Which 0331 replacement head?

[Spenser]

Typical issue of cracked 0331 head between cylinder 3 and 4 on a 2001 XJ sport with 164k miles. I can run it with the oil cap off and watch the coolant slowly bead out of the crack, so there is no doubt about it. Also have low oil pressure and obviously slowly losing coolant, but still have clean oil, very little visible sludge under valve cover, and the typical knock sound is pretty mild (many folks online seem to believe these engines just have that light knocking sound regardless). Also still has a lot of get-up-and-go at all speeds/RPMs and generally runs very well. That said, pretty damn over being a Jeep owner at this point. I have always loved the Cherokee, but not the constant work. It is just a normal daily driver for me. I don't drive hard or do any sort of offroading.

Was going to order a Clearwater head, and was on the site just a few days ago, but now their site has expired, and I was lead to their BBB & google reviews.............. not sure how on earth I missed it before, but Clearwater has way too many horribly negative reviews/warnings for me to feel comfortable with them anymore.

I have found Titan Engines offering a NEW 0331 casting that is also stronger than the factory head for a similar price, and also the usual rebuilt TUPY heads on ebay. My question is simply which replacement head is my best bet? I am not a car guy, but have learned way more information than I care to know over the years, due to having car issues that needed to be dealt with, but I am absolutely no professional or expert. I am usually great at figuring things out, and have a couple mechanic friends who are familiar with the 4.0 to help me out.

Is the Titan head a safe bet? Do I find a TUPY reman that sounds promising? Do I have my friend in Reno go to the pullapart/junkyards and find a TUPY? I am located in Alaska and have to ship this to a freight forwarder in Seattle for an additional $90 shipping charge, so keep that in mind. Clearwater said they would waive the core return due to my location/shipping costs... I don't see anything about a core with Titan, which is nice, and this ebay listing (below) says they do not require a core.

www.ebay.com/itm/TUPY-JEEP-4-0-LITER-TUPY-REBUILT-CYLINDER-HEAD-0331-/252383801779

here she blows

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/spenserak2/album4/Jeep1.jpg

and here was my first vehicle years ago, and '88 XJ... gunmetal grey with gold spoke rims, leather, and 270k when I bought it. I miss that thing.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/spenserak2/album4/cherokee88.jpg

 

[notamos]

I have a Clearwater head and would recommend it. Nice casting.

 

[md21722]

I put a TUPY on mine. No complaints.

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

Greets.., I'm way north of you. That said, is your friend in Reno familiar with engine work? Almost anyone can remove/install an engine head, but to do it without warping, (especially seating head to block), requires basic correct knowledge. Suppose he does, and retrieves a head from such a messy ordeal as per a J/Y. Have him then take the head to a shop that works on heads in order to send forth a head correct in all specified manners; i.e., non warped, cleaned out internally/externally, valve seats cleaned/freshened, with new valves correctly angled to them. I am mostly ignorant about Juneau, but can't imagine it's a hot spot within the motor world.

Once the job is done, have it sent to; Your Name, 3216 70th Ave. East, Fife, Wa. 98424. For directions to the facility only, your vendor, (or a friend), may call 253-926-0624 which is more-or-less a dispatch operator function. It is a Fed-Ex Yard where one in Alaska can have most anything sent through the yard to arrive to you via a barge. Barge is fairly quick, i.e., about a week, or less to you one way.

I have had many XJ parts, and add-on's sent that way. The COST was something like .33 cents per pound; June of 2014. For example(s); Warn Winch shipped free from Kansas State to Washington State to Fife, then the aforementioned price per pound to my location. ARB Kangaroo Bull Bar Bumper, coil, and leaf springs, shocks etc., shipped from various 4-Wheel Parts, Inc., to 4-W.P. Inc. in Tacoma, Wa. St., to Fife with a 16 dollar shipping, and handling charge, i.e., they have a satellite store just a few miles away from Fife. I think the 4.0 iron head weighs around 60 pounds, i.e., x .40= cost for a head trip of $24.00 on a barge trip from Fife to my location to the end of the Kenai Penn. Since you asked for us to keep the $90 price in mind, I've just saved you some change, 'eh?

