Weapons in School?

[5-90]

The problem is simple - there is exactly one weapon available to anyone, and that's the one between your ears. Anything else is an extension of your capabilities - either expanding your effective range, increasing your strength, or increasing the depth of trauma you are able to inflict.

"Your rifle is only a tool. It is a hard heart that kills."

Therefore, I teach people that firearms, knives, sharp sticks, rocks, and what-have-you are not weapons - they're merely tools. They can be used to preserve life or to take it.

This is the distinction that is not being made. I have carried a pocketknife nearly constantly for the last 30 years, and it's just a tool. I've used it to defend myself, I've used it to feed myself, and I've used it to finish jobs that I couldn't do barehanded.

I carried it all through school, and no-one seemed to care. Figure that about two-thirds of the teachers in school also carried some sort of small personal blade, and I either had to get mine out to handle lunch, or to loan to one of the teachers who didn't carry a personal blade. For me, it's just a part of getting dressed in the morning - if I've got my pants on, I've got my blade, so you don't need to ask.

What are commonly called "weapons" are simply extensions of the user's will - and if that will is corrupt, that is the problem. It's not the fault of the inanimate object, it is the fault of the person holding that object. This is why some of us (and we're dating ourselves in recounting this!) were able to take .22 rifles to school and hunt small game on the way home - and the closest thing we had to "gun control" was giving the teacher the box of ammo (and, sometimes, presenting the rifle to verify - visually - that it was unloaded) and collecting the ammo at the end of the day. The admonishment given was "Don't load it until you get off school grounds."

You knew to not shoot anyone, because that would get you shot - and you didn't want that. Same reason knives weren't a problem - if you unshipped your blade against another person without a damn good reason, you'd get your arse whipped when you got home, and then get handed to the cops. I don't know how many fistfights I've been in where we both had blades in our pockets, and they stayed there.

I, too, blame parents - but I also blame the liberal "touchy-feely" lunatic fringe that sez that spanking your children is bad. Corporal punishment has its place - properly applied, it's a great motivator. Pain is an evolutionary mechanism that can be used to teach a lesson FAR faster than it would otherwise be learned.

I sometimes think we should bring back public floggings for minor offenses, rather than incarceration - which obviously isn't working...

5-90

 

[SCW]

Well, since I'm the only one in the thread who lives in California, I guess you are directing this at me? If so, f*** you. If not, sorry for the misunderstanding.

On another note, you also say there is nothing worse than Californians moving to small towns in Utah, Idaho, or Montana. For this I must say...F*** you. And there is no half way here. You definetely insulted me with that one. What makes you think you are so much better just because of the location in which you were born. Consider yourself lucky to be where you are, but don't get upset when other people like "your" neck of the woods.

BTW, this is not a personal attack, I would like to also attack anyone else who feels the same way and likes to generalize about "all" of any group (like Californians).

Did I stutter? Too big of words for the California public schools? Maybe spanish is better?

I don't care if you like where you are, hate it, learning spanish to get to know your neighbors or just want to spew foul language on the internet. Just STAY THERE!!!

Bwahahaha.....

ta-ta.

 

[DrMoab]

I don't hate Californians. I do however hate Californians who move to Utah (because its where I live) because they are so sick of California and its stupid laws, taxes and all the other crap and then the first thing they do is try to make this place another California.

If you like it there fine...No one will hold that against you. Just don't come here and try to make this place another California.

I might be putting words into SCWs mouth but Im sure he feels a lot the same way.

I quit my last job so I wouldn't have to drive in your god forsaken state anymore. If California fell off the face of the earth I would feel bad for a few of you who I like but the rest can go to hell.

Well, since I'm the only one in the thread who lives in California, I guess you are directing this at me? If so, f*** you. If not, sorry for the misunderstanding.

On another note, you also say there is nothing worse than Californians moving to small towns in Utah, Idaho, or Montana. For this I must say...F*** you. And there is no half way here. You definetely insulted me with that one. What makes you think you are so much better just because of the location in which you were born. Consider yourself lucky to be where you are, but don't get upset when other people like "your" neck of the woods.

