BRIANHO13
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Why does a union think they have the right to shut down an entire city?
Unions Wtf
- Thread starter BRIANHO13
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5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
Ah, but there are two points on the other side...
1) They did not "shut down the city." True, they mightily inconvenienced the city, but the city is still swinging along and business is still getting done, no?
2) While I don't know the specifics (and therefore can't render an opinion,) I do have some union history - as long as the reasonable demands of the union are met during contract negotiation, then there's no reason to strike. So, part of the blame can be laid to the other side (in this case, the MTA) as well. The union usually decides to strike after the Company refuses to meet their demands, or even to negotiate a position, and that is the proximate cause of the strike in the first place.
Now, I don't know the specifics of the negotiations taking place, but if I did, it might help me better understand their position. However, from "reading between the lines" and inferring what might be a counterposition to the MTA taking a step backwards in either pension or compensation - probably pension. NOT good!
While seeking an unreasonable increase in compensation will certainly be met with difficulty, the pension (and, to a similar extent, the compensation) should be based upon several factors:
Time in service
Expected service lifetime vice actual lifetime (for hazardous occupations)
Criticality of service
Stress upon operators of service (is burnout an issue?)
Demands of service (physical or mental - maybe not related to stress)
As well as several other factors - many of which are related to the tasks of the occupation. For example, the factors that would apply to "military service" might not apply to "physician," and those would certainly not apply to "attorney" - and the latter are universally overcompensated, and should be able to save up for their own pensions.
So, while I'd need a great deal more facts than I possess at the time, I'd like to know more - it may not be, strictly speaking, the transit union's fault. We might need to lay some blame at the feet of the MTA as well...
5-90
1) They did not "shut down the city." True, they mightily inconvenienced the city, but the city is still swinging along and business is still getting done, no?
2) While I don't know the specifics (and therefore can't render an opinion,) I do have some union history - as long as the reasonable demands of the union are met during contract negotiation, then there's no reason to strike. So, part of the blame can be laid to the other side (in this case, the MTA) as well. The union usually decides to strike after the Company refuses to meet their demands, or even to negotiate a position, and that is the proximate cause of the strike in the first place.
Now, I don't know the specifics of the negotiations taking place, but if I did, it might help me better understand their position. However, from "reading between the lines" and inferring what might be a counterposition to the MTA taking a step backwards in either pension or compensation - probably pension. NOT good!
While seeking an unreasonable increase in compensation will certainly be met with difficulty, the pension (and, to a similar extent, the compensation) should be based upon several factors:
Time in service
Expected service lifetime vice actual lifetime (for hazardous occupations)
Criticality of service
Stress upon operators of service (is burnout an issue?)
Demands of service (physical or mental - maybe not related to stress)
As well as several other factors - many of which are related to the tasks of the occupation. For example, the factors that would apply to "military service" might not apply to "physician," and those would certainly not apply to "attorney" - and the latter are universally overcompensated, and should be able to save up for their own pensions.
So, while I'd need a great deal more facts than I possess at the time, I'd like to know more - it may not be, strictly speaking, the transit union's fault. We might need to lay some blame at the feet of the MTA as well...
5-90
BRIANHO13
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ok here are the issues at hand
NEW YORK — Key issues:
PENSIONS: The Metropolitan Transportation Authority originally wanted to raise the age at which new employees become eligible for a full pension from 55 to 62. The union objected. The MTA later agreed to allow pension eligibility at 55 for new employees, but asked that they contribute 6 percent of their salaries for their first 10 years of employment.
WAGES: The MTA had proposed annual raises of 3 percent. The union wanted considerably higher pay increases; a later MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent.
HEALTH: The MTA wants new employees to contribute 1 percent of their salary to pay for health insurance. Transit workers currently do not have to pay anything for health insurance.
SECURITY: The union wants disaster-preparedness training, following transit system bombings in Madrid and London.
HOLIDAYS: The latest MTA proposal added the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.
This stuff pretty much affects new employees.
This is strick is estimated to cost 300m per day
When I read over the stuff "on the table" I am sure its better than most get.
I wonder why everything is going overseas?
