Transmission/TorqConverter Problems

[basalt51]

Earlier this week I was driving down the highway and all of a sudden my CE light comes on and the Torque converter unlocks (RPMs went up) I tried 3rd and drive but the TC wouldn't lockup so I pulled over, shut the engine off, and then restarted. It worked fine for a few days and now it's doing it again.

After searching it sounds like I am in Limp Home mode, but I don't know why. I'll check my fuse box and the fusible relay. Anything else that may be the problem?

I had the transmission serviced at teh dealer about 3 weeks ago.

 

[AZ Jeff]

Did you check for any codes that would be thrown when the CE light came on?

 

[Double Down]

Sorta going through the same thing right now,

Check this post:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12575&highlight=tcm

And mine:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=31394&highlight=tcm


BUT the first thing I have found out to do is check your transmission fluid level. Meaning, run the engine for several minutes, put it in neutral and check it 3 times while running. When's the last time you had it flushed and filled? Since you have a 97, make daaamn sure the dealer put Dexron III/Mercon in your transmission, that's what needs to be in there, don't let them tell you different. Per "Yukon's" post:

As for the fluid, the AW4 takes Dexron III/Mercon. I went to the dealer and asked for it, and they had to SPECIAL ORDER IT!! At first, they looked at me like I was from Mars when I refused to buy the ATF+3. They made an off-handed comment that their overhead lines in the maintenance bay had Dexron/Mercon available, but they don't make a point of putting it in the AW4's. When they top off an AW4, they use what every other Chrysler tranny uses - ATF+3. Unfortunately, the AW4 is a Japanese transmission that predates Chrysler acquiring Jeep. So that just adds to the confusion. The parts guy looked up the number in the owner's manual ( #4773590 ), and yes, indeed, that is a valid part number to get Mopar Dexron III/Mercon ATF. A technician looked up the service info on the XJ, and said the Xj 4.0L/Auto (AW4) didn't specify ATF+3 as a suitable substitute. (And yet, I get the impression they're going to keep on putting ATF+3 in the AW4's)

Also, could be a TCM failure, TPS failure, etc so do a search on here for those and you will find out how to check them and all your fuses to make darn sure.

Also, supposedly below are the most likely culprits of transmission issue, each of which can probably be fixed either by you or by a local mechanic for under $100 (http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html):

Incorrect transmission fluid (cost: $40-60) - most common problem!
Solenoid pack (cost: about $60-$150 plus labor. May just be clogged.)
Computer needs retraining (cost: time)
Computer firmware needs upgrade (cost: Chrysler dealer should do this for free; may be up to $200)
Incorrect filter used
Loose electrical connection (cost: time)
Leaking seals (cost: rebuilding)

Good luck and keep us posted.

Chris

 

[basalt51]

Thats alot of info. Thanks. Lookin at the bill for the service they charged me for Dexron ATF, so hopefully they actually used the right stuff.

 

[Double Down]

Call and ask them if that is Dexron III/Mercon or just Dexron ATF. Big difference.

Chris

 

[basalt51]

Also just checked the fluid. It's a little over the MAX line at normal temps. Fluid was red.

I tired looking in the fuse box for these:

check in this order
Fliud level.
Transmission computer fuse. (fuse box.)
Transmission computer fusible link (under passenger side dash (at least on my 88 and 94 models))

But I didn't know what was what. Where is the trans comp fuse and the fusible link? I'm at work so I can't check my Haynes. Think a 60 mile commute is a problem?

 

[basalt51]

Ok, so I finally read through those linked posts and read my own codes.

I'm getting Code 45, which searching here people have said it means a Low battery or alternator output.

From Go Jeeps website:

45 Trans temperature/ Governor pressure voltage out of range. Less than 1.55 or above 3.73volts for temperature and less than .1 or above 4.89 volts. Trans temp. to high or low. OD switch input too low for more than 5 mins.

So I'm going to guess my Trans Temp/ Governor or the OD switch went out and my tranny is in limp mode?

 

[Double Down]

I just posted my results, but figured they might help you also:

party1: WooooooooooooooooooooHooooooooooooooooo!

Okay, so I went outside now that I knew exactly where the TCM was and unplugged that bad boy. Let my battery disconnect for about 5 minutes and turn the key for 30 secs to get rid of any memory.

Turned that bad boy back on and BAM! all the gauges worked, the rpm's worked...everything. Then the test came, I put it in the "1/2" gear and everything was perfect. Drove it around for awhile in manual mode and no issues.

So what is crazy is that somehow the TCM was actually affecting all the gauges on the instrument panel to some degree? How can that be?

So tomorrow I will take the XJ in to get a transmission flush and fill and then install the new TCM module.

Of course, since I was feeling pretty sweet :laugh3: I decided to figure out why my air conditioning wasn't working...figured that out and now I have ice cold air.

I will let you all know how the TCM module replacement goes, but as of right now I still want to thank everyone for their help...can not tell how much I appreciate it.

Thanks,

Chris

Let me know if I can help. That TCM module is right above the accelerator. Just unplug it and see if it changes anything. Also make sure to undo your battery cable for a while (follow my instructions up top) to clear all the codes and to see if you get any new ones.

Chris

 

[basalt51]

Cleared the codes and no change. Still got Code 45. Also then unplugged the TCM and it drove very differently. Manual only and no shifting. Only thing that was similar was that the TC didn't lock-up. Then of course I got Code 66 as well as 45.

The transmission still feels like it is shifting great except that the torque converter isn't locking.

Again anyone know what causes Code 45 on 97+?

 

[basalt51]

Uppp!!

don't know what to check next. No one knows what code 45 means?

 

[jneary]

check your reciept and see what kind of fluid they used when the trans was flushed.