BTW, this is not a personal attack, I would like to also attack anyone else who feels the same way and likes to generalize about "all" of any group (like Californians).

 

[grimgaunt]

Umm, rime is an ok word (at least in the english language) - means the rim of frost around a shape.

 

[5-90]

Well, since I'm the only one in the thread who lives in California, I guess you are directing this at me?

Check the location - and play nice.

Granted, I'm not a "Native" Californian - I'm a transplant, and I regard my staying in California a temporary inconvenience. Hoosier by birth, Boilermaker by the Grace of God.

However, I will agree with you that the Liberals are taking over out here (and those are the people I have issue with - the Liberals and Yuppies,) and they're spreading out and infecting the rest of the country. I say, ship them all the Antarctica (there's LOTS of room down there!) and just fence off McMurdo Sound Station, since there's some useful research going on down there, as I recall.

We're just having a difficult time trying to find somewhere to get some elbow room, and to get away from the California Infection. My wife is "Native" Californian, and she's getting tired of the place as well (when I first met her a dozen years or so ago, I thought she was a transplant as well. She's lived 49 of her 51 years right here in Santa Clara County...)

As far as education goes, I had to tutor a neighbour last year in maths for his "California High School Exit Examination" (CAHSEE.) I had difficulty with it - not because the material itself was difficult (it wasn't,) but because it was stuff I hadn't seen myself since early middle school. I was also stonkered - if there is an English section of the CAHSEE, why were there instructional materials available in Spanish, Vietnamese, Tagalog, and Mandarin? Perhaps I'm missing something?

If you want a good textbook on a solid subject (mostly technical,) get one from 1975 or earlier. That's from when they didn't care so much about presenting the information in multiple, inoffensive formats - just presenting the information, explaining it, and doing so in clear English. Most of my favourite technical books are from the 40's and 50's - for that reason. We've become so obsessed with the idea that we might inadvertently "offend" someone (who shouldn't be allowed in public with such thin skin in the first place!) that we aren't really teaching anymore. Mastery of High School maths brings kids up to about the level I was at in mid-seventh grade, I think...

5-90

 

[JohnX]

Check the location - and play nice.


5-90

I thought I did? Must have missed someone. As for nice....you know that isn't any fun.

 

[5-90]

I thought I did? Must have missed someone. As for nice....you know that isn't any fun.

True - but I'd like to see one of these threads turn into a civilised debate, rather than degenerate in prepubescent name-calling. I see enough of that one a daily basis - and going "back to school" give me a view of all of that I can handle... No, thanks.

Part of why I like it here is because intelligent discussions can and do happen, and happen without the interference of the worst sort of "intellectual" - an individual educated beyond his intelligence (like my English 1A instructor. How I passed that course eludes me... How can you get an "F" on a paper assigned to express an opinion, when the opinion was well-constructed and had a clear basis - and the grammar, spelling, and punctuation was about the best in the class? She probably wasn't happy that I took it right to the Department Head when I didn't get anywhere with her...)

5-90

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

Only a dork would bring a hunting rifle to school...





Why?

Because they're not very useful in CQB... need something a bit more compact

:firedevil

 

[DrMoab]

Spoken like a big city dude.

Some of us liked to hunt after school.

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

Spoken like a big city dude.

Some of us liked to hunt after school.

Only thing we hunted after school was beaver.

 

[DrMoab]

Only thing we hunted after school was beaver.

Sucks to be you.

They only ever costed me money.

 

[5-90]

Only thing we hunted after school was beaver.

Depended upon a couple of things...

- What I felt like eating that night...
- What she was doing later.

5-90

 

[What Rd]

Umm, rime is an ok word (at least in the english language) - means the rim of frost around a shape.

You're right that "rime" is a correct word - in a proper context. I'm also a pilot and in that context I learned that word as describing a type of wing icing.
It is NOT correct, however, in the context of a kindergartener's book describing the concept of words that share correspondence in terminal sounds (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate). It is true that Webster's lists as a third meaning of "rime", "rimer', and "rimester" a "variation of rhyme, rhymer, rhymster." Does anyone seriously care to debate whether it is appropriate for our kids to grow up looking like idiots because they are unfamiliar with the proper spelling (ever since it's derivation from the Old French in the 13th century) of RHYME?
The English language is difficult enough without progressive teachers and publishers of teaching materials purposely teaching them incorrect usages and spellings. THIS was my point.

