What would YOU like to see us do as a Chapter?

[in4aride]

That took longer than expected.

 

[freerider15]

It has never been the case that wheeling drove traffic to the chapter. It may have been a factor in the early 2000 Colorado fests attendance, it did not effect membership in the chapter. You can disagree all you want, but there is no one who knows the history of this chapter as well as I do. Don't bother quibbling, I've been involved longer than anyone else on this board. See the Yahoo list for reference.

That said, I'm not saying that we shouldn't use wheeling to help drive traffic. It is a fact that there are many choices out there for finding a group that is wheeling on the weekend. And let's not forget, that technically, it it's a wheeling trip, BOD members are supposed to be present, if not lead. Will our new directors fit that bill under the guidelines? Facebook groups, so far, have no liability, just like the old Yahoo list groups. I wheeled far more with the list group, than I have with .

So, yeah, use wheeling as an attractant, but if you seriously think it's the only answer to increasing involvement, well, I agree with you, the chapter only has a few years left.

Fred, I'm not trying to start a pissing match of "who knows better because they've been here longer".

In reality, I could give a flying HOOT how long anyone has been here. I've been with for over 10 years, but whoop-de-do. Sorry if that "ruffles" feathers, but I could care less at this point.

What I care about, is getting new members in.

If getting out on the trails and getting out there isn't what gets people in, I'd love to hear what you think would?

Why do I say what I do? Because I've gotten it from the horses mouth, a lot. I've gone up to plenty of XJ's, some extremely well built.

Want to know what the response is from them when I mention ?

It's usually:
1.) I'd prefer to join a group that actually gets out.
2.) I looked, but it seems like it's not very active.
3.) Those guys seem to have a chip on their shoulder and need to get over themselves.
4.) They went wheeling with us one time however long back, and were treated like shit for being a newb.

Usually #1 and #2 are what I hear more than most.

So what I come back to, is if these ideas and thoughts are so off base...why has the Colorado Chapter essentially faded into nothing? Why has the "same" old consistently failed? Why has membership pretty directly correlated with the amount we've been out wheeling? Every year that we've slowly stopped doing regular wheeling trips, I (and quite a few others), have noticed the activity here come to a halt.

Why would someone join a road racing forum, only to never road race?
Why would someone join a HAM operator forum, when no one there much of uses their radio?
Why would I join a Jeep forum, when they don't really much use their Jeeps?

What I keep seeing, hearing (and very well confirming with other members on here) is that essentially we hate change. If that isn't obvious, I don't know what is.

The fact that there's even ANY push back on this, says it all.

Want to try and work on getting more people involved in the Chapter? No...you'll get beat down about it.

I swear at times it really feels like some here would prefer to not see anyone new come in...

 

[freerider15]

See Bold..

I will sort of side with Fred on this as well. isn't a 4-wheeling XJ club. It's an overall enthusiast club for the XJ/MJ. This means we owe it to the overall theme of the club to not get single-focused on 'wheeling events. I still sell parts to folks that found me through who have stock daily driver XJ's and their only need from is the technical info to maintain their XJ..... they have ZERO interest in modifying or 'wheeling their XJ.

Troy, I can agree on this in that is not ONLY for wheelers. But, it is the majority like it or not. I'm not sure why that last part matters though, because if they have ZERO interest in modifying or wheeling their XJ, that does not make them an enthusiast correct?

However, without question, the largest demographic of XJ enthusiasts are the ones that use them for 'wheeling or are building a mall crawler that poses as a 'wheeling machine because they like the look. So, for that reason, yes - 'wheeling events are likely to attract the most interest.

Yes, wheeling is what bring 90% of people to this board. With that, it makes sense to go after the largest demographic

We do need to show the value in the enthusiasm of the XJ/MJ in any regard and support those folks that are outside the larger demographic. I myself don't currently represent the 'wheeling demographic - I don't have a trail rig at all at this time. I am an overall enthusiast though, having a stock MJ, a road racing MJ build, and a "custom" MJ dually build all in progress. For these reasons, it's been awesome to do "show-n-shine" events like the ones held at Cody's tattoo shop. It's something all enthusiasts can attend.