A possible aluminum head is just about half the weight of iron. Don't know if anyone has had good results with them. Beyond this OEM section, perhaps the modified section of this site has some member input to help you with that consideration. Companies that make them are big solid names in the automotive industry, Edelbrock, Hesco, etc., and are worthy of looking into. I would imagine the cost of such is way higher than the implied cost reduction direction of your post.

I would imagine the barge price per pound now is probably under .40 cents a pound. You can decide to pay way more for that by any other transport method. With quick work on the phone, or in person, check around to those in the fishing industry, or other industry houses to find out if they use the Fed-Ex service through FiFe. If they do, they will often allow anyone off of the street to piggy-back an item with their regular weekly/monthly shipments for that rather reasonable slight shipping cost you must pay them. I cannot vouch for how much Fed-Ex will charge you individually, other than to say it would probably be twice, thrice, or more times over the process I have described above. Your choice.

In this post of yours, (the second paragraph), it is stated that Clearwater has expired their web site, and that the BBB has negative points, etc., and then, (in your fourth paragraph), you mention the option of Clearwater not charging you a core exchange, blah, blah. Why bother.., cyl-heads make good anchors, counter weights, etc., lol. Anyway, why deal with a company that is not holding it's own in the business world? Like playing Russian Roulette?

I cannot help you any further as per the TUPY, or other heads applicable to your year XJ. Others here are actual experts, and I hope they will chime in in order to get you on track to obtain a 'sweet' 'plug-and-play' replacement for your model year fit requirements in order to reduce any further minor hassle modifications if you get the wrong head. If I were to buy a XJ with the 0331 head, I'd want to have a better prepped replacement casting sitting on the shelf at the very least.

In the meantime, consider going to your NAPA Store, and get the best head/block/gasket sealant that they sell, (ASK), and use that in the intermediate time period.., or let your XJ rest, and get a bicycle, and rain gear. Have fun.

 

[Spenser]

Thank you for your long reply! and greetings, fellow Alaskan...

my friend in Reno is familiar enough with the things you mentioned regarding a reman/junkyard head, but I wouldn't say he is an "expert" overall. he has a built XJ in the family that they rally around off-road down there, and I know he has worked on them, but don't know any further details. he had just offered a short while ago to check his local spots for a used head, if that's the route I wanted to take.

part of the reason I want to get a NEW head is (I assume) it is more trustworthy as far as being clean and not warped, but I also know that even new heads occasionally come out of the box needing a bit of machine work.

the Jeep is resting for now.. I was borrowing a vehicle for the few weeks before I left on my current trip to Oregon, where I'll be for a month, and in theory the new head will arrive in Juneau just before I return at the very end of this month. I have the gasket set/bolts/etc already and am going to have a mechanic friend help me.. plus, he's got all the good tools that I don't have yet, hah. he just did a head gasket job on our friend's '96 toyota 6cyl, which had a surprisingly similar engine layout, and he has worked on these 4.0s as well.

ultimately just hoping for the best. if I can get even 50k more out of the Jeep and then sell it, I'll be happy enough. I'm sure you know what vehicle pricing and wear/tear is like in Alaska.

 

[Spenser]

update - replaced the head over the first weekend after arriving home, so about three weeks ago. had the help of a good friend for a lot of it. got lucky and everything went smooth - only one bolt gave us any trouble, and that was one of the manifold studs out of the old head. it was time consuming, but relatively easy, considering the job. Jeep runs like normal with the rebuilt TUPY (it ran great before too, just had the crack) and everything is normal. nice not to have to worry about the leak anymore. the cylinder walls still had factory crosshatching for the most part, and overall the top half of the engine looked to be in really good shape. definitely some sludge, but really not so bad for 164k. took a lot of pictures but I'm sure you've all seen inside the 4.0 before. stoked to have the Jeep back!

I'm not much for mods or anything like that, but there are a couple other normal things I'd like to do eventually.. fresh injectors and new leaf springs for the most part. she's got a saggy butt.

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

Greets..; good to read everything worked out almost flawlessly, 'cept for that one stud.

Curious to where you got your rebuilt TUPY head from? How it was shipped?

