Width restrictions

[crazymoose1990]

Yeah that makes sence. I am not building my rig stricktly for the PNW. It also has other advantages like being more stable, being able to go to a junk yard for shafts. It may come down to me not running these trails or worst yet cutting down my axles 4 inches however I really do not want to do this. I have freinds that love running full width they say there Jeep is much more stable on the roads

 

[crazymoose1990]

Hell see thats what I am looking for Dustin so these are tree farm thats why they have width restrictions. So it would be more of an issue of the body being to big. Yeah I will need to do some more reseach. Hey Dustin I would be interested in helping with trail maintence I do not know how much time I will have with school but I would like to volunteer my time for a worthy cause.

 

[crazymoose1990]

Dont get me wrong, there are alot of things that you stated that I agree with. There are alot of trails that do not have width restrictions, but there are SOME trails and ORV parks that do. If you are over those restrictions, just dont wheel there. Like you stated, we dont make the rules but we have to follow them. As far as your last comment, yes we do have a voice, There is the Pistons Wild group that is very active in the offroad community a long with Wheelers of Washington and Pacific Northwest Four Wheel Drive association. I know personally I would like to see all of us in the PNW get more involved in these communities (including myself).

This sport is always going to be a uphill battle, the more we all get involved as a voice for our sport/hobby the better chance we have to keep trails or have new trails that meet MOST offroad vehicles dimensions.


Do you know how wide you are going to be once you have your your rig back together?

I totaly agree. I cannot understand why we as a community seem lay down and let our trails be slowly taken away. We do have a voice and we need to speak up and do it now. I tend to error on the side of conservation my GF of 13 years is a tree hugger and my mom worked for the Nebraska Game and Parks commision for 15 years so I know all about conservation. I do get tired of people telling me that the sport that I love is bad for they enviroment every thing people do and have done is bad for they environment there are diffrent degrees of course. If you look at how many parks in the United States are offroad parks you will realise that its a very small percentage and that number gets small every year and that in itself is worse for they enviroment because as trails close the ones that are still open are going to be over burdend. I will also say our mentality of let someone else speak for me is going to be the demise of offroading all togeher. I would say in the next 15 to 20 years offroading will be a memory. I hope to god that I am wrong but we are losing 1" at a time.

My track width will probably be around 84" my axles are 76" add 4 inches to each side for rims and tires

 

[crazymoose1990]

Sorry but i agree, If you want to wheel in these area's, then build a rig FOR the area.. The whole purpose of management in these area's is to stop people from Changing the Trail to make it work for a certain vehicle. If everything was easy, then it takes away from the challenge.. making hogs back suitable for a suburban, totally defeats the purpose of the trail..

and i just rambled.. alot

I kind of agree and disagree with you on this Scott. I like to go to play in the snow and ice and with a wider track width my Jeep will be much more stable on these surfaces. I also think that if its challenging for a narrow wheel base rig like a Cherokee then it will be much more challenging with full widths as I will not be following in any one else track width. I also feel that building a rig for a certain terrain is kind of pointless when the rig will hopefully be used in multiple applications. Look at Rubicon to my knowlege there are not width restrictions and I bet that trail is plenty challenging enough with narrow axles and probably more challenging with a wider wheel base.

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

I kind of agree and disagree with you on this Scott. I like to go to play in the snow and ice and with a wider track width my Jeep will be much more stable on these surfaces. I also think that if its challenging for a narrow wheel base rig like a Cherokee then it will be much more challenging with full widths as I will not be following in any one else track width. I also feel that building a rig for a certain terrain is kind of pointless when the rig will hopefully be used in multiple applications. Look at Rubicon to my knowlege there are not width restrictions and I bet that trail is plenty challenging enough with narrow axles and probably more challenging with a wider wheel base.

You have yet to actually go on Hogs back and the upper section of FB5..

If they open it up to everyone.. it wont be a challenge to anyone..

 

[crazymoose1990]

Okay I will take you word for it. It sounds like I wont probably go up Hogs back any way

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

the width restrictions are not THAT bad.. i fit with my boggers, i am sure some full size rigs still fit..

