Xj mods for handling quality
- Thread starter embs2001
- Start date
XJLI
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Long Island, NY
Dr. Dyno
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Al Ain, UAE
None other than replacing as many rubber bushings as possible with urethane.
yossarian19
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Grass Valley, CA
Yep. Urethane is much firmer than rubber and, as you'd expect, it firms up the ride. Not good for an off-roader but it's a cheap way to improve handling, at some cost to ride quality, on a go-fast car.
Addco makes thicker sway bars for the XJ, too.
Addco makes thicker sway bars for the XJ, too.
Dr. Dyno
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Al Ain, UAE
Urethane bushings by themselves won't firm up the ride but they'll certainly tighten up the handling. Upgrading the front/rear anti-sway bars to a bigger size with urethane bushings to reduce body roll would indeed degrade ride quality slightly by reducing wheel articulation. I only added urethane bushings and kept the original front/rear anti-sway bars.
Another way to improve handling is to add adjustable shocks.
- Location
- WA state
gradon would probably be the best member to ask about this..
Addco swaybars were the first suspension mods that noticeably reduced body roll. I have Ironman4x4fab tubular control arms with poly bushings that don't deflect/bend as much as the stock stamped U's. Daystar poly in the leaves. Bilstein shocks are great. I'm cued on a 6-week backup from Flex-form for lighter and stiffer composite leaves(320#/in). Lower profile tires will reduce roll and sharpen up steering: I dd on 225/50-16 Yokohama AD08s and auto-x on 285/30-18 Hoosiers.
O-Gauge Steamer
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
The entire purpose behind low profile tires was to reduce the the tire deflection to as close to zero as can be had. The larger diameter wheels were created so as to get the overall rolling diameter up to an acceptable level as well as to allow fitment of larger brakes. Something you will want to investigate as the stock brakes will not, IMO, be up to the task.
The fact that both were adopted for "Bling" has nothing to do with the functionality of the setup. The Supercar versions of Sport Cars have used low profile tires for decades. At least today the tires are somewhat affordable.
I will agree about the Addco bars. A good substitute for the stock sway bars. Stiffer is better for cornering. Just understand that the general level of comfort is going to go out of the window once it is setup for handling.
I would look into lowering the Jeep to improve the CG as well. Easier to do with a 2wd XJ as the front beam can be sectioned and dropped to clear the oil pan.
In the past, I used Koni adjustable shocks with great success. My last vehicle that was setup for handling was a 1968 Triumph Spitfire that I had modified with a 2.4L inline 6 making just under 250 ponies. Handled as if it was on rails, incredibly bad road ride... But then it was a purpose built car after all... Put it together in 1973...
The fact that both were adopted for "Bling" has nothing to do with the functionality of the setup. The Supercar versions of Sport Cars have used low profile tires for decades. At least today the tires are somewhat affordable.
I will agree about the Addco bars. A good substitute for the stock sway bars. Stiffer is better for cornering. Just understand that the general level of comfort is going to go out of the window once it is setup for handling.
I would look into lowering the Jeep to improve the CG as well. Easier to do with a 2wd XJ as the front beam can be sectioned and dropped to clear the oil pan.
In the past, I used Koni adjustable shocks with great success. My last vehicle that was setup for handling was a 1968 Triumph Spitfire that I had modified with a 2.4L inline 6 making just under 250 ponies. Handled as if it was on rails, incredibly bad road ride... But then it was a purpose built car after all... Put it together in 1973...
Talyn
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Radford, Communistwealth of Virginia
1) Addco sway bars, they made a noticeable improvement in every vehicle I have installed them in.. Especially the WJ. I forgot how well it handled with the Addcos that I'm planning on putting a pair in my ZJ.
2) Tubular control arms. The stock ones are just weak. Replacing the control arms made a very distinct change in steering.
3) Tie rod. Same thing as with the control arms. I went with the simple bolt in Iron Rock Offroad bar. Its beefy.
Aside from my slightly too stiff rear leaves the setup is still very comfortable.
If I were to do it again I would probably only add 1" of lift and smaller tires. But this isn't an autocross vehicle.
2) Tubular control arms. The stock ones are just weak. Replacing the control arms made a very distinct change in steering.
3) Tie rod. Same thing as with the control arms. I went with the simple bolt in Iron Rock Offroad bar. Its beefy.
Aside from my slightly too stiff rear leaves the setup is still very comfortable.
If I were to do it again I would probably only add 1" of lift and smaller tires. But this isn't an autocross vehicle.
souske
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The land of competition
Wj steering
Having the caster properly dialed in.made all the difference on my lifted xj, like night and day difference.
Not.sure how.crucial this is on a.lowered rig
Having the caster properly dialed in.made all the difference on my lifted xj, like night and day difference.
Not.sure how.crucial this is on a.lowered rig
thanks guys... great info.
Good point about caster...
Why do you recommend wj steering? Is cross over a improvement over inverted? I thought if either was set up correct and had no worn components, they will work about the same.
Has any one messed around with changing drag link and track bar geometry? can you not affect roll center by doing so?
Good point about caster...
Why do you recommend wj steering? Is cross over a improvement over inverted? I thought if either was set up correct and had no worn components, they will work about the same.
Has any one messed around with changing drag link and track bar geometry? can you not affect roll center by doing so?
IXNAYXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Wherever the next race is.