When I say "wheeling", that doesn't mean it has to be Carnage, Chinaman's etc. When I say wheeling, that can be anything from Carnage to the dirt backroads in Summit County, to the high elevation trails in Ouray. We barely do either.

I think the "show-n-shines" are great. They allow everyone to get together, talk Jeeps, shoot the sh*t, and enjoy the day.

We still only had one of those this last year.

A great example of overall enthusiast support is the Rig of the Month. The categories that Flores puts together are nice and broad covering stock, racing, wheeling, and general use and enjoyment of the XJ/MJ's. Could be cool if we could get some increased forum participation and membership built up in the chapter to do our own chapter Rig of the Month thing.

Gawd that was chatty........ lol.

I'm not sure if you two seem to take me wrong.

As I said above, when I say "wheeling" I don't mean rock-crawling.

I mean anything and everything between the random scenic, nearly paved, dirt roads around our state...to trails like Indy and Carnage.

I remember when our trip reports were plentiful, pictures were abundant, and funnily enough...attendance and interest was great.

And, as I said before...

Why would you join a Jeep forum that talks about Jeeps, but doesn't much use them?

You can get all the tech info you need without being a blip on the radar, and just come and go.

However, it's hard to not want to be more...when your out with a group regularly.

 

[in4aride]

What I keep seeing, hearing (and very well confirming with other members on here) is that essentially we hate change. If that isn't obvious, I don't know what is.

The fact that there's even ANY push back on this, says it all.

Want to try and work on getting more people involved in the Chapter? No...you'll get beat down about it.

I swear at times it really feels like some here would prefer to not see anyone new come in...

This is why I said, longer than expected. This seems to be the case, and why I tended to quarrel with BOD.
Yes, Fred and Troy, y'all have been around since the wheel, and you have great insight to the history of the jeep as well as the club.
However.
When it comes to change. It's always a bad idea. It's always your way or no way, or you won't participate in the decision of what to do.

Yeah. We know this isn't a wheeling club. It was a club that wheels. Now it's a keyboard club. If Justin and Flores or anyone else seems to have ideas you don't like, don't shoot them down with the negative, but counter them with different options.
We can't keep talking about problems, at some point we have to discuss solutions. Or time frames to try things and see if they work. We're talking about a lot of free things that only cost time. (I get it. My time is valuable too). But let us handle it. Let the guys, bod or not, volunteer to take on the social media. What's the worst that happens? It doesn't work? Then we are no worse off.

But really. The last several posts, IMHO that no one asked for, is part of what's wrong with BOD. Members saying they refuse to take part in a growth or change. Saying the discussion is futile, I'm right you're wrong. Immediate dismissal of ideas vs hearing them out/ giving a test run.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Troy, I can agree on this in that is not ONLY for wheelers. But, it is the majority like it or not. I'm not sure why that last part matters though, because if they have ZERO interest in modifying or wheeling their XJ, that does not make them an enthusiast correct?

Quite the contrary...... the mere fact that they want to keep their XJ around and running/looking good the way it came from the factory and use it for all it's utilitarian goodness for as long as they can....... makes them every bit an enthusiast. DJ is a HUGE example of this. Look at his threads about his new-to-him WJ and the Audi he's had for several years now. Neither highly modified, he insists on quality maintenance and parts and appreciates those vehicles for what they were "born" as. The awesome part about DJ's enthusiasm? It's multi-faceted. The guy is an XJ/MJ Wikipedia for damn near all of it - stock AND modified. :thumbup:

 

[YELLAHEEP]

When it comes to change. It's always a bad idea. It's always your way or no way, or you won't participate in the decision of what to do.

That's not a fair or even remotely true statement. Just because I voice my opinion about something? I've never said "Nope, I don't like it and it's not gonna happen here." or the like. I'm all for someone taking on a new idea...... but don't expect me to like it and run with it. That person needs to carry their own torch if I or anyone else isn't behind it. Go make it work!