Never been to Juneau, but my thoughts are that there are not too many miles of any roads to drive upon. Too.., my thinking has it that there are plenty of off-roading available.., true? Do you 4X4 somewhat? If you are simply DD the vehicle just get some reasonable replacement leaf springs. If you carry a lot of weight in the cargo area, and/or haul trailer/boat set-ups, then consider a more premium set of leafs. I chose Old Man Emu, (OME), purchased in Wa. St., and shipped by barge. Cost around 300 bucks for leafs, and 'U' bolts, and maybe around 50 bucks for barge freight cost. I say maybe as I ordered coils, shocks, and a bunch of other stuff too.., some noted in my signature zone.

CHeck out ARBUSA.com; http://www.arbusa.com/uploads/PDF/accessorizeYourRig/jeepCherokeeXJ.pdf

If you are interested there is a way to avoid paying Wa. St. TAX for any goods purchased by an Alaskan by looking at their government site for a waiver form. Try 'googling' for it; i.e., Washington State Tax Exemption Form. It will be a 'pdf' form for you to copy, and sign, and send by whatever method available to you to whatever purchase point you choose for anything.

I used the "4Wheel Parts" store out of Tacoma, as it is near the "Fed Ex Yard" near, or in Fife Wa. Tele; (253)476-1600.

I discussed the ARB, and OME parts over the phone several times with both parties, and absolutely received all the correct replacement parts spending the time jotting down notes. The '4WP' place was great, as one of the salesclerks even went out to his XJ to measure some part to insure that it would fit, or properly enhance my vehicle over stock. As I recall ARB does not sell retail, hence the store mentioned was one outlet amongst many across the States.

Oh, by buying better parts your XJ will have better resale value especially if you can document what you have done, i.e., save your receipts in order to itemize the upgrades to a private buyer. New car dealer trade-in.., not so much at all as they universally just look at the general condition, but mostly the odometer. You will not get much based on yours, although in reality it is worth way more. -------That's all I've got.-------:us:

 

[Spenser]

I got it on eBay through a shop in Chicago (windy city engineering?), which had a perfect rating, and I took the chance. it was very clean and all the resurfacing/etc work was done, and came with new springs/valves. I had it shipped to AML in Seattle through my old work account - it was $475 to get there, and $50 on the barge, which was about the same as I was looking at paying for one of the clearwater/etc heads after shipping. the TUPY I got was from a WJ, so I assume it's off an '02 or so? interestingly, the head that I pulled off the XJ (non-tupy) also had a WJ stamp. I assume the stock head would have been stamped XJ, no? or did they stamp WJ and use them on other models........? I'm guessing the former, in which case it means the head I removed was not original.......

I don't do any offroading, we just deal with harsh weather and winter conditions half the year like everywhere in AK. there are some places to do it in Juneau, but far less than you might think - since we're on the coast, almost everywhere you are, one side is rocky beaches to the ocean, and the other side is thick northwest forest up a mountain. I didn't buy a Jeep for that purpose, I was just in the market for a new car and need AWD or 4WD for winter, saw the Cherokee for sale, and it ended up being what I purchased. I've always liked them - it's the one and only vehicle whose looks I've ever had a "thing" for. better MPG would be nice, but compared to the '01 Outback I was driving, it comes out to just one more tank per month on average.... I can offset that cost by not eating out a couple times, or skipping a few beers

if it's not a huge cost increase, I'd probably go for a slightly better leaf spring set... why not? I have read that an OEM style replacement can raise the back by 2-3", and also brings the front up about 1" as a result. I don't need an actual lift for any reason, but a little more clearance via new springs sounds nice!

I'm planning on spending this winter in Bend, OR where there are A LOT more options for offroading. I probably still won't do much, but may give it a go once in a while just for kicks. if I end up keeping this Jeep a while and find myself wanting to 4x4 a bit, I will probably do lockers and a couple of the basic upgrades at some point.

 

[Alaskan89XJ]

Thanks for your updates.

Curious Minds might want to know; so I 'Googled' to check out the BBB reviews for the, (non-accredited), Windy City Engineering, (in business since 1974), which has earned an A+ rating, Figure they did you good for your XJ replacement head as their track history is exceptional.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
POI; Napa has gone downhill in some areas, according to all of my area mechanics. We have CarQuest, and now O'Reilly's in Homer. CQ now seems to carry better parts than either the other two. CQ carries Standard brand electrical parts which is like playing true Russian Roulette versus the other two with more than one round in the cylinder, i.e., godless commie slave labor chinese built crap to rip off our hard earned American Dollar.