You need to add camber to the front end. This can be achieved by notching the front axle, or with 2-degree offset balljoints (what I did). Makes a huge impact on steering feel and front tire wear/contact patch. Speaking of contact patch, the affect of good tires can't be over stated. We run 255/50R17 Falken Azenis 615Ks, but when I can afford another set (need at least 6 for racing) of wider wheels (currently 17x8) I'll go to 275s.
I'm still running stock sway bars, bushings, control arms, etc and it handles great, so YMMV. There's only a couple inches of travel before it hits the bumps so I've never bothered with fine tuning the suspension.
-Matt
I'm still running stock sway bars, bushings, control arms, etc and it handles great, so YMMV. There's only a couple inches of travel before it hits the bumps so I've never bothered with fine tuning the suspension.
-Matt
O-Gauge Steamer
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
The stock XJ steering works and that is about all that can be said about it. The WJ steering is not only more robust, it flat out works better.
Camber. Yes indeed you will need to address this. If you have a chance, catch the next Formula 1 race and look at how much camber those cars run. The purpose is to get a better bite on the road when cornering. A tire that is standing straight up will want to slip on the road. On a two wheel drive XJ there is another option to cutting the axle and that is bending the axle.
Now, before anybody calls me crazy (I am, but that is not the point here...) bending the axle is exactly how camber was set back in the days of solid front axles. Finding a shop that still has the hydraulic jacks may be another story. I had to use my local Ford Dealer to setup my 1952 F1 truck as they were the only ones in town (at the time) that still had the jacks tucked away in a dark corner...
Caster. IMO, I would look into a set of adjustable control arms to control the caster. Not only will this give the best possible method of adjustment but... As long as all four are adjustable, the axle can be set perpendicular to the chassis. Out of the box, there is no method to properly position the axle, you just have to trust the control arm mounts.
Speaking of mounts, you might consider reinforcing the axle end just to be sure of them. Autocross is far and away from what the designers had in mind when the XJ was on the drawing board...
Camber. Yes indeed you will need to address this. If you have a chance, catch the next Formula 1 race and look at how much camber those cars run. The purpose is to get a better bite on the road when cornering. A tire that is standing straight up will want to slip on the road. On a two wheel drive XJ there is another option to cutting the axle and that is bending the axle.
Now, before anybody calls me crazy (I am, but that is not the point here...) bending the axle is exactly how camber was set back in the days of solid front axles. Finding a shop that still has the hydraulic jacks may be another story. I had to use my local Ford Dealer to setup my 1952 F1 truck as they were the only ones in town (at the time) that still had the jacks tucked away in a dark corner...
Caster. IMO, I would look into a set of adjustable control arms to control the caster. Not only will this give the best possible method of adjustment but... As long as all four are adjustable, the axle can be set perpendicular to the chassis. Out of the box, there is no method to properly position the axle, you just have to trust the control arm mounts.
Speaking of mounts, you might consider reinforcing the axle end just to be sure of them. Autocross is far and away from what the designers had in mind when the XJ was on the drawing board...
Talyn
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Radford, Communistwealth of Virginia
Actually there is a stock adjustment for caster. Look at the rear LCA mounts. The hole for the bolt is oval and there is an insert in the pocket that moves with studs on the rear side. Loosen the nuts, slide on some spacers, tighten nuts.
O-Gauge Steamer
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
There is indeed! But, IMO, the adjustable arms are a better solution. Last time I had my Heep's steering adjusted (pre long arm suspension...) the shop told me that there were no adjustments. Every shop I called in town told me the very same thing. When I pointed out, to each of them, that there were shims to be replaced, they admitted that they did not have the requisite parts. Every shop the same story. Finally going the the Dealership proved to be the only answer. And they had to preorder a shim pack as they did not stock them...
Which is why, when the front suspension was replaced, I made sure all four links were adjustable...
Which is why, when the front suspension was replaced, I made sure all four links were adjustable...
Talyn
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Radford, Communistwealth of Virginia
Yes, they are.. and stronger than the stock arms.
Most places are just lazy. But I also have never found a source for them in the after market. Prior to having adjustable control arms I made my own shims.
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
Yeah, the only way to adjust caster from the factory is the little adjustment shoes and shims.
Up here in the rust belt, the adjustment procedure goes like so:
* procure or fabricate required thickness shims
* loosen LCA bolt
* break the stud on the adjustment shoe while attempting to loosen the nut
* admit defeat and retighten LCA bolt before the shims fall out.
I suppose one could buy new adjustment shoes and a stack of shims, but... the stock control arms suck, you probably need new bushings by now, and aftermarket tubular arms and upgraded bushings fix the problem another way.
Up here in the rust belt, the adjustment procedure goes like so:
* procure or fabricate required thickness shims
* loosen LCA bolt
* break the stud on the adjustment shoe while attempting to loosen the nut
* admit defeat and retighten LCA bolt before the shims fall out.
I suppose one could buy new adjustment shoes and a stack of shims, but... the stock control arms suck, you probably need new bushings by now, and aftermarket tubular arms and upgraded bushings fix the problem another way.
yossarian19
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Grass Valley, CA
Also possible - remove the shoe, cut the broken bolts flush, drill it out, tack weld a new bolt in it's place, use washers / shims / make something out of a cutting board (going on 7 years later, no problem with my plastic) / whatever.
I like a solid control arm vs a threaded adjustable simply because it's one less threaded connection / jam nut to think about but in practical terms, either one works great.
I like a solid control arm vs a threaded adjustable simply because it's one less threaded connection / jam nut to think about but in practical terms, either one works great.
