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Sweet, more taxes...

Everyone already has access to high-speed internet - even if you live out in the sticks. You can get it the same way you get your DirectTV....HughesNet is one of these ISPs I believe....

Unless the gov't is forcing you to live in the sticks, I don't see how they can "force" everyone else to pony up so that you can have things you "deserve" in spite of the CHOICE that YOU made...
 
Everyone already has access to high-speed internet - even if you live out in the sticks. You can get it the same way you get your DirectTV....HughesNet is one of these ISPs I believe....

Unless the gov't is forcing you to live in the sticks, I don't see how they can "force" everyone else to pony up so that you can have things you "deserve" in spite of the CHOICE that YOU made...
I just use a wireless device through Verizon. Hughes Net is stupid expensive. All of the satellite providers are for internet.

Some of us in the sticks aren't in the sticks at all, just over an arbitrary line. For me, that line is 1/4 mile away. It's a road that no one will come past. Irritating, but I also learned a valuable lesson regarding researching your area before buying a house.
 
My parents live in an area that used to be like that. Up until 2 years ago, they couldn't get DSL at their house, still can't get cable (but don't care, DTV is better). My brother uses the same Verizon wireless setup that you probably use - he lives outside of Indiana, PA in the "sticks" :)

I know of quite a few people in the Mesilla Valley area of Las Cruces who use satellite internet...always thought it was interesting...
 
Not accurate.

Land-based carriers are not going to invest millions of dollars in infrastructure to deliver high-speed internet to remote users at the same price per Mb as they do to a densly populated user base because the ROI is not there.
The only way to do this and make prices "uniform" is to make the folks in densly populated areas pay more per Mb to offset the costs of laying fiber to more rural areas, where there are fewer users paying for service.

As I attempted to explain in previous posts, capitalism isn't about being "fair", or forcing businesses to provide like services to everyone.

If the legislation is passed which allows FCC to force land-based carriers to expand their infrastruction, as you've described, their expenses will exceed their revenue they will be forced out of business by government regulation and mandates.

This is called Socialism.


Thanks to Capitalism, there is an ever-expanding market of wireless high-speed internet providers that are targeting the rural market segment where wired infrastructure is lacking.


Supply and demand. If more people want to pay for it, the supply will increase.


Change the information highway to real pavement....Why should the folks who live in a densely populated area have to pay taxes to provide the pavement out to the property of someone who decided to live in the BF of nowhere? Is my electrical rate the same even though the extra poles and single strand (ok three) of copper provides electricity for just him and his family? Let's face it, some things just need to be socialized for the common good. Like roads. The internet is not an essential, it is a luxury.
 
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I just use a wireless device through Verizon. Hughes Net is stupid expensive. All of the satellite providers are for internet.

Some of us in the sticks aren't in the sticks at all, just over an arbitrary line. For me, that line is 1/4 mile away. It's a road that no one will come past. Irritating, but I also learned a valuable lesson regarding researching your area before buying a house.

I'm getting 15Mb down on Comcast.

My BIL is in the same boat as you, Darky. He lives about 5 blocks from me and Comcast has a drop 2 blocks away from his home. He lives on a dead-end street in an older subdivision and since there are only a couple of houses that would potentially puchase service, Comcast cannot cost-justify a build.....unless he wants to cough up the $200K in build costs on his own.:wierd:

He uses DirectTV and a wireless card for internet.


FWIW, I've been employed in the telecom industry since 1996 and currently work for the 4 largest CLEC in the US.
 
Change the information highway to real pavement....Why should the folks who live in a densely populated area have to pay taxes to provide the pavement out to the property of someone who decided to live in the BF of nowhere? Is my electrical rate the same even though the extra poles and single strand (ok three) of copper provides electricity for just him and his family? Let's face it, some things just need to be socialized for the common good. Like roads. The internet is not an essential, it is a luxury.

Let's take it a step further, Tom. Why should working, tax-paying US citizens be taxed additionally to pay for luxury items such as high-speed internet and cable TV for those who collect welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, abuse drugs/alcohol and do so for generations?

Here's a fresh spin on Social Justice:
Work for what you get, stand on your own feet and take responsibility for your own actions and choices.

