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Whats up with Tom Woods???

TDeaton13

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Maryland
So I called and spoke with someone at Tom Woods about building me a driveshaft for my XJ which I plan on using the R.E. Hack & Tack with. But he told me that he refuses to build me a driveshaft because I'm using the H&T?!?! I know that this is not the best option but some of us don't have money just growing on trees! At least I'm not just trying to get away with a t-case drop. SO since I have been insulted and refused service by Tom Woods is there anywhere that will actually build me a driveshaft???

Thanks for listening!
 
High Angle Driveline. Talk to Dirk at DPG Offroad. They took care of me pretty good. Would rather have a HAD, than a Wood, especially after your experience.

HTH
 
I remember reading that on his site somewhere as well, but don't recall the exact reason. I'm sure it had something to do with the flange being an incomplete solution, but can't seem to find the page I read earlier.

Undoubtedly there are local shops that can make a driveshaft for you or you can order through RE themselves but be aware that I have had some issues with their driveshaft outsourcer in the past. http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/sye.html
 
Tom won't do it do to problems in the past with the hack n tap throwing the balance off, rather than argue back and forth with customers about it he just does not do it anymore, can't blame him
 
Fullsizexj said:
Tom won't do it do to problems in the past with the hack n tap throwing the balance off, rather than argue back and forth with customers about it he just does not do it anymore, can't blame him


Exactly, he was eating too many DSs so he would rather just not deal with the H&Ts.

Instead of being insulted, think about it for a while. If one of the leading driveshaft makers has a problem dealing with H&Ts do you really want a H&T on your jeep? I wouldn't.

hinkley
 
Urban Redneck said:
Would rather have a HAD, than a Wood,

Why?

I have both and they are exactly the same. Same quality made out of the same Neapco or Spicer parts and I got the same excellent customer service from both companies. The only down side to the High Angle was it was about $30 more expensive since I had to pay CA sales tax.
 
The problem with the H&T is that folks with various skill levels take on this mod and most times it works great, but sometimes it doesn't due to installer error.

In the past, Tom has spent a considerable amount of time trying to troubleshoot driveline problems for folks that have used the H&T method. Allocating resources (time=money) to solve a problem that may be caused by a component that you did not supply or support is counter-productive for a business.

Don't take it personally and be so easily insulted. I've known Tom for 15+ years and his customer service is the best I've seen.
 
Fullsizexj said:
Tom won't do it do to problems in the past with the hack n tap throwing the balance off, rather than argue back and forth with customers about it he just does not do it anymore, can't blame him

I understand what you are saying, good point. But what I don't understand is if Tom Woods has so many problems with H&T kits why don't the other manufactuers have the same amount of problems. I mean if they are such a hassle for them why wouldn't the other companies refuse to make driveshafts for them as well. Just seems like Tommy wants to sell me his complete package so he can make a few more bucks.
 
Tom does not use an angle grinder to cut his and a hand drill to drill them out for a tap, He machines them and knows the tollerances will be right
 
The problem with H-n-Taps is that the skill of the operator will vary so much. 95% of the time it's okay but the 5% will drive you crazy. On one hand you have guys like C-ROK and Beezil who have machine shops and the skills to use them and then there are guys like me who are working on their driveways (the hackers). I knew my limitations so I went with the AA kit.
The drive shaft business is competitive and has low profit margins. Therefore you can't afford many returns. Especially ones that are not your fault. Tom Wood does a lot of shafts every year but I sure don't see him getting rich! Did you hear that he was also going to be opening up a shop in Moab in 2005? We sure could have used him at the Fall Fling as my buddy dropped his DS on Tip Over Challenge and had it welded by a local 4x4 shop. Two days later it seperated at the weld again. Not enough heat in the weld to penatrate the DS metal and get a good bond. That happened wayout on Golden Spike.
I've had nothing but great service from TW. The one time I did have a problem he VERY promptly took care of it in a manner I was impressed with.
 
TDeaton13 said:
So I called and spoke with someone at Tom Woods about building me a driveshaft for my XJ which I plan on using the R.E. Hack & Tack with. But he told me that he refuses to build me a driveshaft because I'm using the H&T?!?! I know that this is not the best option but some of us don't have money just growing on trees! At least I'm not just trying to get away with a t-case drop. SO since I have been insulted and refused service by Tom Woods is there anywhere that will actually build me a driveshaft???

Thanks for listening!
Honestly, get over yourself.

There was a very long discussion about this close to a year ago.

If you're that bent about it, go with HAD, or go with Mountain Driveline. You can their prices out on their website.

Fergie
 
TDeaton13 said:
I understand what you are saying, good point. But what I don't understand is if Tom Woods has so many problems with H&T kits why don't the other manufactuers have the same amount of problems. I mean if they are such a hassle for them why wouldn't the other companies refuse to make driveshafts for them as well. Just seems like Tommy wants to sell me his complete package so he can make a few more bucks.

:rolleyes:

It could be because Tom sells so many more driveshafts than anyone else, and because he's so helpful that he has hours and hours of time spent on helping to resolve issues that end up being the fault of the hack and tap.

Listen.....if you will. The difference in cost between a hack and tap, a good SYE on the 28 spline shaft, and a HD SYE with a 32 spline is so small that in my opinion it's senseless to get anything other than the 32 spline SYE. You will be so much happier in the long run, and a couple of years from now the extra $150 you spent for the HD one will be totally insignificant.

I know. I saved the $100 and got a 28 spline SYE. A few years later I decided to get a rear D60 and didn't want the t-case output shaft to be the weak link so I got a HD 32 spline SYE........yeah, I really saved money, didn't I. Plus the time.....