My area is mostly summer mud, (thawed tundra), and snow over frozen winter tundra, lol. Beaches are ok, but not worth the effort as it's an ordeal to pressure wash each, and every time after an outing. Guys get their rigs stuck, and the tides take 'em out. Earth quakes, and roadway collapses, major pot holes, due to various reasons, i.e., skimppy asphalt constructions, flooding etc., forced me to consider, and act on building towards a better articulating suspension. Seems not so much a problem in Juneau.

However for a better than stock replacement you will need to get fresh front coils to get the measurements you have described. (remember, and it's easy to get it wrong, lol.., OEM is from the factory, and OME is an Australian after market parts company). I figured that since the Ausland has a zillion miles of washboard roads, the OME company has proven designed parts with proper metallurgy to meet the challenges of our Alaskan non-paved roads as well. Quality rubber bushings are a must too.

Have fun in Bend.

 

[Spenser]

funny you mention tides.... my brother had a stock TJ for a little while, and it got stuck in a particularly muddy cove - they weren't able to get it out before it was flooded.

thanks for the heads up on front coils if I choose a "better" leaf spring pack - the post I read was probably an upgrade situation. ultimately an OEM replacement is all I need, so we'll see what I decide to do when I get there. I will be hauling my 18ft Lund this summer, but it's only 1,100lbs between hull, outboard, and trailer, with a very light tongue weight (easily lifted with one hand). current leaf springs should be fine for now, I just know they need to be replaced like every XJ still on originals, hah.

I loved Legos as a kid, and in some ways, owning a Jeep gives me a similar feeling.

 

[Jeepguy03]

Love the pic of the 88 XJ. My dad had an '87 Limited, same color. I learned to drive on it.

 

[Spenser]

IMO, it's one of the nicest looking things I've ever owned, and I think my current favorite XJ is the ghost grey. something about that colorway....

 

[garr]

Is that sludge buildup on the old Head the result of the Coolant getting up there?

 

[Spenser]

feel free to correct me if any of my thinking is off - some of it has got to be from coolant, but I'm not sure how long the crack was there. a lot of the photos I've seen of Jeeps with sludge from coolant leaks have the lighter colored milky/orange crap, but mine was all dark like the color of used oil, and was not clogging anything, just had deposits sitting in certain areas. had some milky residue on top of the valve cover only, but I've been told that could be from condensation in the PCV system?

based on some other evidence, I think the vehicle was in a mild front end collision in the last year or so (bumper is slightly bent and driver's side trim piece is cracked, grill is pushed back a hair on same side) which may have damaged the old radiator and other aging cooling parts and lead it to overheat, because the previous owner replaced the radiator/tstat/hoses/water pump, and there was evidence of stopleak in the coolant.. I flushed all that old stuff when I replaced the head of course.. at any rate, pretty sure the thing overheated during the 4,500 miles he owned it (his dad owns the local Jeep dealership, and he was a mechanic there in the past), or maybe it happened before he picked it up. it may have been a trade-in from a customer after they had the collision/overheat and got rid of it, but not sure.. didn't get any of that history from him even with all the other info he gave me, and haven't bothered to check carfax or wherever. he also mentioned having to fix the blower motor (?) and getting it to pump hot air again.

I'm really no mechanic or car guy, but what I've read online leads me to believe it's all related. either way, it runs really well, there's no more leak, I'm running rotella T6 5w40 and hopefully will clean some more crap out, and oil pressure is still just within spec.... barely, but it fits the "10lb per 1000rpm" guideline I've seen all over the place (it was exactly the same before with 5w30 synthetic). I didn't get into the lower half of the engine so don't know the conditions of the bearings/etc, but everything on the top half looked great. like I said, mostly still had factory crosshatching in the cylinders and no lip at the top, etc. the sludge didn't seem terrible for its mileage, but I'm no pro on deciphering what was up with that. I'm sure the bearings/etc are worn a bit at least due to age, thus lower oil pressure, but again, who knows.

just gonna keep chugging along and take issues on as they come. it's a very solid rig right now, though, so I'm not too worried.

you can see the slight front end damage here. I took this picture after painting the headlight hoods black last week.... again, Jeeps are kinda like adult legos and I like that. going to freshen up the rest of the trim some time soon.