Yeah. We know this isn't a wheeling club. It was a club that wheels. Now it's a keyboard club. If Justin and Flores or anyone else seems to have ideas you don't like, don't shoot them down with the negative, but counter them with different options.

Sometimes those different options are the option to stay status quo or do nothing because we don't have any ideas on how to change or improve. Sorry, but again, different strokes for different folks. It's how the world goes round.


We can't keep talking about problems, at some point we have to discuss solutions. Or time frames to try things and see if they work. We're talking about a lot of free things that only cost time. (I get it. My time is valuable too). But let us handle it. Let the guys, bod or not, volunteer to take on the social media. What's the worst that happens? It doesn't work? Then we are no worse off.

Therein lies the true issue. No one steps up to "handle it". Historically some have tried, but don't stick around to see it through. I can steadfastly say though, no one, myself included, has ever been a barrier to their efforts. Some instances, they've had to try it alone because they didn't get the buy-in from others. Wanna take on Social Media for the Chapter's benefit? DO IT! I'll support it.

But really. The last several posts, IMHO that no one asked for, is part of what's wrong with BOD. Members saying they refuse to take part in a growth or change. Saying the discussion is futile, I'm right you're wrong. Immediate dismissal of ideas vs hearing them out/ giving a test run.

I'd love to see examples of those. If we're talking about the chapter getting more into the Facebook aspect, I certainly have never said "Nope, absolutely not." on behalf of the Chapter. I've certainly said that it's not my thing and actually is a dangerous thing for my line of work. So, all that can and should be taken from that is that I cannot take on that new idea - it's not in my wheel house, nor will it be. I've never spoken out that it shouldn't be something the Chapter tries or takes on. Go for it! I just can't and won't be the one leading the charge. Looking over the recent thread..... I've not seen anyone else in the discussion shoot any of that idea down.

Justin, Flores...... if you guys see value in running with ANY of the ideas proposed by yourselves or others so far, you won't get resistance from me. I'll support the efforts without issue so long as the right people to take it on are tasked with it. :thumbup:

This is all AWESOME discussion BTW......

 

[in4aride]

I wasn't talkin just you yella. But earlier in this thread the statement of 'I know so don't try arguing' was made. Not by you. But still.
I agree, very good context here, best this place has seen in a while.

 

[Alpine Jim]

Here is my long-winded perspective as a new participant to the forum and XJs in general. I don’t know much or any of the history of the group so take my opinion for what it is worth. I haven’t yet met any of you except online - Cottontail, Diesel XJ, and Hypoid have been more than helpful in answering my questions as I work through my baby lift and get used to XJs in general.
I am not new to Jeeps. I have had a few but not a lot. My first vehicle was a Willys 3B, then a 57CJ, and a 55CJ. And my last one was a ’72 Commando (mild build, 304, 727 auto, spring-over with 33s). But I have driven quite a few more over the years, from other Willys and Jeepsters, to CJs and TJs, XJs and Grands.

Speaking of the Commando, the JCCA has a strong online forum, and Jeepsters and Commandos were only made for what, less than 10 years or so, and haven’t been made for over 40 years. They have a large yearly gathering and only scattered regional runs. Point being, there is a strong following around those vehicles even now, and I see XJs going the same way. BlackNBlue said this: “at some point I think the scope would need to be broader past XJ's or this place will fold.” But if the JCCA is any indication I am not sure that is true.

My lifestyle does not revolve around fourwheeling. I have too many other things going. I only use my XJ off road a few times per year to access hiking and backcountry activities like hiking, climbing and skiing, and for elk hunting. I would like to change that over the next few years, but who knows? Now that my three sons are out of the house, I am actually having more free time and am more likely to participate in an organized run, than I have been over the last 15-20 years. There have been comments here to the effect that as people get older they will participate less, but I am trending the other way.

