Unique lift questions/Problems

[THE_OWL]

I just took my front coils springs out for inspection.
I was assuming my springs were about 18" long or so.
I had Natl Spring make me a set that were rather stiff for the extra weight on the front of my XJ.
So I take them out and they measure 23.5"!!!! I also have a 1.75 coil spacer, adj Lowers, fixed uppers and Trailmaster Drop down brackets.
Here is a pic of my jeep with lots of fender trimming and 35" SSRs.

My question is, could my springs be sagging this much when I put them under load? Seems to me that this combo is a lot of lift.
Skyjackers 8" Rockreadys are 22.5" and RockKrawlers are like 22"
I need more lift. Im guessing longer coils arent the solution unless mine are really sagging this much.
Any advice on getting this squared up? Looking to get about 2" more
\\hoot

 

[MaXJohnson]

You're saying that your springs were 18" compressed and 23 1/2" free-standing?

Assuming 2,000 lbs on the front end, a pair of 200 lbs/in springs would compress 5". You probably don't have quite that much sprung weight on the front end, so your spring rate should be under 200 lbs/in. You'd have to know the true unsprung weight of your rig to calculate an exact rate.

 

[THE_OWL]

No, I didnt measure them with weight. I said I assumed they were 18" by the amount of lift I have

 

[THE_OWL]

spring is 16.5 with all weight. Chevy V8, winch Aftermarket bumper, dual batteries.
does this mean I need a spring with a higher rate, or a longer spring?
grrr I hate doing this stuff. They should just make a kit for chevy V8 XJs with 10" lift

 

[MaXJohnson]

How about installing the ACOS from ORGS Mfg.? That would give you up to 3" of lift on top of the springs you have now. You could probably get a little more out of them, but 3" is the maximum that ORGS recommends.

Lift springs can have a little heavier spring rate to compensate for body roll and heavier add-on accessories like your winch. Otherwise, spring rate should be used to adjust ride quality, not lift. Spring rate for a given vehicle is based on sprung weight and suspension design to return the desired suspension frequency.

 

[THE_OWL]

I hate to spend 180$ on something when I can get really good springs for that price.
My springs could use replacing. I need to find someone who custom pulls any length coil

 

[Eagle]

You are missing part of the equation. Two parts, actually.

There are three factors that determine how long a spring will be when installed, and also the spring rate. The free (uninstalled) length of the spring is one factor. Next is the wire diameter ... you can have two springs of equal free length and equal number of turns, but if one uses thinner wire it will have a lower rate and will compresss more under the same load.

Third factor is number of coils. A coil spring is basically just a torsion bar that's been wrapped around a lamp post a few times. Longer is flexier. If you take two springs of equal length and the same wire diameter, the one with more coils will be softer and will compress more.

To get a spring made, you need to be able to tell the manufacturer what the basic weight (load) will be on the spring, the spring rate you want to achieve, and the static loaded height you want. Unless they know all that information, they can't possibly make up a spring for you.

 

[THE_OWL]

How am I missing the two parts?
Spring Manufacturers should know these issues. Natl Spring did when they made mine. I told them what engine I had, what extra weight on the front was. What style of driving I do and how much lift I want.
I didnt tell the orthodontist which teeth I want straight

 

[XJoachim]

So this means you don't even know the weight of your rig in front. How should a coil manufacturer know it just from telling that you run a V8 a bumper and dual batteries?

Come on, be realistic, they don't have a clue about the weight, they just give you what they think might work or worked in a lot of XJs.

 

[TN William]

I guess I am having trouble understanding the problem.

You want a new set of springs. You want a custom spring so you need to know the weight. To find out you can:

1) Weigh the front and subtract the weight od the axle, tires, and wheels.

2) Call National and have them pull the records for your current springs and get the spring rate. Multiply spring rate by the compression (7" in this case) and multiply by 2.

3) Put on a set of coils with known spring rate and use the same equation.


I am guessing that you are at about 2100-2200 pounds. Based on your measurements your springs would be in the 155-160 lb/in range.


If all springs were sold by spring rate and free length life would be much easier.

 

[THE_OWL]

Come on, be realistic, they don't have a clue about the weight, they just give you what they think might work or worked in a lot of XJs.

I know the weight of the winch, the bumper and extra goodies on the front. Minus the weight of the lighter motor. (approx 80lbs)
And you dont hink its realistic for a spring company to have vehicle weights on record?
laff
Why wouldnt they. Thats what they do, everyday.
If you called Rubicon express and told them u needed some coil springs for the front of your XJ, and they asked you what alxe you had in the front, would you be suprised?

This wasnt a post to bring out the " I bought a kit" guys
I wanted to know if a spring dropping from 23.5 free to 16.5 weighted was normal.
I do appreciate the ones that tried to help tho.

 

[RCP Phx]

You have to have spring compression at static height.Thats where yourdown travel comes from.Without going to extremes a good number would be 50% of the overall travel!

 

[Eagle]

How am I missing the two parts?
Spring Manufacturers should know these issues. Natl Spring did when they made mine. I told them what engine I had, what extra weight on the front was. What style of driving I do and how much lift I want.
I didnt tell the orthodontist which teeth I want straight

Did you tell them what spring rate you wanted?

In one of your posts, you asked "does this mean I need a spring with a higher rate, or a longer spring?"

If your vehicle is sitting lower than what you want, the correct answer to your question is "Yes."

You need one, or the other, or both. A spring the same free length with a higher rate will compress less -- and will ride "firmer." A spring of the same rate but a longer free length will compress down to the same loaded height, and will ride softer because of the lower rate. Or you can have a spring made up that's slightly longer and has a slightly stiffer rate, that will settle down to the height you want.

You cannot leave out one of the criteria and expect the spring company to fill in the blank.

 

[THE_OWL]

these were made so long ago. 1995 to be axact. there wasnt a company doing lifts or springs that high. In fact the highest production lift you could buy was the 4" trailmaster.
Forums and such werent available on the internet. It was all kind of a hack job. Like I said, I told the guy on the phone the specs, (weight and engine) and what kind of driving (mostly daily driver)
I still had stock uppers, and pieces of all kinds of lifts. Yea Imagine 23.5" springs under stock upper arms hehe.
So later when I did my suspension correct, I kept the springs because they seemed high enough. Like most peoples projects, it goes in stages.
But as far as leaving anything out, I answered everything the rep at Natl asked me. There isnt much more I could have done at this point. Remember there wasnt very many of these things floating around. 33" tires was considered extreme. And finding info out meant phone calls and catalog browsing, No internet.
And again a 23.5" spring is huge, so I am assuming it is rather soft and Natl did what they thought would be best

 

[MaXJohnson]

Unless I missed it, you never have mentioned what you don't like about the existing springs. You said you thought they were designed to be a little on the stiff side, but from your description of free and compressed height, it sounds like they are pretty soft. Are they too soft? Are they binding? If you try to find too long of a spring (compressed) you can end up with the spring bowing or snaking.

 

[THE_OWL]

Must Go bigger. Need Bigger!
Springs are actually great. super flexy, Have lasted a long time, I just need bigger. And Longer I dont think is the solution from everything thats been hashed out. So Im gonna call a few places on Tuesday and see if they can get my rig setup right