enough for them and their behavior is bleeding off into the other forums. Perhaps we can use a yahoo type group completely away from the forums where anarchy can rule. I have personally been attacked for reminding someone that their personal rant included debasing my friends and family. You never know who you might be talking to. With all the events we have now no one is anonymous anymore. I think we have to ask ourselves if this forum is a good representation not only of but also of each one personally. I do believe that there are those who flaunt the rules. They post attacks disguised as sarcasm. They use coarse language or think themselves clever by using altenative spellings. Lets remember that the club is about the XJs and our enthusiasm for them. I personally have other forums to discuss politics, religion, music, motorcycles and other interests I have. We need to find a way to refocus on XJs. Please don't take my words to the extreme by implying that I want to eliminate any other discussion. Just keep the focus where it belongs. I thought that the recent poll/thread on what 'rating' to make the forum showed that many of the members don't care if they offend or drive others out. Let's remember that we do have the right to set rules and decide who we want to spend time with. I think we can do this without excluding any serious XJ enthusiasts.

 

[planefixer]

This is just a suggestion,but why dont we set up a newbie section kind of like Pirate has for newbs' to ask their elementary(basic) type questions.Again,this is only a SUGGESTION.This might eliminate some of the negative responses-i.e. "search newb" etc.-from some of the members that are tired of answering the same questions over and over.If you were to go into the "newb" section then you already know what kind of questions to expect to read.If you dont want to deal with those type of questions then don't go there-pretty simple.The thing that bothers me about people bashing newbs/beginners is that EVERYBODY was a newb at one point or another and someone was there to help us out with advice or answers to pretty basic questions,so why shouldn't we show the same tact and courtesey that we were shown.Sure,newbs deserve a little ribbing,its called paying your dues,but dont just dismiss them with a simple "do a search" reply.Just my humble opinion. :wave:
Jeff

 

[old_man]

I haunt the tech forum quite a bit and I have been surprised at the civility on those forums. Over the last few months I have also not seen too much ragging on the newbies. I can understand it from the newbies point sometimes. We tend to use a type of verbal shorthand in referring to certain issues and if they don't understand the lingo, then they are wasting their time. On the tech forums, I think major problems are pretty well a non issue. The newbies catch on a lot quicker than some of us old timers.

What might help would be an index page to some of the better threads so the topics can be found easier by the searcher or referred to by the members easier.

 

[Goatman]

What might help would be an index page to some of the better threads so the topics can be found easier by the searcher or referred to by the members easier.

Don't want to get off the topic, but this could be a good idea. There are some threads with really good content that could be referenced in some sort of tech index, maybe with the BS and private joke posts edited out.

 

[mtnranger]

This is a great site and I'm glad we are looking at cleaning up a bit. I stopped reading Pirates for some of the same reasons (flaming newbies, slamming folks for not using search, etc.) great information, just not worth the trouble. It looks like we all would like to see it cleaned up a bit before it gets out of hand so here is my 2 cents.
I'm for the newbie, tech, and FAQ sections. I like the idea of restricting visitors to only the newbie section as far as asking questions but after a few posts maybe hit them with the "join us flag" for futher posting abilities.
I joined knowing what the rules were and feel they should be enforced. I think giving a few time outs is exactly what needs to happen to those of us that get out of hand. Be swift but be consistant in the time-outs. I like the 3 strike rule but add 3 mo. for the 3rd strike and then out for good.
As far as let the individual chapters do their own thing, I like it but we wouldn't be dealing with this today if that were the only answer. I would still like to see the National reserve the right to step in if asked to buy that chapters members.

 

[Yucca-Man]

Restricting the Tech sections only to Members doesn't do much to inspire a desire to join. There are plenty of writeups and sites on the 'Net already with that good info, even quite a bit of it written and maintained by members (and a non-member Aussie)...and all of it is free.

I've been moving recently and have been away from , so wasn't aware that we were having 'issues'. However, I typically restrict my visitation to the OEM Tech, Modified, and CO Forums with occasional forays into Members (not much going on there), Off-Topic (good laughs and way to blow off some steam) as well as the Den (complete waste of time). For Sale and Wanted are nice places to visit, but it seems money is required to play...