Just get the good one......you'll never regret it. A broken output shaft is just about the worst trail break you can have, the only fix is to go get another t-case and install it before you can drive off the trail.
 
I talked to the guys at Tom Woods about the H&T thing a while back. I have some emails I saved, but they are my Yahoo account, and I can't get on Yahoo with gov computers... anyhow... the big problem was the large ammount of unsupported weight causes alot of vibration problems and short T Case life. The double cardan isn't all that light, and your bearing is the stocker which is pretty far back from the H&T flange.
 
nate said:
I talked to the guys at Tom Woods about the H&T thing a while back. I have some emails I saved, but they are my Yahoo account, and I can't get on Yahoo with gov computers... anyhow... the big problem was the large ammount of unsupported weight causes alot of vibration problems and short T Case life. The double cardan isn't all that light, and your bearing is the stocker which is pretty far back from the H&T flange.

That's an interesting point. I had the Currie SYE originally, and they use a double wide bearing for the output shaft.
 
Tom Wood has this letter on file and available upon request. It clarifies his position on the H&T SYE setups.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for considering me for your drive shaft needs. Through the years I

have experienced a little bit of a "bad rap" over my refusal to knowingly

build a drive shaft intended to run in conjunction with the Rubicon Express

slip yoke eliminator. Some people seem to think that I have some sort of

personal problem with the company or their people. That, I will assure you

is not the case. Personally I have the highest regard for them and almost

all of their products.

In addition to liability concerns, my rationales are for what I perceive to

be sound mechanical reasons. I will outline them for you here.


1. The method of cutting off, drilling and tapping the output shaft of the

transfer case while still in the vehicle, is something that I would neither

recommend nor attempt myself. I have seen many shafts ruined in this

endeavor.


2. After the shaft has been shortened, you will still have a substantial

area of unsupported shaft beyond the rear output bearing. This is not

entirely a result of Rubicon Express's design, but I would also consider

this to be a problem on a factory original shaft. The result of this is

known as "overhung load." The drive shaft which would install against the

modified shaft will weigh about 15 pounds while the factory original drive

shaft weighs about 9 pounds. This in itself will nearly double the overhung

load. We must also consider that under a load, the drive shaft will have a

tendency to want to straighten out. This will also increase the overhung

load.


3. You should also understand that in order for the new output flange to

install on the output shaft, there must be some minor internal clearance

between the splined bore of the flange and the splines on the shaft. Because

of this clearance, you will then have the potential for minor independent

movement between the flange and the shaft. This independent movement, over

time (sometimes a very short time) will wear down the splines on the output

shaft and enlarge the splines in the bore of the flange. When this happens,

it will, because of the looseness between the parts, allow the flange to run

eccentric. This will cause a vibration problem with the vehicle. Most

people, upon discovering this problem, will re-tighten the retaining bolt.

Unless the output shaft has been cut off perfectly square, this will cause

the face of the flange to be less than perfectly perpendicular to the

centerline of the output shaft. This will usually cause even a more severe

vibration problem. When people have a vibration problem and a drive shaft

that I have built, their problem becomes my problem. I see this problem as

avoidable and prefer to do so.

With any of the other conversion kits available, there will be a more

substantial shortening of the output shaft, reducing the overhung load.

Furthermore on any of the other conversions, the rear output flange or yoke

is solidly "sandwiched" between the retaining nut or washer and the rear

output bearing. This secure attachment will prevent the wearing of the

splines on the mating parts. Thus, preventing the problem as outlined above.

May I suggest you consider installing one of the other conversions available

for your vehicle? The initial cost differential, I believe to be modest. But

the mechanical quality differences are substantial. Ultimately you should

find the longevity, performance and strength gains to be well worth the

minimal cost and time spent up front. After all "doing the job right the

first time" is generally the most cost effective.





Tom Wood

Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts Inc.

Toll Free US 1-877-497-4238

Worldwide 801-737-0757

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
So why not run an RE driveshaft? I ran an RE rear shaft with a hack n tap for 3 years with full width axles, 38's and a stroker motor...broke a lot of stuff, but never the hack n tap , or the drive shaft. I bought a spare drive shaft from them when completing my last project after having the original one lengthend, never have had a chance to try it out after numerous trips. Heck, the original one had gouges in it in a spiral pattern from where it had supported the entire rear weight of my XJ...and never broke, bent , or creased.., the simple solution is buy an RE driveshaft.....just my .02
 
TDeaton13 said:
So I called and spoke with someone at Tom Woods about building me a driveshaft for my XJ which I plan on using the R.E. Hack & Tack with. But he told me that he refuses to build me a driveshaft because I'm using the H&T?!?! I know that this is not the best option but some of us don't have money just growing on trees! At least I'm not just trying to get away with a t-case drop. SO since I have been insulted and refused service by Tom Woods is there anywhere that will actually build me a driveshaft???

Thanks for listening!
RE has the driveshafts.Not quite as pretty, but built just the same.
Wayne
 
bought my RE lift, hack-n-tap and driveshaft at the same time. have had no problems and I too have the spiral marks from rocks on the DS with no vibes.

Later,
Rough
 
Tommy is good, very good.

Let's look at the prospect of a hack 'n tap.

You've had beers and so has your bro..then you break out the 5" angle grinder. What happens? You f'up.

Three months later you still have driveline vibe and you are blaming it on Tom, even though it is your fault.

Open the transfer case, don't hack.

Tom rocks.
 
OK...so as not to beat a dead horse. I'm looking for a non-hack SYE for a 242. Does anyone make one? All I've seen for the 242 is hack-n-taps, although I've seen nice HD shaft kits for the 231.
 
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