 

[Double Down]

Ditto what J said, make SURE to look on the back of your owner's manual and it will tell you exactly what goes in your Jeep "Dexron III/Mercron" and don't let them put anything else in there. I had to argue with Valvoline a bit about this, but when they saw the owner's manual and heard it wasn't a Chrysler Tranny, they agreed.

You can not drive in the auto position when in limp home mode, all you have is the 1/2 gear and 3rd and reverse. Are you saying that even in 1/2 gear and 3rd gear it is not locking up and moving forward?

I know it sounds stupid but unplug your battery for the night and plug it back in the morning. Check every single fuse to make sure they aren't blown, just in case. Then run it and see if you get the check engine light again and see if it throws the same code.

This all happened after the flush and fill right or did ever happen before?

Chris

 

[Darkmage]

Ok, so I finally read through those linked posts and read my own codes.

I'm getting Code 45, which searching here people have said it means a Low battery or alternator output.

From Go Jeeps website:


So I'm going to guess my Trans Temp/ Governor or the OD switch went out and my tranny is in limp mode?

Most quick oil change places will stick a hose down the fill tube for the tranny and suck out the fluid...... in doing so it is possible that the tube may have damaged some wiring or connecter on the valvebody.
That is one reason most auto makers are making vehicles without dipstick tubes...... 2nd reason is dexron 5
I have never had a case where dex 3 and dex 5 were interchanged so i don't know how the trans would react but not having the corrsct fluid is never good
If not you should look at the connecter on the trans ...... check it out and look at the pins... look for any corrosion on the pins or anything that would cause a high resistance condition in the circuit.
It would help if you had a pin out of the trans connecter so you could check the trans temp circuit resistance with a good quality multi meter also you could check the od switch
If your od switch is shorted and the tcm is getting a constant signal that would also cause this.

The tcm controls all shift solenoids and converter lock up so if it isn't connected it can't lock up the converter...... the flip side if the converter is locked up all the time the truck will stall alot and feel like it is a briggs 3 horse.

 

[basalt51]

check your reciept and see what kind of fluid they used when the trans was flushed.

they charged me for Dexron ATF. It was a full tranny service at the dealership. I'm not sure if that means they flushed it or not.

Are you saying that even in 1/2 gear and 3rd gear it is not locking up and moving forward?

I know it sounds stupid but unplug your battery for the night and plug it back in the morning. Check every single fuse to make sure they aren't blown, just in case. Then run it and see if you get the check engine light again and see if it throws the same code.

This all happened after the flush and fill right or did ever happen before?

Chris

The jeep drives just fine, except that I know the torque converter isn't locking up. In evey gear the RPMs are a few hundred over what they normally are. Usually it's pretty obvious when the TC locks and the RPMs drop. That's just not happening.

This had never happened before the service, which was performed 2 weeks or so before the problem started so I don't know if the two are related.

I have never had a case where dex 3 and dex 5 were interchanged so i don't know how the trans would react but not having the corrsct fluid is never good
If not you should look at the connecter on the trans ...... check it out and look at the pins... look for any corrosion on the pins or anything that would cause a high resistance condition in the circuit.
It would help if you had a pin out of the trans connecter so you could check the trans temp circuit resistance with a good quality multi meter also you could check the od switch
If your od switch is shorted and the tcm is getting a constant signal that would also cause this.

Thanks for the info Darkmage (Everquest?, DAoC?). I need to confirm with the dealer what fluid they used. I'm already pissed at them for other reasons so I've been avoiding dealing with them again.

Is there only one connector on the transmission? Is the OD switch someting I can check and do you know where it is?



Thanks again everyone.

 

[basalt51]

OK, so I just spoke with the service department and the lady I spoek with was't very techinical, but she said they put Dexron in it. Not ATF +4 like the new vehicles and she said it isn't Dexron III/Mercon, so I HOPE thats the problem.

 

[Double Down]

Couple things, how many miles on your XJ?

Wrong fluid could definately make a difference. MAKE them put in the right stuff and show them the back of the owners manual. Make sure they get rid of the other stuff in there with a complete flush and fill.

The other issues could be the solenoids in the transfer case, which I have heard are easy to check and replace, but can be expensive.

Chris (Double Down)

 

[basalt51]

130k. Gotta get this fixed for the week long Rubicon trip next week!! Wheeling for a week with a tranny that don't lock-up can't be a good thing I figure. Callin the dealer now to discuss the situation.

 

[basalt51]

Anybody know what color dexron ATF +4 is? I called the dealer again and they said again that atf +4 was put in the truck. I told him dexron III/mercon is what the AW4 requires, He asked if I was having a problem, I said yes, he put me on hold and came back 10 seconds later and told me "oh wait, we put dexron III/mercon in it".

So my question is is dexron ATF +4 a different color? I know whats in my tranny is reddish.

EDIT: I just talked to the parts department and he immediately told me it requires ATF +4, maybe atf +3 but he only carries atf +4. I asked him if that was the same thing as dexron III/mercon he said no. I asked him what I should put in my tranny and he said if the manual says Dexron III/mercon then use that. Duh.

 

[Jeff-97XJ]

Reading this thread, I might have something to add-

THe code 66 sounds familiar to me.

There are 3 solenoids in the AW4 transmission.
1 is for 1-2 gears
2 is for 3-4 gear
3 is for lockup.

I had the Check engine light come on once and if I remember correctly it was the #3 solenoid.

I got the #3 solenoid replaced and all was well again.

Hope this helps-

Jeff-97XJ

 

[basalt51]

Thanks Jeff. Code 66 was the one I got when I unplugged the TCM. The one I am getting regularly is code 45.

How costly/time consuming was getting the #3 solemoid replaced?