 

[lilredwagn]

You're right that "rime" is a correct word - in a proper context. I'm also a pilot and in that context I learned that word as describing a type of wing icing.
It is NOT correct, however, in the context of a kindergartener's book describing the concept of words that share correspondence in terminal sounds (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate). It is true that Webster's lists as a third meaning of "rime", "rimer', and "rimester" a "variation of rhyme, rhymer, rhymster." Does anyone seriously care to debate whether it is appropriate for our kids to grow up looking like idiots because they are unfamiliar with the proper spelling (ever since it's derivation from the Old French in the 13th century) of RHYME?
The English language is difficult enough without progressive teachers and publishers of teaching materials purposely teaching them incorrect usages and spellings. THIS was my point.

I still think you're way off base in seeing this as some sort of liberal conspiracy, but I've found an instance of this error. I had assumed that you were mistakenly referring to perhaps a reference to a Coleridge poem, or perhaps the vowel-followed-by-consonants (in which case "rime" is a correct word).

Google found this though: http://www.sheboyganfalls.k12.wi.us/staff/dehogue/poetry/what_is_a_poem_made_of.htm

Interesting.

 

[What Rd]

I still think you're way off base in seeing this as some sort of liberal conspiracy, but I've found an instance of this error. I had assumed that you were mistakenly referring to perhaps a reference to a Coleridge poem, or perhaps the vowel-followed-by-consonants (in which case "rime" is a correct word).

Google found this though: http://www.sheboyganfalls.k12.wi.us/staff/dehogue/poetry/what_is_a_poem_made_of.htm

Interesting.

I find it interesting that you found your own example of the example I was describing and yet still think I'm "way off base." Can you explain why these educators have chosen to purposely misrepresent this material? Absent a very thorough, well documented and ultimately convincing explanation as to how and why this derivative of the English language is a preferable way to present concepts to my children, I respectfully decline to play the role of sheep and accept it without question. Why do you?
In my 23 years of formal education, I've encountered innumerable teachers who were unwilling or unprepared, or both, to explain or defend their positions on matters they were presenting as fact. They form their progressive view of the world and then present it not as a possibility or even as a desired goal but rather as a fait accompli. Many resented the fact that I dared even to question the foundations of what they put forth. Is that the type of education you want shaping the minds of our future leaders?

 

[lilredwagn]

I find it interesting that you found your own example of the example I was describing and yet still think I'm "way off base." Can you explain why these educators have chosen to purposely misrepresent this material? Absent a very thorough, well documented and ultimately convincing explanation as to how and why this derivative of the English language is a preferable way to present concepts to my children, I respectfully decline to play the role of sheep and accept it without question. Why do you?
In my 23 years of formal education, I've encountered innumerable teachers who were unwilling or unprepared, or both, to explain or defend their positions on matters they were presenting as fact. They form their progressive view of the world and then present it not as a possibility or even as a desired goal but rather as a fait accompli. Many resented the fact that I dared even to question the foundations of what they put forth. Is that the type of education you want shaping the minds of our future leaders?

Oh, I'm not saying I like it, I'm just saying I don't think it's a liberal conspiracy, and I don't think that whoever proposed it did so in some deliberate effort to make our kids even dumber than they are. Off the top of my head, I would guess that it's some sort of movement to adjust the english language to be more logical phonetically. Personally, I've always been adept at spelling and pronunciation (probably because my parents read to me when I was little), so I'm inclined to think that it's ridiculous. Nonetheless, language is in constant flux, and literacy is atrocious anyway, so if psychologists and educators have done the proper studies and found that making the language easier to handle with words like "rime" has a measured positive impact on learning, then so be it.

As much as I am attached to the words that I grew up with and the way they have been spelled, what is important about "rhyme" or any other part of the language is that it conveys information in a useful and nuanced manner. Changing the word to "rime" only changes the visual appeal, which has more to do with familiarity than with actual aesthetics.

