Trying to fit a front Wagoneer Dana44? Pics

[cracker]

Doh, look what I went and started. :doh:

Cracker and Begster gave a clearer definition on what I was attempting to say. I wasn't speaking of the housing itself, but rather that of the weakness is coast vs. drive sides of the ring gear. Thanks guys.

Scott

Not to worry Scott. you did a great job explaining everything else though :cheers:

Troublemaker. :cheers: I think I would like a list of people who have actually witnessed LPD44 ring gears giving up the ghost - I think it will be a short list. I understand the engineering and that technically the LP ring is weaker in a front application, but I have wheeled with several YJ owners on 36-38" tires, locked, on LP D44s and never seen a failure. It is more than enough girth for nearly everyone, IMHO. :lecture:

You are absolutely correct. The list would be VERY short and would have to be with a lot of power and probably some really crappy driving. The low pinion D44 with our power plant (tired 4.0s) is more than adequate to withstand some good wheeling.

Keep in mind the Waggy 44 was spec'd in a rig that had a AMC 360 in it (as an option) and weighed 1000# more.

Of course a high pinion would be better for clearance though.....

 

[diegom6]

I'm going to check what's the cost of th epictureds-semi assambled Waggy axle from this person that offered it to me.

Like I asked but maybe it was overlooked, the other option seems to the Bronco Dana44, but I'm not sure what years exactly would be the ideal choice? I saw a write up of a Bronco Dana44 being fitted in a YJ and from the look, the housing looked bit in the middle of the whole axle, or like it is placed more at the center of the Jeep, where ina XJ might be a problem?

Thanks

PS: I'm still waiting for reponse from the RCV CV joint axles guys to see if the carry for the Waggy axle.

 

[trd_xj42]

Troublemaker. :cheers: I think I would like a list of people who have actually witnessed LPD44 ring gears giving up the ghost - I think it will be a short list. I understand the engineering and that technically the LP ring is weaker in a front application, but I have wheeled with several YJ owners on 36-38" tires, locked, on LP D44s and never seen a failure. It is more than enough girth for nearly everyone, IMHO. :lecture:

I've always wondered this myself. It seems like everyone jumps on the don't do a Waggy swap cause it's low pinion and it's weaker bandwagon. The clearance I understand, but I always question when people say the HP30 = LP44.

PS: I'm still waiting for reponse from the RCV CV joint axles guys to see if the carry for the Waggy axle.

They do, but the stub is 30 spline instead of 19.
https://www.rcvperformance.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=53&products_id=67

 

[cracker]

The clearance I understand, but I always question when people say the HP30 = LP44.

Statements like that are all over Naxja here and are unsubstantiated and impossible to prove.

For me, I would rather have a LP 44 all day long over a HP 30.

 

[IdahoEagle]

Diegom6, you can use the Wagoneer front and use early to mid 80s Dodge brake rotors and hubs to convert it to a 5 on 5 1/2" bolt pattern and just get upgraded axle shafts that have a dual pattern already drilled into them for the rear Dana 44 you currently have. That way you end up with the strength from the front 44 and get a stronger rear at the same time without spending too much money.
You can buy a weld-on truss for the front for the Wag 44 from TNT Customs that will give you all the link mounts and coil buckets already setup and ready to weld on. Eliminates a ton of guess work...

 

[xj-grin]

Statements like that are all over Naxja here and are unsubstantiated and impossible to prove.

For me, I would rather have a LP 44 all day long over a HP 30.

I agree, and I DO!:thumbup:

 

[trd_xj42]

For me, I would rather have a LP 44 all day long over a HP 30.

I agree, and I DO!:thumbup:

x3.

 

[diegom6]

Diegom6, you can use the Wagoneer front and use early to mid 80s Dodge brake rotors and hubs to convert it to a 5 on 5 1/2" bolt pattern and just get upgraded axle shafts that have a dual pattern already drilled into them for the rear Dana 44 you currently have. That way you end up with the strength from the front 44 and get a stronger rear at the same time without spending too much money.
You can buy a weld-on truss for the front for the Wag 44 from TNT Customs that will give you all the link mounts and coil buckets already setup and ready to weld on. Eliminates a ton of guess work...

Thanks for the input! The XJ is 5x4.5 while these mid 80's Dodge are 5x5 bolt pattern right?

Also I was thinking just to not mess with the wheel for the back and keep the 5x4.5 bolt pattern as they are very common in races down here (lot of XJ's, TJ's and YJ's runing that bolt pattern) that I can source quickly a wheel/tire mounted for any emergency after my spare tire is blown (happens usually) after racing it.
So for this situation thought about re make custom outter hubs (spindle I think it is?) so it can have 5x4.5 bolt pattern and fit them in the dana44 on the manual hubs and re drill the existing rotors to 5x4.5......now not sure if the dimenssion allows me to do that.

trd xj42, what is a STUB?

Thanks!!

 

[trd_xj42]

You won't be able to get the 4.5" pattern due to the diameter of the hub. If that pattern is important and you want a 44, the easiest way will be the Rubi 44, but you are only getting a center section that is stronger.

The stub shaft is the shaft in the knuckle/spindle, not the axle tube. Supposedly the RCV Dana 30 balls are slightly larger than the 44's because of the ball joints on a 44. I can't confirm that, but the thread on Pirate seems to indicate that.

