Yet ANOTHER noise! (Clutch, AX-15 experts?)

[Mike in NJ]

I hate to do this, because "noise" issues are so subjective, but I have been driven crazy for almost a year with a sound that I haven't been able to duplicate on demand, and I am convinced it will turn into something catastrophic.

This sound started within an hour after a bout with a soupy mud (with very fine sand) puddle (door-sill high) on Old Florida Rd last June. Very loud and noticeable on the ride back to Jersey, but then subsided to "occasional" over the next several weeks, moving to every now and then.

Long story that I won't bore you with, but let's just say that (over time), the axles, diffs, brakes, wheels, and driveshafts have been eliminated as a source, and the engine and t-case pretty much as well.

Now, finally, I have been able to "control" it lately (which probably means it's getting ready to "blow"!!!), and I'm virtually certain this is related to the clutch and/or 5 speed.

Now, the hard part - what it SOUNDS like, in print:

Screechy, metallic, rotational sound. Not constant pitch or volume and not directly related to wheel or RPM speed. But is definitely linked to forward motion. Comes and goes, but generally was most obvious after first starting up.

Over the past week or so - I can control it. These days, it ONLY occurs when I'm coasting - any application of throttle and it immediately disappears. Push the clutch pedal in and it stops, let it out and it starts up again. BUT, before you say "clutch", I noticed that if I shift into neutral, it also disappears - which tells me that it could also be related to the forward gears (1-5 makes no difference).

Particulars: '92 AX-15 - 198,000 miles - original clutch - no prior trans issues either.

Any thoughts would certainly be appreciated - preventative maintenance is much more desirable than roadside assistance!

Mike in NJ atriot:

 

[XJTripp]

Let me first say I don't have an AX-15, but have had numerous manual shift vehicles. I have a theory, but the thing about neutral doesn't quite fit unless its just a random chance thing. I once had a 5.0L-5spd. with a self adjust clutch. The self adjust feature failed to work. The clearance between the release bearing and the fingers of the diaphram grew so small that at full release of the clutch, the release bearing occasionally tapped the clutch fingers. Made a kind of tapping metallic ringing sound. Almost inaudible at first. Rest your foot on the clutch and it went away. It was under warranty-told it to the dealer- they said it was fine-wore out the release bearing-I got a new clutch-they paid more attention next time-I hate self adjust. If you have this-you will know because your lost motion free travel of the clutch will be small-maybe you should check the free play against spec.

 

[Ghost]

I would say no to your sugestion Tripp bc the xj does not have a self adjusting clutch. Do you know if you got any water in the tranny? It could be the cluster gear about to go! I hope not but that is the main gear in the tranny that is affeliated with forward motion. Or the input gear!

 

[Scott Mac]

Hey Mike, It's a Jeep, it makes noises,


SURPRISE!!!!! :gee:


Seriously though have you changed the fludi in the tranny since you started noticing the noise?

 

[Ivan]

Mike,

Have you considered the tcase as a possible source of your noises, since it seem to be eminating from that general area? Just a thought.


Back to the tranny issue...I know if I get "lazy hand" and leave my hand on tranny shift nob, I can produce a metallic grindy sound from my tranny... Hand off, it goes away. Same with the tcase too. Try applying "very light" pressure in all directions on both levers as you drive, but not really enough to knock them out of gear or engage the tcase. Maybe you can make the noise go away, or at least isolate the culprit.

Ivan

 

[Mike in NJ]

Thanks Guys.

You given me some more angles to think about.

I have to admit though that since I was convinced it was probably the clutch, I was trying to save the hassle and expense of changing the fluid in the tranny. (Been in a lot deeper stuff with no issues).

Time to get off my A**. :rof:

If that has no effect, then I might as well replace the clutch (after 198K it's probably time anyway - hate to have it fail on the trip West in Oct).

Ivan - I *know* it isn't the t-case.

Scott . . . . . . . no, nevermind. :gag:

Thanks much,

Mike in NJ atriot:

 

[Eagle]

I would say no to your sugestion Tripp bc the xj does not have a self adjusting clutch. Do you know if you got any water in the tranny? It could be the cluster gear about to go! I hope not but that is the main gear in the tranny that is affeliated with forward motion. Or the input gear!

Mine do -- all of them. (Except the two automatics that sneaked in when I wasn't paying attention.)

 

[Ghost]

I think I misunderstood. I was thinking of adjustable clutch linkage!

 

[Eagle]

Mike --

Have you considered that it might be the clutch release bearing? The original clutch release bearing on Old Faithful gave out at 204,000 miles, so you're at about the same threshold. The noise is different -- mine was a more typical "sand in the bearings" kind of growling sound -- but as I think about your description, it could work. Normally, the release bearing should not be turning except when you have your foot on the clutch. But you mentioned that the noise occurs when decelerating -- the realease bearing could possibly slide forward enough to make light contact with the clutch fingers, which might make a screeching kind of noise (maybe).

Once I knew I had to take it apart, I did everything. The labor involved is too much to just do a release bearing, knowing that the clutch is likely near the end of its term. Mine wasn't dead yet -- I think you saw it at the BBQ -- but I nonetheless feel more secure knowing that the whole enchilada has been replaced.

If you can get the sound to recur on deceleration, what happens if you put your foot lightly on the clutch pedal, just enough to take up the free travel and apply slight pressure to the release bearing?

 

[Henrique - RS]

Let me first say I don't have an AX-15, but have had numerous manual shift vehicles. I have a theory, but the thing about neutral doesn't quite fit unless its just a random chance thing. I once had a 5.0L-5spd. with a self adjust clutch. The self adjust feature failed to work. The clearance between the release bearing and the fingers of the diaphram grew so small that at full release of the clutch, the release bearing occasionally tapped the clutch fingers. Made a kind of tapping metallic ringing sound. Almost inaudible at first. Rest your foot on the clutch and it went away. It was under warranty-told it to the dealer- they said it was fine-wore out the release bearing-I got a new clutch-they paid more attention next time-I hate self adjust. If you have this-you will know because your lost motion free travel of the clutch will be small-maybe you should check the free play against spec.

I know XJs doesn't have self-adjusting clutches, but this is the noise my jeep makes.
It makes little noises when my foot is out of the pedal and it's engaged, which I can rear on the road if I pass close to a wall.
If I slightly press the pedal the noise increases, and then ceases by pressing a little more (without disengaging the clutch, of course).

So I believe that the gap between my throwout bearing and the clutch diaphragm fingers is either too small (if the bearing is meant to rest while not pressing the clutch) or too big (if the bearing should be contacting the clutch at all times).

I might add a little spring in my clutch pedal to make it contact with the clutch at all times but I wonder what that would do to the bearing's lifespan.
Is there anything else I can do without taking out my transmission? I won't take it apart just because of that annoying noise.

Vehicle Info:
1998 XJ 4 Door
4.0L Engine
AX 15 Trans
Brand new Luk clutch kit

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[RCP Phx]

Wow, 13yr old thread, but there are to many things that could be causing your problem. The only way to find out what is really going on is to pull the trans. There are a few things you could check ahead of time that might help steer you.

 

[Henrique - RS]

Wow, 13yr old thread, but there are to many things that could be causing your problem. The only way to find out what is really going on is to pull the trans. There are a few things you could check ahead of time that might help steer you.

I wouldn't create a new thread for an old problem

But yeah, I'm hoping to get someone who had the same experience with this damm TOBs...