 

[Fred]

I think the civility factor is slipping on the main forums. I wince at some of the stuff I see posted. I've been involved in this enterprise for a long time, from back when it was just a free forum for XJ's and then some people decided to get together to wheel. I learned back then that the internet connects people ranging from assholes to freethinkers to strict fundamentalists. At that point, we needed every devotee we could find to expand the enthusiam for XJ's, so BJ MacDonald and eshel worked at getting along and I tried to keep my mouth shut. :lecture:

I do think that people should be able to read the public forums without having to worry about their kids reading it, or feeling insulted because of the language used. I think a language filter is a good thing on those forums. I have no problem with the mods yanking posts that try to skate around the language usage filters.

Fred

 

[Beezil]

BJ MacDonald and eshel worked at getting along

Fred

maybe you were just trying to make some point (i can't understand) but I'll have you know that Eshel and I have NEVER had to "WORK" at getting along.....I was impressed with him the moment I met him, and always look forward to the next time I see him.

perhaps the reason is that I have great respect for his faith COUPLED WITH HIS RESTRAINT AND HIS ABILITY TO KEEP HIS RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IN CHECK, and he is NEVER sanctimonious, preachy, self-congratulatory, nor hypocritical.

Many of you so-called Christians could stand to be "inspired" by this man.

carry on.

good discussion.

 

[OT]

I found the perfect post that puts the whole issue into perspective. It's the third post on the thread. The rest of the thread is just jibber jabber, but quite humorous.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=42795

p.s. Sorry for posting out of my own chapter.

 

[HossHoffer]

maybe you were just trying to make some point (i can't understand) but I'll have you know that Eshel and I have NEVER had to "WORK" at getting along.....I was impressed with him the moment I met him, and always look forward to the next time I see him.

perhaps the reason is that I have great respect for his faith COUPLED WITH HIS RESTRAINT AND HIS ABILITY TO KEEP HIS RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IN CHECK, and he is NEVER sanctimonious, preachy, self-congratulatory, nor hypocritical.

Many of you so-called Christians could stand to be "inspired" by this man.

carry on.

good discussion.

Beezil, I have read many of your posts and appreciate your sense of humor. But what the heck does this post have to do with our discussion? I don't think that his comment was a put down of Eshel, rather an observation of how we work to get along.

I do take exception to being labeled a 'so-called' Christian because I am a Christian, no 'so-called' about it. I didn't know that being Christian was a liability to being in . I've kept my religion off the boards and expect you to respect that rather than attacking those you don't know. There was nothing in this thread about religion and I am confused as to why you would bring it in. Perhaps you could use the example of your good friend and use RESTRAINT IN KEEPING YOUR NON-RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IN CHECK. :laugh3:

p.s. Please note sarcasm at end. I would be happy to discuss anything about my religion on a pm.

 

[Goatman]

I've never said anything about this before, and sort of hate to say it now and get this thread further off topic, but since it probably would not be a good thing to start a seperate thread about it, and this thread is about forum conduct, I'll go ahead.

I am also a Christian, but have never talked about it on these forums. From what I've seen, those who don't like anything to do with Christianity (like Beezil) are the ones who have been making comments about religion, even if only to say that they don't want to see posts about it. I think it's very interesting that all sorts of values can be displayed around here, but if anything relating to religious values get's mentioned the non-believers have a cow. A little humerous to me how easily they are aroused. I see pics and read comments often that I wouldn't do myself, but I don't criticize those who make them. Tolerance.......does it only go one way?

 

[Led]

keep your politics and religion to yourself
Thank you

 

[HossHoffer]

keep your politics and religion to yourself
Thank you

I think that's the point Led. We were keeping it to ourselves. However that doesn't mean we have to sit back and be criticized or put up with snide comments about it especially by those who don't know us. I have rubbed shoulders with you and don't recall ever bringing up either around you or you around me. If that's what you want I can and do respect that. I think what Goatman is saying is that ridicule of religion seems to be OK on the forum but heaven forbid a serious discussion on it, pun intended. If the membership or BOD decided to ban talk on religion then that would have to include negative comments also.

We have places in the forum that are open to any and all discussion and that would have to include, by definition, discussions on politics, religion, boxers, briefs or underwater basket weaving. I think this is a poor place to discuss any of those (well, maybe the underwater basket weaving :laugh3: ) and generally try to keep my focus on XJs and our adventures with them. However if someone wants to have a discussion about those things, do it in the right forum and stay within the forum rules then maybe the onus is on you and me to look the other way.

I don't want to see this turn into another Pirate board where I have to turn off avitars and skip 90% of the postings.

My son and I had a great time at your hangar by the way. I wish we could run down there again as we have front gearing and material for a front bumper, rock rails and long arms. We have the welder here but it's always more fun with a bunch of people to kibbutz.