 

[Begster]

OP, what size tire were you thinking of running?

 

[xj-grin]

there are indeed a couple of years of 1/2 ton dodge trucks that used a 5 on 4.5 pattern, but as I mentioned earlier, they do not have locking hubs typical of a D44, but rather a unitbearing which I understand to be weaker than that on the D30 - not much of an upgrade IMHO.

 

[diegom6]

Oh, so the stub is the "mini axle shaft" that bolts in the hub or in the XJ's where fits in the uni bearing hub right?

I'm going to run a joke of tire size......31x9.50 or 32x10.50 both R15. And no, the Dana30 isn't holding the abuse just in case it surprise with those tires why I'm having troubles. I have 4.10 gears and the 4.6L stroker with an AX-15 trans.

The problem with the Rubicon Axle (JK) is like 4-5 inches larger over the Dana30 and the Rubi Dana 44 from the TJ (is this the lenght of the stock Dan30 right' ? ) isn't available here unless I purchase a brand new axle and import it from USA wich won't happen.

And I wonder what means "Drive Slug Set" wich cost 199 adittional in the RCV site...hmmmm

 

[MoparManiac]

Oh, so the stub is the "mini axle shaft" that bolts in the hub or in the XJ's where fits in the uni bearing hub right?

I'm going to run a joke of tire size......31x9.50 or 32x10.50 both R15. And no, the Dana30 isn't holding the abuse just in case it surprise with those tires why I'm having troubles. I have 4.10 gears and the 4.6L stroker with an AX-15 trans.

The problem with the Rubicon Axle (JK) is like 4-5 inches larger over the Dana30 and the Rubi Dana 44 from the TJ (is this the lenght of the stock Dan30 right' ? ) isn't available here unless I purchase a brand new axle and import it from USA wich won't happen.

And I wonder what means "Drive Slug Set" wich cost 199 adittional in the RCV site...hmmmm

Not pointing fingers, but are you setting up the 4.10s in the D30 yourself?

I find it hard to believe you're breaking ring and pinions that frequently on only 31s or 32s (even with a stroker). Stock carrier?

 

[diegom6]

I run a Jeep shopp (dealershipp) for many years, so don't worry or believe that the "installer" did it wrong, I use the stock measures, backlash, bolts, carrier,etc etc. In front I have stock dana 30 diff with the 4.10 and in the back I have Dana44 with ARB locker. Yep, stock carrier. (I had an ARB lcoker on front but in another race the bolts of the arb diff came loose and broke the ring-pinion , but because the axle was bit bend and the axle shaft acted like a pray bar and bang, bye bye whole front diff.) But years back I broke the front R&P because the years can't help me to remember the reason lol.

Couple of weeks back I broke the front diff while in reverse trying to climb a dune (couldn't do it forward) in a race event. End of story...sick of the Dana30, that thing can't hold the abuse I give it.

That's why I'm decided to upgrade the whole damn thing in the front for something superior.

PS: And I wonder what means "Drive Slug Set" wich cost 199 adittional in the RCV site...hmmmm

 

[MoparManiac]

A "drive slug" is a splined flange that couples the hub to the outer axleshaft (stubshaft) directly. It takes the place of a lockout style hub and permanently locks them together.

 

[xj-grin]

^^^ yep. Waggy's came stock with slugs instead of lockout hubs, but they are easily swapped in. You can usually find used 19spl waggy slugs for cheap.

 

[RCman]

^^^ yep. Waggy's came stock with slugs instead of lockout hubs, but they are easily swapped in. You can usually find used 19spl waggy slugs for cheap.

Those won't work with the RCV shafts though. RCVs have a 30 spline outer stub shaft.

 

[diegom6]

A "drive slug" is a splined flange that couples the hub to the outer axleshaft (stubshaft) directly. It takes the place of a lockout style hub and permanently locks them together.

Thanks for clarifying it Colin. So with these drive slug you won't have anymore the "manual hubs" or the option to open or lock the axles shaft as it comes stock in the Waggy? For that case, I would leave the stock manual hubs and save 200 bucks on these, plus I have th eoption to lock/unlñock the axle or just run all the time locked the axles with out major problem, unless the manual hubs tend to wear fast if they are locked and driven frequently?

I born in the manual hubs era, so I'm not familiar or very familiar with it's mechanic isndie or how do they look exactly, therefore my question about them. I'm still kinda young :/

Thanks

 

[MoparManiac]

As Bill (RCMan) stated above, if you buy the RCV axle shafts, you will need to run their drive slugs because they change the stubshaft spline count to 30 instead of 19.

You could also run a set of 30 spline Warn Premium lockout hubs. I believe they make them for D44s. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[cracker]

As Bill (RCMan) stated above, if you buy the RCV axle shafts, you will need to run their drive slugs because they change the stubshaft spline count to 30 instead of 19.

You could also run a set of 30 spline Warn Premium lockout hubs. I believe they make them for D44s. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Well.Double check that info.

I thought the 30 spline shafts were 1.33" and the 19 spline stubs were 1.25". Last time I tried sticking a 30 spline shaft in a D44 spindle was yesterday and it wouldn't fit.

(The spindle was a small bearing Chevy out of a '74).