So for me, organized runs sound fantastic and if we were to have scheduled runs along the northern Front Range or central mountains I would participate in a few but probably will not become a mainstay for me. But the presence of a knowledgeable, helpful, friendly forum such as I have found here, is awesome and I likely will participate more online than I will off road, much as I would like to be off road more.

The OP said this: “I think our biggest problem is the lack of actually wheeling. Why join a forum, when your Chapter has a hard time remembering what wheeling IS?”Well, my answer to that question is, my life doesn’t revolve around fourwheeling, but I definitely want to be part of the forum, for the information and enthusiast aspect – seeing who is doing what to their rigs, and with their rigs, etc etc..

I have a local club (TrailRidge Runners) who do a lot of trail runs and trail maintenance events. If I was to actually join a club it would more likely be them. No offense to any of you. It’s just that I know some of them already and would be more likely to join a club where the members are more local but the vehicle model is mixed, than a club where the make/model was primary and membership locale was secondary. Not saying everyone should think that way.

Finally, and this may sound bad, so shame on me I guess, but It wasn’t until I read this thread and started digging that I found out there was actually a membership thingy where you paid dues. I guess I thought being on the forum made you a ‘member’. And even then I had to look pretty hard to find the membership info. I didn't even find it in any of the stickys here in the Colorado section. or maybe I am blind - entirely likely. So maybe making the membership/$$ request more visible would be helpful?


That was long-winded and I am not sure how much I have really said, but thanks for listening.

By the way, who would be interested in a Meet n Greet up in Longmont soon?

 

[old_man]

By the way, who would be interested in a Meet n Greet up in Longmont soon?

I'm having a M&G in Loveland Saturday.

 

[BlacknBlue_XJ]

BlackNBlue said this: [/SIZE][/FONT]“at some point I think the scope would need to be broader past XJ's or this place will fold.” But if the JCCA is any indication I am not sure that is true.

I think you grabbed a quote from someone else. My suggestion was a two-pronged approach to growth that addressed the enthusiast by bettering the quality of the available information on the forum, while increasing the amount of activities in general to bolster participation.

 

[Alpine Jim]

BnB: Sorry about that. I should have double-checked.

OldMan - Thanks for pointing that out. Unfortunately I am already tied up for this weekend.

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Jeebus......... this sounds a lot like the democratic debate......:gee:

Bottom line is if you want new members you need to get out there and get them! We need events/trail runs and current members need to get the word out! Sadly there has been little to no nothing going on.....

Swag....... get it, sell it and display it for all to see!

This club is great for web wheelers but I like to actually wheel ....... that is in-between repairs.......

The main problem is a lack of interest, money and time! Most members lack time while others lack money and then there is the combination there of....

I have noticed a lack of interest in the forums as well. I myself am not in here much these days but my love of the sport and the Jeep keeps me dropping in.

Events + Swag = Members :wave:

 

[md21722]

I am not sure how much it correlates to driving membership, but it might be nice to break wheeling into two categories: rock crawling and those that just want to go to the mountains in their Jeeps. At the present time I have two "daily drivers" neither of which are built for rock crawling. A couple of times now Hypoid Mike has organized Kingston Peak runs with the Forest Service. The last one I was out of town on vacation for and was unable to attend and I think the one before my Jeep was down for maintenance. Just bad timing for me. The local Jeep dealership has events for new JK owners & invited me with my XJ. They went to China Wall. Reasonably close to Colorado Springs. Not saying that's where to go, just an idea. Maybe boring for the experienced crowd. It's a club so its about meeting new people and doing things, possibly for a range of skills. I am new to metal working so I have been posting in the Tools & Garage forum. The tech GTG's like one flores had would be nice too. Something you can do on a Saturday. Seeing it in person from someone more experienced helps me and the interaction is usually better than watching a YouTube video. I do both. One day I will have a welder & plasma cutter. And another Jeep to do the more technically challenging stuff. But I'm not there yet. I will be.