 

[Spenser]

forgot to mention, there was only a very light ticking sound before the new head, which was only there during idle and tended to faded in and out, and was even quieter or gone after being warm for a bit. it got a little more noticeable after we replaced the head and I switched to the 5w40 T6. I've read lots of people got a little more lifter noise after bumping up to a 40wt, but also folks who had theirs get more quiet..... and also have found people saying sometimes lifter noise changes a bit after a fresh oil change period... or a different filter. had a Mopar on there when I bought it and I used Wix (I forget, are those the same?). the PO had relatively fresh oil in there.

it's also possible that during cleaning I got a tiny bit of debris down where the lifters are (I tried to be as clean as possible and used a skinny hose on a shop vac to suck everything up afterward), but again, who knows. it's a Jeep 4.0, right? besides the "it's a tractor motor" line, one of my other favorites is "That tick is installed at the factory. It engages some time after the original warranty runs out. It's designed to maintain itself until you trade/sell/junk the Jeep" (from Cherokee forum)

 

[md21722]

I have been running 5w-40, 10w-40, or 15w-40 synthetic in my 01 XJ for the past 12 years. For the most recent change I mixed 5w-30 and 15w-40 and never really noticed the lifter tick was gone until I heard it once for a few seconds and realized I hadn't heard that in a while.

After you pull the head its a good idea to change the oil a few times with very short drain intervals. Some will do it the first time they bring it up to temperature. I usually do it after 100 or 200 miles once or twice. There is always crap and usually antifreeze in the oil after this work. If you cut open the filter you'll see some of the crap.

 

[Spenser]

thanks for the tips - I had more or less gathered that doing a couple short OCIs is a good idea after this type of work. I think I'm at about 500 miles so far - you think I should go ahead and change it soon? a few of the forums/etc I read suggested somewhere around 1,000 miles, but I'm open to whatever. also - I have the little kit from blackstone labs that I haven't used yet. is it a better idea to wait until I've done a couple short OCIs before sending in a sample so that leftovers from the pre-head swap are gone, thus giving me a more accurate "current" representation of the oil, or should I use oil from one of these short runs before clearing out the old gunk?

was also thinking about flushing the cooling system again... I couldn't quite get all the old stuff out, so now that it's all mixed with new stuff, a second flush will pull out most of what remained, yeah? it had pre-mixed green in there when I bought it, and I put in g05/water after the head swap. there is still a slightly green hue to it, and still little gold flakes of stop leak (?) around the lip under the filler cap. thoughts?

 

[md21722]

I usually change around 200 miles, no more than 500 with cheaper oil before going back to regular oil change intervals. I would save your oil analysis kit unless you want to perform some scientific study of how dirty the oil was right after the head work. I'm sure it will indicate elevated levels of antifreeze and its trace elements. As far as the antifreeze is concerned, you will never get the last drop of the old stuff out with one drain and refill. You can only dilute what you can't get out which is why you have the green color. It will take a few times. I believe G05 and green are compatible in smaller amounts so there is less concern than if you were switching to PG type, etc. Change it once or twice more or until you're satisfied.

 

[Spenser]

roger that. might as well do a change this week - thanks!

 

[Spenser]

changed oil yesterday evening. I was probably at 6-700 miles at that point after the new head. the oil had remnants of coolant swirling in it, but was mostly pretty clean looking, aside from the darker color it picked up in that time period.

I put more T6 in, and already had the larger Wix filter at home, so used that. I think it's the 51515, whereas I had the regular-sized 51085 before. runs the same of course, but it's possible the light lifter noise is a touch more noticeable at idle? hard to say. I have read that sometimes the noise can increase temporarily after an oil change? I'm not worried, just thinking out loud.

on another note, I think I'm going to flush the heater core soon, as it only blows mildly warm air.. hopefully that's all it is. those two hoses are the only ones I didn't directly flush during the head job.

bonus note - I had planned to do this a couple days ago, but while waiting just a bit after driving the Jeep, I skated around to kill time. started bombing a hill I hadn't done in years, and ended up eating shit... the whole left side of my body took hits from head to toe, but the most obvious injury was my dislocated ring finger, which was severely bent at the larger of the two mid-joints, angled over 100 degrees, laying across my middle/index fingers. popped it back in myself, and currently have it taped up & taking care. woops! getting the oil filter off with a busted hand and sub-par grip with the other was not ideal.