 

[Newbie94XJ]

Well shit... if you think about it Cars are weapons...(especially Jeeps ).What angers me is I have been searched 5 times in the 4 years i've been going to highschool. This is most because of my temper.. I have been searched for Drugs, Knives, Guns, Razor Blades, and ALL sorts of other crap like flamables and junk... Not only cuzza my temper BUT ALSO because of the yuppie parents of the stupid freshman who are worried that i might hurt their little boys and girls... because i look Badass.......... i carry a work knife on me almost everywhere i go... i cant anymore cuz i am afraid of being searched and expelled for have a buck knife on me .. it PISSES me off... It's the Yuppies who are afraid to get their Lexus,Mercedes, BMW, and Acura Off Road "capable" vehicles dirty..... (same with Cadillac, Crysler, Hummer, and Lincoln.)... frickin yups need to be put into their place and leave all the normal people alone and not care about stupid things like knives... if people werent so scared about dying it wouldnt be a problem and no one would even get hurt with a knife unless it was an accident in the home or at the work site... thats my opinion and point of view...

 

[What Rd]

. . . so if psychologists and educators have done the proper studies and found that making the language easier to handle with words like "rime" has a measured positive impact on learning, then so be it.

Close, but you're still not hearing me. Recall that I said, "Absent a very thorough, well documented and ultimately convincing explanation as to how and why this derivative of the English language is a preferable way to present concepts to my children, I respectfully decline to play the role of sheep and accept it without question." So, where are these studies? They certainly have not been presented to me. Neither have they been presented to my wife, who happens to be an M.S.Ed. teacher working from the very curriculum I'm so concerned about. You, too, seem willing to assume that someone has determined that this is a worthwhile and not harmful deviation from what these kids will need to know later in life. Forget not teaching the classics - we're no longer bothering with proper English! :helpme:

 

[lilredwagn]

Close, but you're still not hearing me. Recall that I said, "Absent a very thorough, well documented and ultimately convincing explanation as to how and why this derivative of the English language is a preferable way to present concepts to my children, I respectfully decline to play the role of sheep and accept it without question." So, where are these studies? They certainly have not been presented to me. Neither have they been presented to my wife, who happens to be an M.S.Ed. teacher working from the very curriculum I'm so concerned about. You, too, seem willing to assume that someone has determined that this is a worthwhile and not harmful deviation from what these kids will need to know later in life. Forget not teaching the classics - we're no longer bothering with proper English! :helpme:

Well, yeah, certainly I won't begrudge you the right to not be a sheep, but your initial statement was, "They are teaching the kids things that are not merely debatable points of view, but things that are flat-out WRONG in the name of being "progressive." I was assuming the possibility that it was worthwhile to counter your assumption that it was malign. Absent an explanation, whether it's based on misguided principles or not, I don't see how it can be determined that it is WRONG, much less originates from a deliberate left-wing indoctrination policy.

I don't have kids or an english or education degree, so the actual outcome isn't as critical to me. Questioning the issue may keep you from the role of sheep, but I didn't see a question in that original statement

Specific to the actual issue, I can't find anything on Google that would indicate it is a directed program. There are many documents out there explaining "rime" in the phonetic context, however, even so far as to explain that "rimes" are the "rhyming" parts of words. I know that there are more than enough teachers out there who are incompetent enough to misunderstand the information and thus pass on the inadvertant misspelling, but that's the sort of thing you would hope would be cleared up by an attentive parent (sad as such a situation may be). Moreover, if that is the case, it's surprising that the error made it into published material.

Was the workbook in question designed by an educational company, or was it done in house by the school (is it a public school?). Also, has your wife tried to contact the publisher for an explanation?

 

[XJ Eric]

Man, I miss my highschool. Our rules followed state law with regards to weapons. If the blade was more than 3.5 inches it wasn't allowed. We were all a bunch of farmboys anyway. It wasn't weird to see a tractor in the parking lot. One fight a year and only 700 hundred students from 7th to 12th grade. The football field was the "Pasture of Pain!" And hell, we took the Alleghany Mountain League Championship 3 years running. Those were the days, and I'm only 28!