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XJ wandering - everything seems correct.

B

blistovmhz

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Vancouver, BC
98xj.
* D30 front - 4.56, auto locker, WJ knuckle swap, OTK/OTA 1 tonne steering.
* D44 rear - 4.56, auto locker.
* 6.5" long arm lift
* 35x12.5R15 BFG KM2
* Toe 1/8" in.
* Caster 85.5 degrees on diff cover bolts or 4.5 on inner C's, which should be dead on for my ride height.
* Draglink and track bar angles are about 15 and 17 degrees respectively, and track bar is only about 4" shorter than the draglink.
* Camber looks about stock. I've measured but don't recall the numbers but they were identical on both sides.
* Track bar mount (frame side) is braced to opposite side frame rail.

Jeep wanders at all speeds. Feels distinctly like 1/2" toe out, but I'm definitely toed in. Steering centers quickly. I've tried setting caster all the way from 0 to 9 degrees (90 - 81 degrees at diff cover bolts), and aside from losing my centering when I'm closer to 0/90, nothing else changes. I also get a bit of bump-steer, despite the nearly identical track bar and drag link angles. When I hit something on the highway, I just get ready for the jeep to try to crash into something.

All steering components are brand new and all seem tight. Definitely no play in steering that I can feel, and steering is responsive. Tires are good (and problem exists on two different sets of tires). I may be crazy, but I'm pretty sure I didn't have this issue before installing the front and rear auto lockers.

Definitely pulls toward the downslope. Pulls hard enough that it's a chore to drive more than an hour.

Is it possible this is just how auto-lockers affect streetability, or would this indicate a twist in my axle? Perhaps something gone awry in my steering box? (I did look for a cracked frame rail but couldn't find anything).
 
Last edited:
93gc40 said:
Ball joints and or CA bushings.
Click to expand...

As I said, BJ's and bushings are all tight. Long arms have johnny joints on the frame side and I just checked them the other day and gave them a little tighten. Axle side is rubber bushings, all brand new and all in perfect condition.
Also, none of the mounts are lobed out.
 
Sway bar is tight. I even upgraded to a WJ sway bar (broke the stock one in half). Is connected with discos. They're tight enough that it's a horrible PITA to put them on. Sway bar mounts (axle side) are teraflex.

Also, when I get someone to steer the jeep side to side while I watch everything, I don't see any play anywhere. I've gone as far as to measure any movement with a caliper, and it's all deadly tight. The only thing that has any movement to it is the steering box, but it's so minimal (lateral movement of around 0.01") that I can't imagine it causing this. Besides which, the steering box play hasn't changed since the problem first started, around the time I installed the lockers, which was also about the same time I did the WJ knuckle swap and 1 tonne steering.
It's definitely not something REALLY obvious. I hate to discount the obvious, as there's always the possibility I've overlooked something, but I've gone through the front end with a fine tooth comb and can't find anything wrong.
 
make sure these 2 things are good:
rear leaf bolts are tight as hell and no broken center pins (rear steer)
if you run a stabilizer make sure its not the issue- i literally just threw away a junked stabilizer the other day that was fubar and causing all sorts of weird on road behavior and pulling. trashed it and its better. I also had loose U bolts. I went through the front end a million times.

also make sure that the track bar heims or TREs are good and replace if questionable, same for tie rod and drag link as well.

make sure you don't have a stuck caliper either. Are you sure the LCAs have the axle centered?

when i slapped a front auto locker in years ago the thing actually started to track straighter, not less straight.
 
blondejoncherokee said:
make sure these 2 things are good:
rear leaf bolts are tight as hell and no broken center pins (rear steer)
if you run a stabilizer make sure its not the issue- i literally just threw away a junked stabilizer the other day that was fubar and causing all sorts of weird on road behavior and pulling. trashed it and its better. I also had loose U bolts. I went through the front end a million times.

also make sure that the track bar heims or TREs are good and replace if questionable, same for tie rod and drag link as well.

make sure you don't have a stuck caliper either. Are you sure the LCAs have the axle centered?
Click to expand...

Rear actually might make sense. I'll try tightening up the u-bolts, but I got them on there tight enough that I'm almost worried about stripping the threads. Center pins are definitely good.

I'm not running a stabilizer as I don't want to mask the issue until something breaks :). I may add one once I figure out what's causing the slight bump-steer and wander.
 
Last edited:
I would try increasing the toe in. I beleive I had mine at 1/2" toe in with my lockrite. Now I have it at 1/4" toe in with the ARB.
 
1/8" of toe-in on a 35" tire isn't really "toed in" at all it's .351 degrees.
 
Well, just cause, I tried toe in from 1/8 to 1/16, and it the pull definitely decreased, so I decreased toe again to 0 and less pull still. At 1/4 out, it feels much nicer. Less highway stability, but no pull, and tracks straight (just less sensitive steering).

So wtf? Should I try toe in to something like 1/2" next? I shouldn't have to, and I expect it'll just make the pull stronger, but wtf would cause this pull?
 
Toeing out is great for turn in but can make it feel dart at highway speeds. Makes for tiring road trips - constantly correcting the steering.

I'd try the other way, toe in to ~1/2" or so. Also, you said you had close to 9º of caster? Maybe try that or say 7º again in combination with more toe-in?
 
blistovmhz said:
Well, just cause, I tried toe in from 1/8 to 1/16, and it the pull definitely decreased, so I decreased toe again to 0 and less pull still. At 1/4 out, it feels much nicer. Less highway stability, but no pull, and tracks straight (just less sensitive steering).
Click to expand...

:twak:

blistovmhz said:
So wtf? Should I try toe in to something like 1/2" next? I shouldn't have to, and I expect it'll just make the pull stronger, but wtf would cause this pull?
Click to expand...

Yes, toe it in 1/2" and you should be good. I am at 1/2" in and can do 80 in a srtaight line easily without correction.....
 
Root Moose said:
Toeing out is great for turn in but can make it feel dart at highway speeds. Makes for tiring road trips - constantly correcting the steering.

I'd try the other way, toe in to ~1/2" or so. Also, you said you had close to 9º of caster? Maybe try that or say 7º again in combination with more toe-in?
Click to expand...

No. I've got 4.5 degrees of caster. 4.5 is as far back as my upper CA's will allow, and it should be perfect for my lift. I've tried all the way to 9 degrees but 4.5 is definitely the best I've got thus far, and it's not far enough off stock to cause this sort of wandering, plus I still get very good centering. It's gotta be something else causing the pull. This is why I figured maybe my axle got twisted, and caster isn't the same on both sides?

I suppose I should double check my tie rod again, but I really doubt it's moving. I built this front end to survive the zombie apocalypse.

It's just killing me that all my numbers are perfect, all my angles are perfect, I can't find anything loose, self centering is strong, but it still wants to pull left or right (usually left).
 
First thing to do is make sure your axles are square. Measure your wheel base on both sides and then cross for square.

Caster has nothing to do with your lift height. 5-7 is stock. You should be at the upper end of that with larger tires. Extend your lowers. Then set your toe. If you are experiencing a pull to one side or the other, after all those adjustments, your issue might be tire related.
 
Has anyone said "tire pressure" yet? Sometimes the obvious ones get missed.
 
yossarian19 said:
Has anyone said "tire pressure" yet? Sometimes the obvious ones get missed.
Click to expand...

Good point. I've found that with larger tires people run too much tire pressure.
 
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