Those of you with rear shocks through the floor

[northwestxj]

Looking to maybe mount my rear shock on top of my leaf spring plates like many do, but am worried about axle wrap. I currently have a OME leaf pack with a leaf added for about 4" of lift. It's a pretty soft pack. I have a little axle wrap right now but nothing too bad.

My question is, for those of you running your rear shocks through the floor, how much worse did axle wrap get? I don't really want to build a traction/ladder bar as of now...

 

[whooprunner]

If you run a 9/10 leaf deaver or national spring and angle your shocks forward a little bit it will help reduce axle wrap. There are very few in JeepSpeed that run a traction bar. The only one I know of is the FullTraction jeep.

-randy

 

[northwestxj]

If you run a 9/10 leaf deaver or national spring and angle your shocks forward a little bit it will help reduce axle wrap. There are very few in JeepSpeed that run a traction bar. The only one I know of is the FullTraction jeep.

-randy

Ya I'm hoping to not have to buy a new spring pack though. Not a bad idea to angle the shocks forward at the top, how much angle works well though? Seems like with having forward angle the shocks wouldn't dampen/work as well as straight up and down...

 

[I Beamed Jeep]

I ran the same set up you speak of with no problems. I even cut the add-a-leaf down a little at both ends at one point to get that pack to move a little more no problems. You want the shocks to be 90 degrees to the leaf pack at bump.

 

[whooprunner]

Ya I'm hoping to not have to buy a new spring pack though. Not a bad idea to angle the shocks forward at the top, how much angle works well though? Seems like with having forward angle the shocks wouldn't dampen/work as well as straight up and down...

Quite right, the shocks won't dampen as well as straight up and down. When tilted forward, the shock shaft travel from the up and down movement of the spring would be less and would require a stiffer valving to compensate. By tilting the shock forward, the shock will help absorb the rotational force coming off the axle at inital acceleration.

 

[Loose_Nuts_Enterprises]

You can cut down an old main leaf, and run it from the center pin to the front, on top of the leaf pack. Sort of a 'half leaf' on top of the pack. This will give some good resistance to spring wrap, without changing the spring rates too much.

 

[northwestxj]

Awesome, looks like I will probably start in on this project soon. Thanks for the help guys.

I had also heard that if the shock bar is tied into just the floor that eventually it starts to fatigue the floor and the whole back of the jeep. That the floor wants to be pushed up and the frame wants to go with it. Does this take quite a bit of abuse?

Essentially, will I be fine with just building a shock bar and not tying it into a cage? My rig sees about 80% slow stuff and 20% go-fast (which still isn't as fast of stuff as most prerunner rigs).

 

[I Beamed Jeep]

My xj bed cage lol held up fine with 4 grab points 2 of which were off the the paper thin wheel wells which I wouldn't do. I like were this ZJ's grab points are this design would be strong for you, But for an XJ mount the shocks straight. Just my .02

 

[whooprunner]

Here's the JeepSpeed thread on the topic.

http://www.jeepspeed.net/smf/index.php?topic=3575.15

 

[GrimmJeeper]

I had also heard that if the shock bar is tied into just the floor that eventually it starts to fatigue the floor and the whole back of the jeep. That the floor wants to be pushed up and the frame wants to go with it. Does this take quite a bit of abuse?

Mine was tied into the top of the frame, with plates welded to the floor, the top of the frame rails (we cut the floor out and dropped the plates almost flush with the floor) and welded to the sides of the rails from underneath. From the looks of my XJ now, the entire bar was yanking upwards on the floor and frame, and tweaked the hell out of the body. first the floor started to buckle around the stock shock crossmember underneath, then all the spotwelds pulled out around the rear hatch opening, then this happened:

(click for fullsize)
The floor started to tear around the foot plates.

Next this happened:

(click for bigger pic)


That is the drivers side rear wheel well, just below the door handle for the rear door. That crack started as a tiny pinch and crack in the paint, and within an hour or so it looked like that. by the time the weekend was over i could fit a cigarette butt in there. That crack runs from the frame rail inside the wheel well, out and around, into the interior, and inside to the bolt that holds the rear seat back in at the bottom. the drivers side is the worst but the passenger side is about 70% as bad.

It is also separating here, between the rear window and the rear door on both sides under the rain gutter:

I am NOT easy on my jeep, at all. I beat it hard, without a cage and without frame stiffeners, so this was bound to happen anyway. But I think the shock hoop definitely helped it along quite a bit. the entire rear half of the XJ is loose, you can grab the rear bumper and move it up and down and watch the cracks separate. If you go easy on your XJ in the whoops and dont point it in one direction and floor it for a few miles like i do you should be fine. I won't be putting a hoop in my new XJ without a full cage though.

Hope this helps some, the unibody is just too weak to hold up to the abuse by itself. when you stiffen one part up the stress just moves on to the next weakest link.

Oh my transmission tunnel has about a 9" crack in it just ahead of the rear seat support too, don't have a pic of that one. it's big enough to put a finger through :gee:

 

[dirtbagXJ2103]

my hoop has the front landing points welded over the frame where the under the back seat area is on a down slope, i think this might help spread the load. i figure if i fold my jeep it has 3 sections rear middle front, i'm just overlaping rear and middle. but i'm not a racer they know the tricks. also i jump my jeep daily on the way home.

 

[GrimmJeeper]

Mine is tied in there as well, as far forward as it can be and still have the rear seat functional - this was my only stipulation when putiing the hoop in.

 

[dirtbagXJ2103]

i have a rhino seat my deal was driver and passenger then i got the crazy idea "why have just one girl when i can have 2" so i added the 3rd seat. and i had the rhino seat sitting around. if you run a cage first it should be easier to add big shocks and keep the rear seat.

 

[1708Race]

My humble suggestions...
To help control axel wrap, cut doun your U straps and re drill for a 7/16 bolt and a piece of 3/4" tubing to act as a roller. Be sure to leave about 1/4" of space between the roller and pack at ride height. Our Deaver packs have 2 in front and 2 in the rear. Do all 4. We were actually getting more wrap on dcell and hard landings. This cured the problem.

Your shock hoops need to tie to structure. At the front, run a plate under the rear seat and pick up the seatbelt bolts. If you can, run a bung and pick up the main eye bolt. At the rear, go through the floor to a bung on the rear shackle. All structure points.