From around 2000-2007 I was involved in Volkswagen diesels, old Mercedes diesels, and Dodge/Cummins diesels. For our VW GTG's it started as one or two people just doing something, to timing belt GTG's, to yearly events. In one GTG we did timing belts, and when we were all done with timing belts, the host installed a Quaiff LSD. These types of events showing the tech stuff are good for the community. Some will go back and feel confident they can do it themselves after seeing it but were too intimidated to do it without seeing it first.

The key is that the people involved have the space, time, and willingness to have these types of outings. I personally don't. I live in an apartment and can't really host an event. I could maybe do something for one or two. Just as some have volunteered their time and assistance, Flores and Hypoid (Mike) come to mind. The day of Tom's meet and greet I stopped at Hypoid (Mike's) place and met Greg who was doing his ball joints and u-joints. It was a good time.

 

[freerider15]

I am not sure how much it correlates to driving membership, but it might be nice to break wheeling into two categories: rock crawling and those that just want to go to the mountains in their Jeeps. At the present time I have two "daily drivers" neither of which are built for rock crawling. A couple of times now Hypoid Mike has organized Kingston Peak runs with the Forest Service. The last one I was out of town on vacation for and was unable to attend and I think the one before my Jeep was down for maintenance. Just bad timing for me. The local Jeep dealership has events for new JK owners & invited me with my XJ. They went to China Wall. Reasonably close to Colorado Springs. Not saying that's where to go, just an idea. Maybe boring for the experienced crowd. It's a club so its about meeting new people and doing things, possibly for a range of skills. I am new to metal working so I have been posting in the Tools & Garage forum. The tech GTG's like one flores had would be nice too. Something you can do on a Saturday. Seeing it in person from someone more experienced helps me and the interaction is usually better than watching a YouTube video. I do both. One day I will have a welder & plasma cutter. And another Jeep to do the more technically challenging stuff. But I'm not there yet. I will be.

From around 2000-2007 I was involved in Volkswagen diesels, old Mercedes diesels, and Dodge/Cummins diesels. For our VW GTG's it started as one or two people just doing something, to timing belt GTG's, to yearly events. In one GTG we did timing belts, and when we were all done with timing belts, the host installed a Quaiff LSD. These types of events showing the tech stuff are good for the community. Some will go back and feel confident they can do it themselves after seeing it but were too intimidated to do it without seeing it first.

The key is that the people involved have the space, time, and willingness to have these types of outings. I personally don't. I live in an apartment and can't really host an event. I could maybe do something for one or two. Just as some have volunteered their time and assistance, Flores and Hypoid (Mike) come to mind. The day of Tom's meet and greet I stopped at Hypoid (Mike's) place and met Greg who was doing his ball joints and u-joints. It was a good time.

Yep, I think we can and should have more of these "Meet Up and Work on Your Junk" days. This allows assistance, and it's just nice sometimes to have others around while you work on your stuff, as they work on theirs. It keeps you working instead of mindlessly doing other things.

This spring I should be able to host a get together like that. Once the shop is finished up I'll be good to go. I've got plenty of parking (though for a bit it's going to be packed dirt). I've got a small fab shop's worth of tools (bender, welder, drill press, 20 ton press, etc.). As well, I've got a decent size backyard where we can BS, drink, and so on. Since I'm just outside city limits, no worry about many things

I know I'm a bit North, but it'd be worth it

 

[old_man]

Agreed on the work on your junk days. I may be looking for a bit of help in swapping a tranny. I have the place and the tools and have done many by myself, but for safety's sake, sometimes it is nice to have an extra set of hands.

We used to help each other build our rigs. This seems to have fallen by the wayside.

 

[BlacknBlue_XJ]

I agree that the install days are the best possible type of gathering we could have.

Its relevant to everyone from rock crawlers to the simple enthusiast that has been described earlier in the thread. It encourages people to learn about their rig in an environment that is much less likely to leave them without a vehicle they might need (i.e. by themself). I know I would like to drive around with someone that has had a few XJ's to narrow down some of the noises mine is making.