 

[crazymoose1990]

I totaly agree. I cannot understand why we as a community seem lay down and let our trails be slowly taken away. We do have a voice and we need to speak up and do it now. I tend to error on the side of conservation my GF of 13 years is a tree hugger and my mom worked for the Nebraska Game and Parks commision for 15 years so I know all about conservation. I do get tired of people telling me that the sport that I love is bad for they enviroment every thing people do and have done is bad for they environment there are diffrent degrees of course. If you look at how many parks in the United States are offroad parks you will realise that its a very small percentage and that number gets small every year and that in itself is worse for they enviroment because as trails close the ones that are still open are going to be over burdend. I will also say our mentality of let someone else speak for me is going to be the demise of offroading all togeher. I would say in the next 15 to 20 years offroading will be a memory. I hope to god that I am wrong but we are losing 1" at a time.


Sorry about this type o I meant 75" track width

 

[AwesomeXJ]

You have yet to actually go on Hogs back and the upper section of FB5..

If they open it up to everyone.. it wont be a challenge to anyone..

I went up hogs back in the snow. It really didn't seem that hard

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

the trail is not hard at all, the first part (what you did) can be hairy in inclement weather.. but the second part is where the filter is.. its not hard at all, it take time and precision steering in spots.. widen it for a fullsize rig, and it looses its tricky characteristics for us smaller vehicles.. its hard to please both full size and mid sized rigs with a trail like hogs back..

 

[Motornoggin]

Dustin pretty much nailed it.
Hogsback is not that hard, but it is tight and twisty and I would be surprised if a full width rig fit. Same with the upper section of FB5. There are a couple of spots where I have had to back up to make the turn, and my XJ just a bit over stock width, and stock length. Fortunately, you don't have to go through that section, and can go straight up the hill instead.
Now, as far as building trails for everyone, they do that. You just choose which ones you are going to build your rig for. You can build a rig to run them all, and many people do. Mine won't, but I am not asking them to change anything because of it.
A few years ago, someone complained to a fill-in at ODF that Can Opener was too hard. In a matter of days, it was basically turned into a gravel road. This caused a huge uproar and ODF changed their policies because of it.

 

[TORX]

So it would be more of an issue of the body being to big. Yeah I will need to do some more reseach. Hey Dustin I would be interested in helping with trail maintence I do not know how much time I will have with school but I would like to volunteer my time for a worthy cause.

In my opinion "width restrictions" are made in reference to the body. Even though it's measured tire to tire. I think someone will do far more damage to a trail trying to drag their full size body through, than their full width axles. Nothing against full size rigs, I can respect them. However, we are in the PNW, the truth is this is not very full size friendly terrain.

I do feel a lot of it comes down to the driver though. Personally, I know of several people running over 80" tire to tire, and they can maneuver through the trails just as easy as I can.

In other areas, width restrictions originated with the original Forest Plan when the ORV park was built. Take Evans Creek for example the original plan designated trails for widths up to 72"(?). This was back 40+ years ago, so small track width Jeeps were the common rig. Advance 40 years and our vehicles have outgrown that original measurement even though they can safely maneuver through the trails. This is where the "updated" measurement of 80" comes into play. We could have asked for more, but there's a pretty good chance a new enviro survey would need to be done, which could end up hurting us more in the long run, so a line had to be drawn somewhere.

I'll let you know on volunteer opportunities. My schedule is packed solid up until May, so after that we'll definitely be doing some work on our trail at TSF.

The TSF ones I think are to protect you. Hogsback is literally not wide enough and you aren't going to want to try to back out or turn around
The trail clings to the hillside and is barely wide enough for a cherokee

That explains why Rod managed to go off the trail twice in the same night.

A few years ago, someone complained to a fill-in at ODF that Can Opener was too hard. In a matter of days, it was basically turned into a gravel road. This caused a huge uproar and ODF changed their policies because of it.

I remember that.

 

[crazymoose1990]

the trail is not hard at all, the first part (what you did) can be hairy in inclement weather.. but the second part is where the filter is.. its not hard at all, it take time and precision steering in spots.. widen it for a fullsize rig, and it looses its tricky characteristics for us smaller vehicles.. its hard to please both full size and mid sized rigs with a trail like hogs back..