NEW YORK — Key issues:
PENSIONS: The Metropolitan Transportation Authority originally wanted to raise the age at which new employees become eligible for a full pension from 55 to 62. The union objected. The MTA later agreed to allow pension eligibility at 55 for new employees, but asked that they contribute 6 percent of their salaries for their first 10 years of employment.
WAGES: The MTA had proposed annual raises of 3 percent. The union wanted considerably higher pay increases; a later MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent.
HEALTH: The MTA wants new employees to contribute 1 percent of their salary to pay for health insurance. Transit workers currently do not have to pay anything for health insurance.
SECURITY: The union wants disaster-preparedness training, following transit system bombings in Madrid and London.
HOLIDAYS: The latest MTA proposal added the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.
This stuff pretty much affects new employees.
This is strick is estimated to cost 300m per day
When I read over the stuff "on the table" I am sure its better than most get.
I wonder why everything is going overseas?
- Location
- Thornton, CO
It is illegal for them to strike. The Governor? is suing on the city's behalf. Up to $25,000 per day, per employee. It's gonna be a tight christmas in those homes.
5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
Ah - that's more information than I had handy (sorry, but I didn't have the time or the inclination to look it up. I'm glad you did!)
PENSIONS - Considering Federal mandatory retirement age is 65, and you don't get Social Security until age 60 (don't even get me started on Social Security...) that's a step in line with the rest of the country. Granted, I don't know what NYC Transit work is like - and that could very well be a factor.
WAGES - This one I can see - a 3% annual raise is hardly a COLA raise (Cost Of Living Allowance) - that one should reallly be 6% or so if it's to be a living wage. Possibly more, if the costs of fuel are going to spiral more (unless somehow all these people transit to work - does MTA maintain a 24-hour schedule?)
HEALTH - Given the rising costs of healtcare, giving one percent of wages isn't too bad at all. Certainly less than we have to hand over... I'd need to know more about their plan, but that isn't a large issue.
SECURITY - This training should long have been part of the package for MTA employees for a long time - especially tunnel workers. I don't know why it isn't - it damn well should be, even before the Madrid and London bombings.
HOLIDAYS - What, specifically, is the issue here. And, I don't know why MTA is giving MLK day - y'ask me, it's a half-assed holiday to begin with. Save it for the majors - Christmas, New Year's, Independence, Armistice Day, Memorial Day, &c.
I'd have to see what that's being offered against to finish an opinion, but I can't see the problem from here. That may change - but I have larger issues to handle at the moment...
5-90
PENSIONS - Considering Federal mandatory retirement age is 65, and you don't get Social Security until age 60 (don't even get me started on Social Security...) that's a step in line with the rest of the country. Granted, I don't know what NYC Transit work is like - and that could very well be a factor.
WAGES - This one I can see - a 3% annual raise is hardly a COLA raise (Cost Of Living Allowance) - that one should reallly be 6% or so if it's to be a living wage. Possibly more, if the costs of fuel are going to spiral more (unless somehow all these people transit to work - does MTA maintain a 24-hour schedule?)
HEALTH - Given the rising costs of healtcare, giving one percent of wages isn't too bad at all. Certainly less than we have to hand over... I'd need to know more about their plan, but that isn't a large issue.
SECURITY - This training should long have been part of the package for MTA employees for a long time - especially tunnel workers. I don't know why it isn't - it damn well should be, even before the Madrid and London bombings.
HOLIDAYS - What, specifically, is the issue here. And, I don't know why MTA is giving MLK day - y'ask me, it's a half-assed holiday to begin with. Save it for the majors - Christmas, New Year's, Independence, Armistice Day, Memorial Day, &c.
I'd have to see what that's being offered against to finish an opinion, but I can't see the problem from here. That may change - but I have larger issues to handle at the moment...
5-90
Dookie
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Shore-town, WA
unions are the crutch of the weak and lazy.
Fergie
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Flagstaff, AZ
Agreed.Dookie said:
Unions have outlived their use.
