Steering Issues. Need advice.

[MaxxXJ]

Bottom tie rod is fine they do pivot a little, everyone does alignments differently, apparently I'm the only one who runs a string from the hitch around the back tire and across the 2 points on the front tire. If it touches the front of the tire first it's tow'd out, if it hits the back first with a gap in front It's tow'd out OR the wheels aren't straight, I'd go to the other side and see how that side looks. If all visually looks within an 1/8 off ill run it I haven't pulled a tape measure unless I second guess myself.

As for steering wheel slop there should be none, you have something bad in your steering system. My last problem was the steering gearbox. Now it has next to no slop at all.

As for your poplin noise I would do your visual inspection, if all looks safe, for me it sounds like a bolt is shifting ever so slightly and popping, think about it, it's the same "pop" you hear when you first break loose a stubborn bolt, because it transfers to the body, I can bet it's a control arm bolt... Otherwise you'll find out what that noise is when it breaks

 

[Jhumphrey]

Bottom tie rod is fine they do pivot a little, everyone does alignments differently, apparently I'm the only one who runs a string from the hitch around the back tire and across the 2 points on the front tire. If it touches the front of the tire first it's tow'd out, if it hits the back first with a gap in front It's tow'd out OR the wheels aren't straight, I'd go to the other side and see how that side looks. If all visually looks within an 1/8 off ill run it I haven't pulled a tape measure unless I second guess myself.

As for steering wheel slop there should be none, you have something bad in your steering system. My last problem was the steering gearbox. Now it has next to no slop at all.

As for your poplin noise I would do your visual inspection, if all looks safe, for me it sounds like a bolt is shifting ever so slightly and popping, think about it, it's the same "pop" you hear when you first break loose a stubborn bolt, because it transfers to the body, I can bet it's a control arm bolt... Otherwise you'll find out what that noise is when it breaks

Guess I should clarify how I did things. I used this site http://jeep-xj.info/HowtoAlignment.htm to do the alignment. Im planning to get a proper alignment done, I just needed to get it home from the garage. The front is toe in 1/16" currently.

The pop I originally mentioned is no longer there, so it mustve been a tie rod.

As far as steering box, I replaced it with a JY Durango box. There was no front end damage to the box and it isnt leaking. Therefore, I feel the box is still good. The wheel turns smoother and has no play in it...until I start driving down the road.

 

[Jhumphrey]

I wanted to give an update. I had the XJ aligned at a reputable shop thats known for custom lifted offroad vehicles. Anyway, after I got it back, the jeep's steering wheel is straight and seems to have a shorter turning radius (which was expected, since its the durango box).

The wheel still has a slight "dead spot" in the steering, but I think this may be due to air in my PS line (the pump was replaced when I put the durango box on). I have driven it about 10 miles since the alignment and other than that, the steering seems fine. I think the steering is as tight as its going to be given that it isnt R&P steering.

 

[Jhumphrey]

AHHHHHH It's back! :gonnablow

So tonight was the first night that I was able to really put some mileage in the XJ since I had my alignment done. When I first got it back from the shop, the steering wheel was basically straight (there was a little canter, but nothing big). I drove it a total of 7 miles that night (from the shop to my house) and it sat parked until tonight when I chose to put a new steering stabilizer on.

So, off to the father-in-law's shop, which is about 20miles away. I noticed as I was driving the steering wheel kept needing to be crept to the left to keep the XJ going straight. If I moved the wheel to dead straight (based on the Jeep writing), the XJ stayed straight, for only a few moments, then Id have to "correct". If I took my hands off the wheel, it would stay straight unless an outside force moved it one way or another. Also, I'd have to turn the wheel fairly deep to negotiate an "average" sweeping curve (example: in my 2007 Expedition my hands would go from 9/3 to 8/2 for the curve. In the XJ my hands were between at 9/3 & 8/2 and they'd have to go to 6/12 for the turn).

