Stiff Steering '01 XJ

[bobinyelm]

Recently picked up a very clean '01 XJ (94k miles-zero off road use) and compared to my '96 XJ, the steering feels "stiff." Not "hard" like w/ manual steering (though it does take more effort to steer), but it doesn't have a "live" feel like even manual boxes have, rather with what I would describe as friction. The steering is "stiff" and "dead."

It's as if something is adjusted too tight in the steering box, but unlike when you DO overadjust the box too tight, the friction stays the same regardless of steering angle (it's not just stiff at center where the worm is ground tighter).

I understand the DC changed the box at some point to MAKE the steering stiffer to make the XJ feel "heavier," but:
1) I cannot confirm this
2) If it's true, I don't know what year they did this

I DO know that many reviews by the press mentioned "stiff steering" and poor return-to-center (due more to stiffness than lack of caster) on the newer XJs.

Yes, and I did grease all the fittings, and though I have not disconnected the steering linkages to see if something is binding, I suspect it's "in the box."

Anyone know when they changed the steering feel, and how far back I'd have to go to buy a rebuilt box to swap into my '01?

Last question-without getting deep into it, the steering box is rather buried in the XJ. How long to change one?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Otter]

hey Bob -

can't tell you when the boxes were changed by DC, but can confirm that my 01 was the same way. i swapped the box out for one from PSC (heavier duty model) and the change was significant - real "power" steering. time it took to swap out...2 hours or so. really not much to it. tricky part is getting the right amount of droop on the axle to pull the pitman arm off - tends to bind if you're at the wrong angle. probly much easier/faster to pop the drag link off the pitman (use the pitman puller for that) and just remove the box w/ the pitman on it - easy enuff to pull the pitman off afterwards. i saw one write-up that included removing the electric fan...not necessary to do that. just use 18mm wrench to remove the fluid lines. i also used some rope tied around the box and then secured to the bumper when i removed the 3 bolts holding it in - that sucker is kinda heavy.

btw you can easily access the pitman adjustment nut by removing the electric fan...if you care to try that. happy hunting

 

[bobinyelm]

Thanks, Otter, for the reply.

I'd like to swap the box out not so much because the steering is "hard," but because it is dead and responseless.

I don't feel like there is much feedback from the road through it, in other words.

Would you say that beside reducing your steering effort, you now find the wheel giving you more feel of the road, and perhaps self-centers after a turn better?

I know this won't ever be an X-5 "Ultimate Driving Machine," but I hope it will be a little more pleasurable to drive.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Otter]

Bob -

i would not have called my stock steering "dead or responseless" - "heavy" was more like it, but it was not bad by any means, just stiffer. what you are describing sounds worse than my stock box performed. my stock box returned fairly well, but not completely, to center. new box returns faster/closer to center but not completely either. fyi i am running 6% castor and 1/8 toe-in, stock camber.

as far as feedback from the road, honestly i cant remember if the stock box was the same, so i dont want to give you bad info. maybe tell me what it is you are looking to "feel" and i can be of more help. i can tell you that the variable aspect is more pronounced with the PSC box. i.e. close to center the wheels repond less to steering input...as you turn farther the ratio "tightens".

hth, Otter

 

[bobinyelm]

Bob -

i would not have called my stock steering "dead or responseless" - "heavy" was more like it, but it was not bad by any means, just stiffer. what you are describing sounds worse than my stock box performed. my stock box returned fairly well, but not completely, to center. new box returns faster/closer to center but not completely either. fyi i am running 6% castor and 1/8 toe-in, stock camber.

as far as feedback from the road, honestly i cant remember if the stock box was the same, so i dont want to give you bad info. maybe tell me what it is you are looking to "feel" and i can be of more help. i can tell you that the variable aspect is more pronounced with the PSC box. i.e. close to center the wheels repond less to steering input...as you turn farther the ratio "tightens".

hth, Otter

I don't mean the '01 Cherokee responds differently to specific steering inputs (say 2" of wheel movement) differently than my '96, but that it feels like there is more friction when turning the wheel. The wheel WILL return to center, but it feels "dead" rather than springy and enthusiastic about returning to center. I strongly suspect it is not a front end setup problem, but a difference in the power steering system.

The '01 isn't "hard" to steer, but it does take more effort. For instance, you are not going to put one finger on the top of the wheel of the '01 and be able to move the wheel back and forth even an inch. You'd have to grip it and actually TURN it, though you can do it w/ your thumb and one finger gripping the rim of the wheel.