Fergie
5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
Only if the weak and lazy are invovled. The last union job I had (IBT #576, Automotive Workers & Warehousemen) saw me as Shop Steward to a batch of people who couldn't take the time off (it was paid, and they couldn't say no if the stores could be manned effectively...) to go to contract meetings, and complained to me when they got screwed. Here's the kicker - they WANTED to strike, but COULDN'T - it was in the new contract. If you struck any time other than while the contract was in negotiation, you'd get fired out of hand.
They them complained to me - "why didn't I tell them?" I pointed to the bulletin board where I'd posted draft contracts, and daily updates the WHOLE DAMN TIME, and said "Did you read any of those?"
Of course they hadn't. They couldn't be arsed to show up for the twice-weekly contracts meetings I held in the shop, either. But oh, how they bitched about it.
Is a union a good thing? It can be. Is it a crutch? It can be. If it's counted upon as a crutch, tho, it usually falls out from under you when you need it the worst - and there's NOT A DAMN THING you can do about it!
5-90
They them complained to me - "why didn't I tell them?" I pointed to the bulletin board where I'd posted draft contracts, and daily updates the WHOLE DAMN TIME, and said "Did you read any of those?"
Of course they hadn't. They couldn't be arsed to show up for the twice-weekly contracts meetings I held in the shop, either. But oh, how they bitched about it.
Is a union a good thing? It can be. Is it a crutch? It can be. If it's counted upon as a crutch, tho, it usually falls out from under you when you need it the worst - and there's NOT A DAMN THING you can do about it!
5-90
Uglygreenxj
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Circle City, AZ
Dookie said:
I worked my a$$ of serving a 5 year apprenticeship and graduated with honors. As a result I make a good wage and my family has excellent health coverage and I will be able to retire comfortably. Yes I work union. Your above response is ignorant. The "weak and lazy" take advantage of the unions and enjoy the benefits but don't do a damn thing at work and then hide behind thier union book. Those guys piss me off and make us look bad. But as with anything else, the minority group of jacka$$es make the whole organization look bad. It's not a perfect system, but I could work non union and work just as hard as I do now and work longer hours without proper compensation and for crappy benefits. Then I could complain about how my employer is taking advantage of me, and also complain about those damn union guys making too much money.
Just my 2 cents.
ECKSJAY
Water is dirty
- Location
- Covington, WA
TRNDRVR said:But damn do I make a lot of money.
Thanks for doing your part.
- Location
- REDLANDS, CA. (SoCal)
Can you say Air Traffic Controller? 
The solution is simple and straight forward;
You want your job? [ ]Yes [ ] No
The solution is simple and straight forward;
You want your job? [ ]Yes [ ] No
- Location
- REDLANDS, CA. (SoCal)
5-90 said:
Rationally and accurately stated.
JohnJohn
Member #42
- Location
- Austin, Texas
Dookie said:
:worship:
Unions are also killing the car business too. The biggest joke in Colorado is the teachers union, a union for people who only have to be to work 75% of the time all of us have to work? WTF?
Obviously I can offer no good factual data in my drunken state of mind. Please ignore.
5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
Bent said:
Call it the voice of experience. I've worked in strong union shops, and I've worked in weak union shops. My parents were union, and my grandparents (both sides) were union - I was on picket lines as soon as I was able to walk.
I've seen what a strong shop can do, and what a weak union can't do - and I call them like I see them...
5-90
- Location
- Far West Suburb of Chicago
I was a Teamster during the 80's
they took good care of me.
Pay and work was good.
Health and Dental benefits were fantastic.
I never had a complaint.
...BOB
they took good care of me.
Pay and work was good.
Health and Dental benefits were fantastic.
I never had a complaint.
...BOB
ECKSJAY
Water is dirty
- Location
- Covington, WA
Hey, aren't Democrats real big pro-union supporters?
BRIANHO13
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- Location
- Spring, TX
HUGEECKSJAY said:
but they like lazy people, anyone they can give tax payer money to.
Don't know if they are related or not you make the call.
I once toured a GE dishwasher plant, on the line there was a guy in a recliner, while the dishwashers pass over head he put in four screws with a pre loaded screw gun. My friend is an Engineer there, found out the guy made $24/hour. Can't imagine why that plant is considering going to Mexico.
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