Our Constitution was written to provide everyone with the same rights and privileges, there are not guarantees of success.....that, is up to you.
 
The internet is not an essential, it is a luxury.

I disagree to an extent.

The phone was once considered a "luxury". Now you would be hard pressed to conduct your life without it. Cell phones were once considered a luxury, but again, you would be hard pressed to go about your business without one.

It has been recognized that if you want to find a job in this day in age, and it is anything more difficult than digging a ditch, you need the internet to find it. All Federal, State, and Private job postings that you used to travel down to Job Service to find, are now in posted on the internet.

News? Internet. Current Weather? Internet.

The darn thing is an up to the date World Book + set right at your fingertips.

It is so important that it would be hard to find a school all the way down to the elementary school level that does not have their kids using the Internet to research school subjects as a replacement for buying more and more up to date texts ( a large expense at any school ).

Sites like this one are useful to repair your Jeep, so it could be said that NAXJA is partially a MOTORs manual, and a reference.

It depends on content, but you could translate that to your road analogy.
Roads are used for business, learning, and pleasure, but they are are a monopoly of the 'State'. Same with phones up to the breakup of Ma Bell (and one could argue effectively that that never happened because AT&T owns the backbone. and has bought back a number of it's break off company(s)).

XJEEPER, I don't think one can continue to sensationalize the subject by saying that subsidizing the Internet would just benefit "those who collect welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, abuse drugs/alcohol and do so for generations". There are honest hard working people in my State who can't even afford a phone bill, and we have to assist with their heat in the Winter. My Mom relies partially on Medicare, She is 76 and still works for an income. I don't look at those fees as benefiting a bunch of freeloaders, but rather those who but for the grace of God go I.

One can look at these things as Socialism, and decry anything that smacks of State regulation, or one can look at that as a benefit to society as a whole and part of the price we need to pay so that all of us can move forward.

There are two basic sides to this, and they are polar opposites. One says 'Why not, it's good for society'. They other says 'No! It's SOCIALISM!!!! we can't go down that road'. The problem with the later argument is that you already live in a highly regulated society. What would happen to the price of food if the Fed decided tomorrow not to subsidize food production? How about the price of fuel if the Fed did not keep a national reserve? What about money... do you think the economy would be better or worse if there was no oversight of Banks and the Stock Exchange?

About 15 years back, a petition was circulated to get rid of our septic systems and to get the City to pay to install a sewer line with the main line in our area. My personal cost was going to be around $4K. I signed that petition even though my septic was fine. Why? Because other folks in my neighborhood had failed septics and were pumping weekly. Now I could have said 'let capitalism take care of it; they will simply have to install a better septic system on their dime, I'm OK'. But no, I believed (and still believe) that it was better for the entire neighborhood if everyone had the same service.

Ron
 
Ron, you twist my words to support your position. The abuses to the existing social programs are byproducts of poor management. To you position, I oppose the regulations that have become a burden on our society, and you seem to easily gloss over the fact that our county is BROKE to the tune of $1,200,000,000,000,000 today and growing every hour, due to gross mismanagement and exploitation of Social programs.

I pay taxes to support a goverment run public library which also provide free high-speed internet. Show me in the US Constitution where High Speed internet is a God-given right. Or Healthcare.......

Reality check time........we are already "down that road" labeled Socialism. Time to turn the car around.

If you can show me one program that the US Goverment manages efficiently and supports itself, we might find some ground to agree on.

Your perspective is in direct alignment with the Marxist belief that "the ends always justifies the means".

Using your neighborhood sewer system to justify Socialism is loaded with irony......
 
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Here's a handy chart.

Where do you live? A state recieving federal welfare...er money or a state providing more than recieving?

I found it interesting that the states normally considered to be 'cut the taxes' states receive more federal aide (except TX & FL of course) than they contribute. Why does RI even bother?


Just stirring the pot....
 
Here's a handy chart.

Where do you live? A state recieving federal welfare...er money or a state providing more than recieving?

I found it interesting that the states normally considered to be 'cut the taxes' states receive more federal aide (except TX & FL of course) than they contribute. Why does RI even bother?


Just stirring the pot....

Must be getting tired Tom........relative to the topic, your point is what?
 
Yeah I am. It's the bickering, and yes I am a contributor to it.

The bottom line to me is taxes are what keeps this country's infrastructure together. Do I like paying them...No. I understand the necessity of the tax. You are well aware that I support a well educated & healthy population because I believe that creates a strong workforce. The money needs to come from somewhere, can't have that strong work force without the taxes to educate them.

If it wasn't for taxes paying for the interstate system it would take me three days to come see you in UT. :wave:
 
:wave:
I don't see the point of continuing the discussion myself. It's like listening to AM talk radio, and FM Left radio. They both give me a headache because reason has gone on vacation in favor of sensationalism and bad politics.

Interesting link BTW...

Ron
 
:wave:
I don't see the point of continuing the discussion myself. It's like listening to AM talk radio, and FM Left radio. They both give me a headache because reason has gone on vacation in favor of sensationalism and bad politics.

Interesting link BTW...

Ron

Enjoy the bliss...... peace out.
 
Yo Ron,
Seems like exactly what I said could happen.....is happening.


Cass Sunstein advocates that the Government’s stealth infiltration should be accomplished by sending covert agents into “chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups.” He also proposes that the Government make secret payments to so-called “independent” credible voices to bolster the Government’s messaging



 
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I'll make this simple for those of us who've spent time on the short bus.....

Cass Sunstien heads the Office of Information and Regualtory Affair-appointed by Barack Obama. He advocates the US government hiring individuals to pose as "independant" voices to press forward the government's agenda. (hmmmm........financial Bailouts of Private industry, Healthcare, Global Climate Change, Cap and Trade, Green Jobs ring any bells?)

This is paid endorsement of policy that may be otherwise unpopular with We the People and in order to gain support, the US Government hires individuals to promote and popularize their agenda.
 
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I am not a covert agent, heck I am not an agent. Though it seems like a good stategy, deceptive operations, bogus intel, etc.
 
It's worked for Lenin, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Chavez, Castro, Hussein, Bin Laden.......

Lenin had a good run. The foundation for 70 years.
Mao had a good run. Softening a little, still a toletarian society.
Stalin had a good run. Carried on lenin's legacy.
Hitler <- Failed. Does he belong in this group?
Chavez <- Failed
Castro has a good run and it looks like it is continuing.
Hussein had a so-so run and then did stupid stuff.
Bin-Laden is still on the run.
 
Boehner slams FCC for 'takeover of Internet'


By Tony Romm

“The success of the Internet is a perfect example of what happens when entrepreneurship and innovation are allowed to flourish, but today’s decision will undermine its success and hurt our economy," the GOP leader continued.

"The American people are asking ‘Where are the jobs?’ They aren’t asking for yet another government takeover that imposes new job-killing federal regulations and puts bureaucrats in charge of the Internet.

The FCC, however, has explicitly sought to shed any mention that hope to regulate or takeover the Internet. Rather, the commission has framed its efforts as an attempt to store the same rules and procedures that were in place before a federal court in April invalidated the FCC's ability to regulate broadband providers.

Two FCC officials on a conference call with reporters on Thursday declined to address Boehner's criticisms directly. They also noted that full implementation of Genachowski's proposal -- including rules that would safeguard open Internet -- was still some time away.


But Boehner on Thursday implored lawmakers to act preemptively to stop the FCC from encroaching too much on private business.

"Congress should listen to the American people and act to reverse this unnecessary federal government power grab,” he said.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...8758.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

The question is how heavy a hand will the regulatory touch be," he said.

"We don't know yet, so the devil is in the details. The network operators have to be able to treat some traffic on the Internet different than other traffic—most people agree that web video is different than an email to grandma. You have to discriminate in some fashion."

UBS analyst John Hodulik said the cable companies and carriers were likely to fight this in court "for years" and could accelerate their plans to wind down investment in their broadband networks.

"You could have regulators involved in every facet of providing Internet over time. How wholesale and prices are set, how networks are interconnected and requirements that they lease out portions of their network," he said.
 
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