This steering wheel canter issue is killing me. Im way to OCD about my cars and Im running out of options. At this point, I need my friends here at to talk me out of selling it....Im just tired of dealing with it. I've replaced a slew of parts and it still handles the same.

At this point, I have three options:

1) Pull the shafts and see if the housing is bent on the axle. Pretty much everything else has been changed. I'd also have to order extra seals in case I bust one. I've never pulled an axle before. Plus, another axle is quite a bit of change and may or may not fix it.

2) Drive it till something breaks or I end up in an accident. Seriously. The oversteer/understeer is this thing is ridiculous.

3) Cut my loses and get rid of XJ and hope for something better down the road. Seriously...Im just getting tired of chasing this ghost. Its been to 3 different mechanics and none have been able to diagnose what the cause is. I think I listed in an earlier post what all I've replaced...its pretty large.

:smsoap:

 

[Devilfrog]

Since there was front end damage ...

1. measure the distance from the forward rear spring mount (bolt) to the rear of the front lower control arms on both sides and compare.

2. measure the distance from the forward rear spring mount bolt to the front of the front lower control arms and compare.

if those match up ...

3. measure from the rear of the lower control arm to the axle mount of the front upper control arms and compare.

4. measure the upper control arm lengths and compare


If those show no issues then do the same but measuring across the frame (so measure from passenger rear spring mount to driver LCA mount).
when measuring it's best to measure bolt to bolt.

I'm thinking the mounts may have shifted and although the axle may be straight, the mounts may not so the axle sits canted. Also look at the control arm mounts and visually compare both sides to each other. The pass upper at the axle, and both lowers at the axle are prone to twisting in a collision. As are the arms themselves, but your lowers are now stronger than what they mount to (I have the same LCAs).

This is just how I'd go about it, I'm no expert so take my suggestion with a grain of salt.

 

[MaxxXJ]

AHHHHHH It's back! :gonnablow

So tonight was the first night that I was able to really put some mileage in the XJ since I had my alignment done. When I first got it back from the shop, the steering wheel was basically straight (there was a little canter, but nothing big). I drove it a total of 7 miles that night (from the shop to my house) and it sat parked until tonight when I chose to put a new steering stabilizer on.

So, off to the father-in-law's shop, which is about 20miles away. I noticed as I was driving the steering wheel kept needing to be crept to the left to keep the XJ going straight. If I moved the wheel to dead straight (based on the Jeep writing), the XJ stayed straight, for only a few moments, then Id have to "correct". If I took my hands off the wheel, it would stay straight unless an outside force moved it one way or another. Also, I'd have to turn the wheel fairly deep to negotiate an "average" sweeping curve (example: in my 2007 Expedition my hands would go from 9/3 to 8/2 for the curve. In the XJ my hands were between at 9/3 & 8/2 and they'd have to go to 6/12 for the turn).

This steering wheel canter issue is killing me. Im way to OCD about my cars and Im running out of options. At this point, I need my friends here at to talk me out of selling it....Im just tired of dealing with it. I've replaced a slew of parts and it still handles the same.

At this point, I have three options:

1) Pull the shafts and see if the housing is bent on the axle. Pretty much everything else has been changed. I'd also have to order extra seals in case I bust one. I've never pulled an axle before. Plus, another axle is quite a bit of change and may or may not fix it.

2) Drive it till something breaks or I end up in an accident. Seriously. The oversteer/understeer is this thing is ridiculous.

3) Cut my loses and get rid of XJ and hope for something better down the road. Seriously...Im just getting tired of chasing this ghost. Its been to 3 different mechanics and none have been able to diagnose what the cause is. I think I listed in an earlier post what all I've replaced...its pretty large.

:smsoap:

Well you should have a 30-90 day warranty with the alignment shop... Take it back to them tell them your issue

 

[Jhumphrey]

Since there was front end damage ...

1. measure the distance from the forward rear spring mount (bolt) to the rear of the front lower control arms on both sides and compare.

2. measure the distance from the forward rear spring mount bolt to the front of the front lower control arms and compare.

if those match up ...

3. measure from the rear of the lower control arm to the axle mount of the front upper control arms and compare.

4. measure the upper control arm lengths and compare


If those show no issues then do the same but measuring across the frame (so measure from passenger rear spring mount to driver LCA mount).
when measuring it's best to measure bolt to bolt.

I'm thinking the mounts may have shifted and although the axle may be straight, the mounts may not so the axle sits canted. Also look at the control arm mounts and visually compare both sides to each other. The pass upper at the axle, and both lowers at the axle are prone to twisting in a collision. As are the arms themselves, but your lowers are now stronger than what they mount to (I have the same LCAs).

This is just how I'd go about it, I'm no expert so take my suggestion with a grain of salt.

I will try to do this today when I get off from work. Let's say that something is twisted...what then? Replace the mounts?

Well you should have a 30-90 day warranty with the alignment shop... Take it back to them tell them your issue

I am planning to take it back down to them and see if they can figure out what the issue is. If I can (at least) get them to diagnose it, that would help my frustration.

 

[MaxxXJ]

Wait... Dude, check the steering linkage that ties into the gearbox from the steering collum, it has a rubber sleeve that is suppose to be vulcanized inside the steel outer sleeve, if it breaks loose it will allow it to grip some but it will slip and give you the impression it's out of alignment. Mine did this to me, it looks like a slip collar but it's not its suppose to be bonded together

Only fix is to get a JY or expensive new one...

Easiest way to tell from my expierence is to click the keys forward to unlock the collum and see if you can turn the wheel while the wheels stay in the Same place maybe spray some wd-40 on it to get it to slip easier

 

[Jhumphrey]

Wait... Dude, check the steering linkage that ties into the gearbox from the steering collum, it has a rubber sleeve that is suppose to be vulcanized inside the steel outer sleeve, if it breaks loose it will allow it to grip some but it will slip and give you the impression it's out of alignment. Mine did this to me, it looks like a slip collar but it's not its suppose to be bonded together

Only fix is to get a JY or expensive new one...

Easiest way to tell from my expierence is to click the keys forward to unlock the collum and see if you can turn the wheel while the wheels stay in the Same place maybe spray some wd-40 on it to get it to slip easier

Ill check this out soon. It very well could be the steering shaft. I think there are other forces at play as well. I took it back to the alignment shop and they checked it out. Everything is aligned, but he did notice that the pitman arm is "canting" (lack of a better word to describe it) as I turn the wheel. Basically, instead of solely moving side to side (as in left to right), it also moves about 1/16" "canted"...plus my JY durango box is leaking.

So, I need to replace the box with a new one. Im going to just order an OEM box and a new pitman arm as well to see if this fixes it. Otherwise, he said everything else was fine.

 

[old_man]

Ill check this out soon. It very well could be the steering shaft. I think there are other forces at play as well. I took it back to the alignment shop and they checked it out. Everything is aligned, but he did notice that the pitman arm is "canting" (lack of a better word to describe it) as I turn the wheel. Basically, instead of solely moving side to side (as in left to right), it also moves about 1/16" "canted"...plus my JY durango box is leaking.

So, I need to replace the box with a new one. Im going to just order an OEM box and a new pitman arm as well to see if this fixes it. Otherwise, he said everything else was fine.

If I understand what you are saying, the pitman shaft is wiggling as it turns. The shaft should only rotate and have no side to side movement. If it does, the bearings on the pitman shaft are shot. Make sure and watch the shaft, not the arm.

Beware of Autozone rebuilt steering gears.

 

[Jhumphrey]

If I understand what you are saying, the pitman shaft is wiggling as it turns. The shaft should only rotate and have no side to side movement. If it does, the bearings on the pitman shaft are shot. Make sure and watch the shaft, not the arm.

Beware of Autozone rebuilt steering gears.

Yes, the mechanic said I'd need to replace the box as soon as I could. I plan to purchase the box from O'Reilly.