Perhaps it feels like the difference between running 10psi in the front tires ('01 XJ) vs running 35psi ('96) as far as how the steering feels.

Hard steering (like my Isuzu truck I have that doesn't have power steering) is different than my '01 XJ that the XJ feels like friction in the box (same regardless of steering wheel or front wheels position), where in the the Isuzu you feel you are fighting tire friction and caster to turn the wheel .

I looked at a parts book, and it says XJs through 1998 had one part #, and after than another part #. Hopefully, the ONLY difference is the "feel" built into the boxes.

Unfortunately the Core Charge for the "old" boxes is $200, but the newer ones is only $75. That means if I buy an older box I pay $200 core, but when I return my '01 box I only get $75 back. That puts the price at $155 (exchange) PLUS the $125 difference in core return credit, or $280, which is a LOT of money, especially if a new "old" box doesn't cure it!!

I went to www.carsteering.com, though and they show the SAME part number for ALL year Cherokees. Hmmm...
And they charge only $175 for a NEW box w/ no core required.

Bob

 

[Otter]

okay, sounds just like mine when it was stock too. so back to the original problem...

mayhaps a cheaper (albeit a gamble) way to get an older box is from the junkyard. if you could get one from a stock XJ that wasn't built up and used hard, maybe it would be in decent shape??? not the best idea i kno, but an idea nonetheless. and it may be a cheaper way to know for certain that your problem is the box...tho i think that's a given.

no doubt any way you go a NEW steering box is gonna put a heavy DING in your wallet and you certainly don't want to throw money at it guessing, so i would be hesitant about the box carsteering.com lists for all years without knowing more about it.

well you know that you have a choice of an older box or a high performance box to get the "cure" for sure. so it's up to you to decide. hey i did see that carsteering.com lists a high-performance steering box for $245, no core charge. but they don't give any description. maybe drop them a line about it. if it works it would be much cheaper than the $325 and up aftermarket hi-perf boxes...

 

[Ivan]

It could also be your power steering pump itself. I know when I replaced mine due to a whine it developed; one of the rebuilt ones I got was VERY stiff to turn at a dead stop. Made parallel parking a bitch. However, once I got momentum going on the road, it worked fine.

That pump lasted a day before I exchanged it for another, which definately worked much better....

 

[Blaine B.]

Durango steering boxes work in an XJ too, if you go to the junkyard.

 

[bobinyelm]

okay, sounds just like mine when it was stock too. so back to the original problem...

mayhaps a cheaper (albeit a gamble) way to get an older box is from the junkyard. if you could get one from a stock XJ that wasn't built up and used hard, maybe it would be in decent shape??? not the best idea i kno, but an idea nonetheless. and it may be a cheaper way to know for certain that your problem is the box...tho i think that's a given.

no doubt any way you go a NEW steering box is gonna put a heavy DING in your wallet and you certainly don't want to throw money at it guessing, so i would be hesitant about the box carsteering.com lists for all years without knowing more about it.

well you know that you have a choice of an older box or a high performance box to get the "cure" for sure. so it's up to you to decide. hey i did see that carsteering.com lists a high-performance steering box for $245, no core charge. but they don't give any description. maybe drop them a line about it. if it works it would be much cheaper than the $325 and up aftermarket hi-perf boxes...

The ONLY thing that stops me from getting an earlier salvage yard box is the labor to swap, not knowing if I am installing a problem box.

Some boxes look more "in the open," so maybe I am overestimating the hassles of R+R on the XJ.

I DID email www.carsteering.com to ask if their boxes are new/rebuilt (their site really doesn't say that I could find). Awaiting a reply...

I DO feel that my box may be acting like it was designed to (from your comments and those of reviewers), but that doesn't mean I LIKE it!

I've driven a Durango, and don't remember it felt stiff, so maybe that's one way of testing. Of course, my '96 XJ didn't feel stiff, either, so maybe getting a box for an older Cherokee would be fine as well (As I mentioned, some parts suppliers show a different number for '99-up XJs).

It's the kind of stiff steering my wife wouldn't complain about (or probably even notice) because she doesn't particularly like or expect "feeling" steering feedback through the wheel, while I really want it.
She just turns the steering wheel and points the vehicle.

You can almost steer w/ your eyes closed in a really well setup steering system, feeling the road camber through your hands. This box deprives you of that feedback. I know I am being fussy, but...

Bob

 

[DaveKerwin]

Bob,

My 2001 Cherokee is the SAME way. It has 80k miles on it, and the stiff/heavy steering had me a bit concerned. Mine even has a bit of a ridgid feel to it (I emphasize "bit'). It returns to center fine, but it does so with ridges (if that makes sense). I am at stock height, but I do have rather luggy mud/snow tires on it. The power steering fluid looked really dark, so I flushed, cleaned, and filled with fresh fluid. That helped only a minor amount, still heavy steering. I grabbed my buddy's keys to his 91 XJ, and I could turn the steering wheel with my pinkie, very "power" steetring.

I have considered if my problem may be a bad steering stabalizer, so I was gonna take it off and see how it steered, but I am skeptical that i the problem. I think it simply is the box used on these later model cherokees. If we all have the same problem, then that is the only logical conclusion, unless we all have terrible pumps, but that is not the case, mine turns fine even when the jeep is parked. HTH

 

[Blaine B.]

Isn't there some device that makes the power steering less sensitive at higher speeds?

Maybe it is doing that when it shouldn't?

 

[bobinyelm]

OK, here's what I know, and what I found out-

DC hyped that the last model years' Cherokees had some catchy name for "positive steering."

Every test on these later models by the press complained that their steering was stiff and had no feedback.

I ASSUMED that this was probably a design of the system in some way, so immediately thought of installing an early model year steering box, skipping what should have been OBVIOUS.

Today, I removed the electric fan and adjusted the steering box sector shaft play (hidden by the fan assembly). I ASSUMED that because my Cherokee had never been messed with (one-owner XJ owned by older Pastor who never adjusted anything, but had the car professionally serviced), the box adjustment was proper.

WRONG!!

I was able to loosen the adjuster screw a full 1/2 turn and STILL have zero play in the wheel, yet the steering effort/friction/stiffness has been reduced by 90%. Nice return to center without coming back reluctantly in "ridges" as you phrased it.

Evidently the "new and improved" steering was just that the worm was ground differently so a tight box adjustment doesn't just "bind" in dead center, but introduces friction pretty much anywhere close to center, and by adjusting their box to a set torque-to-rotate, it gave the Jeep a "rigid" feel that a lot of us dislike.

I suggest you just try what I did. It's quick, and I SHOULD have tried it first, but didn't because my XJ had not been messed with, so I ASSUMED (you know, "assume" makes an ":ass" out of "u" and "me") it wasn't a too-tight adjustment.

All you need is an 8mm socket to remove the electric fan screws, a 16mm socket to break the adjustment jam nut free, and an allen wrench to back the center screw off. After repositioning the screw, use a 16mm open end wrench to snug the jam nut while holding the screw steady so it won't mess up the adjustment you just made. Then snug it w/ the socket again.

I can steer with one finger now (as long as it is my strongest finger), but it isn't "too light." The car now has decent steering feel-not QUITE like the early cars, but nevertheless quite acceptable, and the price is right.

I am now a happy camper!

Bob

 

[Low Range]

Sounds like you guys have it figured out,i might try that on mine ,Thanks

One thing i did have happen on my CJ-5 was that the front axle u-joints were toast and made the sterring not come back to center ,hard to turn ,etc.
Just something to keep in mind but i dont think thats the problem on a newer rig , a lot of water,mud etc. could be though.

 

[scoobyxj]

Although you seem to have found the problem. I would still like to say that my box (2000) had a funny feel to it (lol) after I overheated the fluid. It stayed that way until I flushed the system. I'm only running 31. 10/50 BFG, KO's, and the day it happened the ambient air temp was probably only in the mid 70's. Also I was only running a loop at a truck show (not off roading). I have sense put synthetic fluid in it, and added a cooler in the mix.

 

[bobinyelm]

Although you seem to have found the problem. I would still like to say that my box (2000) had a funny feel to it (lol) after I overheated the fluid. It stayed that way until I flushed the system. I'm only running 31. 10/50 BFG, KO's, and the day it happened the ambient air temp was probably only in the mid 70's. Also I was only running a loop at a truck show (not off roading). I have sense put synthetic fluid in it, and added a cooler in the mix.

First thing I did, also, was to flush and refill w/ new power steering fluid, but in my case I didn't notice anything.

Also, to add to Low Range's comment, a bad (corroded) U-Joint in the steering shaft can cause a similar feel (return to center in jerky stages as the U-Joint binds), though that probably happens after a lot of wet/deep off-raod use.

Again, I was AMAZED that the factory would adjust gear boxes THAT tight, but it seems that it's part of the design of the new box to run tight zero clearance on the sector shaft.

www.carsteering.com said they WILL build old style boxes ($175, no core, free shipping) on request. Otherwise they sell ALL Cherokee boxes built to the new "tight" specs.

Bob
(Below is the text of the email they sent me):
Bob,
Thank you for visiting CarSteering!

We reverse interchange the later Cherokee boxes onto earlier versions because they are a direct bolt-in replacement and most people prefer the firmer steering feel.

If you want an earlier spec box with the lighter feel, we can build one for you but it would take a week or so to build one up.

Feel free to contact us with further questions or to order.

Thanks,
Scott

1-800-399-7845
[email protected]
www.CarSteering.com

 

[DaveKerwin]

OK, here's what I know, and what I found out-

DC hyped that the last model years' Cherokees had some catchy name for "positive steering."

Every test on these later models by the press complained that their steering was stiff and had no feedback.

I ASSUMED that this was probably a design of the system in some way, so immediately thought of installing an early model year steering box, skipping what should have been OBVIOUS.

Today, I removed the electric fan and adjusted the steering box sector shaft play (hidden by the fan assembly). I ASSUMED that because my Cherokee had never been messed with (one-owner XJ owned by older Pastor who never adjusted anything, but had the car professionally serviced), the box adjustment was proper.

WRONG!!

I was able to loosen the adjuster screw a full 1/2 turn and STILL have zero play in the wheel, yet the steering effort/friction/stiffness has been reduced by 90%. Nice return to center without coming back reluctantly in "ridges" as you phrased it.

Evidently the "new and improved" steering was just that the worm was ground differently so a tight box adjustment doesn't just "bind" in dead center, but introduces friction pretty much anywhere close to center, and by adjusting their box to a set torque-to-rotate, it gave the Jeep a "rigid" feel that a lot of us dislike.

I suggest you just try what I did. It's quick, and I SHOULD have tried it first, but didn't because my XJ had not been messed with, so I ASSUMED (you know, "assume" makes an ":ass" out of "u" and "me") it wasn't a too-tight adjustment.

All you need is an 8mm socket to remove the electric fan screws, a 16mm socket to break the adjustment jam nut free, and an allen wrench to back the center screw off. After repositioning the screw, use a 16mm open end wrench to snug the jam nut while holding the screw steady so it won't mess up the adjustment you just made. Then snug it w/ the socket again.

I can steer with one finger now (as long as it is my strongest finger), but it isn't "too light." The car now has decent steering feel-not QUITE like the early cars, but nevertheless quite acceptable, and the price is right.

I am now a happy camper!

Bob

Bob, thanks for the note!!!

Just a half a turn eh? arty:

 

[bobinyelm]

You could TRY more (maybe 1/6th turn of the Allen screw at a time) with test drives in between.

When you start getting some "play" at dead center you KNOW is in the gear box (because it has zero friction within the bounds of the play), you can stop, or go back 1/12th turn.

For me 1/2th turn seemed to give good steering feel w/ out any noticible play on center.

Bob

Bob

 

[Odarby]

After driving my 99 Cherokee for a few weeks now, the "stiff" steering began to annoy me. After driving my 06 Peterbilt @ 105K, 8 axle truck 200 to 500 miles a day (1 finger steering) I just thought it should be easier to drive my automatic Cherokee home at the end of the day. The 1/2 turn worked great and took about an hour. Just thought I would thank you Bob for solving the issue before I even got my Jeep. (seeings how this thread is over a month old)

Kudos Bob,...nice work

 

[bobinyelm]

<<Just thought I would thank you Bob for solving the issue before I even got my Jeep.>>

My pleasure.

I am amazed that Daimler Chrysler chose such a strange way (over tightening the play adjustment) to create a "heavy" feel of "stability" to their Cherokees, especially when the SAME model year Wranglers (that CAN use the same exact steering boxes) have the light-effort steering model installed (I also have a '00 Wrangler).

WHAT were they thinking?

Bob

 

[DaveKerwin]

Bob, one more quesiton for you: Did you notice after loosening it that the jeep wandered at all on the road? While my steering is really stiff right now, the jeep is SOLID straight on the highway, doesn't wander at all. Did anything change for you with this? I would rather deal with the stiff steering then it walking on me. TIA