I think you guys are missing my point I'm not asking for anyone to change any thing for my Jeep I just want to make sure that there are still going to be trails that I can run that are challenging for my Jeep. I think its great that there are trails that are challenging for narrow width Jeeps but I also think that we need to have trails that are challenging for full sized rigs they pay OHV fees also. I never said that the lower section of fire break 5 was hard. I havent been on any trail up here yet that I though was extreamly difficult. I think if you drive with your foot hard on the skinny pedal you can get body damage and trail damage on any trail.

Thats all Im saying I think my Jeep will still fit within the required track width so probably not an issue any way.

 

[mojojojo]

That explains why Rod managed to go off the trail twice in the same night.

That looks nothing like my rig... You can't prove anything

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

Thats all Im saying I think my Jeep will still fit within the required track width so probably not an issue any way.

haha how wide is your rig my friend.. the picture of mine shows 15x10 wheels, with 2.5" back spacing.. and 33x14x15 boggers..

the only filter i didnt do so well on was Crushers.. :skull2:

 

[crazymoose1990]

Its a 67" wms to wms axle plus 4" on each side for tire and rim so I figure 75" hopefully.
Why are you laughing at me Scott thats not nice. It sounds like the width from what people are saying is between 75" and 80" at most trails. I did however want to run some wider tires but I will be sticking with a 15x8" rim

 

[98CherokeeSport]

i am 80" wide and fit through everything that dustin took me through over at TSF.

we can talk and argue this point until the cows come home. but the truth is you need to step up and take more action. i am part of the PNW4WDA and we had to fight tooth and nail just to get the 80" restriction at evans. they wanted it at about 76". its too late now to save some places. the sad truth is that the environmentalists outnumber us ethical wheelers about 100 to 1. the other down side is that most of our ORV parks are located in national parks where they have the majority of the say on what goes on in there park. i built mine with the knowledge that the width was going to be restricted at 80". im also going to stay at 37" tires because of the rumor going around that they will be passing a tire heighth restriction also. you all need to get into a jeep club or some 4x4 organization to find out what is really going on. if you arent then you wont hear any of these issues until its too late and you wont have any voice at all.

yes it sucks that trails are being restricted. but we cant change that instantly. we have to try harder to prove that we take care of our trails and become more active in the 4x4 politics

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

Its a 67" wms to wms axle plus 4" on each side for tire and rim so I figure 75" hopefully.
Why are you laughing at me Scott thats not nice. It sounds like the width from what people are saying is between 75" and 80" at most trails. I did however want to run some wider tires but I will be sticking with a 15x8" rim

You can go 15x10s with 35x15.50s and make it everywhere. Ask Redjeep3

I'm not making fun of you.. Just trying to understand the issue at hand..

 

[crazymoose1990]

i am 80" wide and fit through everything that dustin took me through over at TSF.

we can talk and argue this point until the cows come home. but the truth is you need to step up and take more action. i am part of the PNW4WDA and we had to fight tooth and nail just to get the 80" restriction at evans. they wanted it at about 76". its too late now to save some places. the sad truth is that the environmentalists outnumber us ethical wheelers about 100 to 1. the other down side is that most of our ORV parks are located in national parks where they have the majority of the say on what goes on in there park. i built mine with the knowledge that the width was going to be restricted at 80". im also going to stay at 37" tires because of the rumor going around that they will be passing a tire heighth restriction also. you all need to get into a jeep club or some 4x4 organization to find out what is really going on. if you arent then you wont hear any of these issues until its too late and you wont have any voice at all.

yes it sucks that trails are being restricted. but we cant change that instantly. we have to try harder to prove that we take care of our trails and become more active in the 4x4 politics

I agree 100 percent. Oregon is one of the only states left with out some crazy lift restriction.

 

[crazymoose1990]

You can go 15x10s with 35x15.50s and make it everywhere. Ask Redjeep3

I'm not making fun of you.. Just trying to understand the issue at hand..

Its is sounding like there isnt an issue at all. I think my Jeep will fit most of the trails. :roll: