Saggy roof supports part deux (with pics)

[BIGSLVRXJ]

Hey everybody, I posted up probably 6 months ago about the two main braces or supports on my roof sagging. Well I've had my headliner down doing some work up there and I was wondering if there is any permanent fix for these things. I took it to two body shops and neither of them gave me any suggestions except for buying a new roof with the supports already there and straight. Anyway here's the situation...

In the last picture, you can see where the braces are spotwelded in. I had one guy tell me if you could drill through the spot weld and put "new" braces in that would work. I dont understand how you would get them reattached or how you would get the old ones out and the new ones in. Some people I know have just filled the gap with expansion foam and called it a day but I need some way to get the braces back up to the roof because right now the OHC and headliner don't sit correctly up there. I was thinking of welding, but all that's going to do is pull the roof down to the braces. If anyone can give me anything to even try I'm willing to give it a shot...it's annoying having the roof pop at 65mph, especially with the headliner down. Thanks guys.
-Collin

 

[Ghost]

What happened? Did the braces fall in the center? If so why not reattach them with welds? If it is something else then maybe you could drill the spot welds out with a spot weld remover bit and then raise the braces to the roof and weld it all back up.

 

[IntrepidXJ]

mine looked like that too, before i cut the roof off in the back i would guess it's common, since they are really just glued up there

 

[xraydivr]

looks to me like the braces are ok that the roof has actualy warped "poped" up try putting some wt on the roof and se if it comes back down than you could pop a few welds across there instead of that adhesive or reglue.

 

[old_man]

My "new" rig had the same problem. I tried several things with no success. I tried the SEM panel adhesive with no luck. It didn't adhere well to the paint. I put a portapower between the floor and the crossmember. I cut a piece of wood to distribute the force. I sure thought it should have worked. I would have welded them up there but the roof had already been painted and didn't want to totally screw it up. In the end I finally got pissed and used closed end steel pop rivets through the roof from the top. It worked. I just touched up the heads with paint.

I don't like having the rivets up there, but I have to keep reminding myself that this is not a show rig.

 

[BIGSLVRXJ]

My "new" rig had the same problem. I tried several things with no success. I tried the SEM panel adhesive with no luck. It didn't adhere well to the paint. I put a portapower between the floor and the crossmember. I cut a piece of wood to distribute the force. I sure thought it should have worked. I would have welded them up there but the roof had already been painted and didn't want to totally screw it up. In the end I finally got pissed and used closed end steel pop rivets through the roof from the top. It worked. I just touched up the heads with paint.

I don't like having the rivets up there, but I have to keep reminding myself that this is not a show rig.

So when you riveted it, did it pull the roof down to the brace or did it actually take the brace back up? I'm not scared about the paint on the otherside because it looks like shat right now anyway (Maaco) so if that's an option I would be all over it. I just thought it would for sure pull the roof down to the braces instead of the vice versa.

Ya know I just went out and pushed it all the way down to the braces...I now am starting to wonder if the roof has "fallen upward" like xraydivr suggested. I assume there is supposed to be an angle to the XJ roof so the water will roll to the rain gutters...but I wonder if mine is up way more in the middle than it needs to be. So what was your situation like Old Man...did yours look like the roof had fallen down or had it been raised up? The other thing I noticed is that there is rust on the roof under the front one. Do I need to take care of this before I go shoving something in there or welding it?

 

[maine96xj]

but your ar bare metal dont worry about rivets... have you wleded much, i would recomend laying beads about an inch long every 3-4 with a mig on a low setting. test out the settings on scrap first just to see what will melt through and waht wont

 

[BIGSLVRXJ]

Here's a video of how far down the roof goes when I push on it, it pops around a lot. Might want to turn the speaker volume down too, it's loud.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1521378620
Let me know if anyone can't see it and I can post it up elsewhere, however I don't think you have to be a member to see it.

 

[dizzymac]

X2 on Old Man......"jack" the supports up to the roof as far as you can, the weld or rivet them to the supports. Should hold for a while.

 

[HossHoffer]

I had the same problem. I jacked it up like Tom did however I just used some structural epoxy to hold it in place. I hasn't moved or popped yet (cross my fingers) but I am accustomed to using epoxies in my work. Pop rivets would work great. Aviation type screws and nuts would work well also, like a 10/32 screw and self locking nut.

 

[maine96xj]

yea based on that vid i think you should start by welding the brace to the roof. then see what happens from there. do what old man said and hold it up with a piece of wood or something. spot weld, remove wood, then lay a bead

 

[BIGSLVRXJ]

I had the same problem. I jacked it up like Tom did however I just used some structural epoxy to hold it in place. I hasn't moved or popped yet (cross my fingers) but I am accustomed to using epoxies in my work. Pop rivets would work great. Aviation type screws and nuts would work well also, like a 10/32 screw and self locking nut.

So in your case did it pull the roof down when you epoxied it?

 

[tweakado]

As i see it the roof is curved and the beam is straight. How about jacking the middle up till it meets the roof and then use two jacks angled to each corners to create the bow again the weld that sucker. Do you know what i mean by the angle part middle jack then use two jack on each side from the farthist point and work in to the middle jack recreating the bow that matches the roof line and weld as you go. Hope this helps

 

[BIGSLVRXJ]

As i see it the roof is curved and the beam is straight. How about jacking the middle up till it meets the roof and then use two jacks angled to each corners to create the bow again the weld that sucker. Do you know what i mean by the angle part middle jack then use two jack on each side from the farthist point and work in to the middle jack recreating the bow that matches the roof line and weld as you go. Hope this helps

Yeah I know what you mean. I think I'm going to try taking it to one more body shop (since I don't have a welder) telling them to jack it all up flush with the roof and then have them weld both braces. I don't know what will happen exactly, I guess it may pull the roof down, but I think at this point it's worth it. Between having a headliner that doesn't fit right and a really loud popping at 55< mph I guess having a flat roof that is solid would be okay. I'll let you guys know what happens. And I REALLY appreciate all the help.
-Collin

 

[jeepnuts311]

i think this is caused by putting heavy shit on the roof, the sheetmetal pops back, but the support stays bent. why would the support sag from gravity? it wouldnt.

-Tim

 

[JeepDawg]

For some reason, I was thinking about this last night on my way home... I don't know if this would work, but what if you:

1) Cut the supports in the middle
2) Weld a small piece of metal (possibly using a bracket from an XJ in the junkyard) in the middle where you cut the supports - thereby making it a little longer
3) Then weld it to the roof.

You might even be able to bend the existing supports a little so they conform to the shape of your roof better.

Just my musings from last night..

 

[BIGSLVRXJ]

Well I took it to a body shop that a buddy of my Dad owns today. He was the first one that actually seemed honest to me. He said that all they need to do is use a porta power to get the braces back up to the roof, and use some really strong glue-ish/epoxy stuff on it. He said there will be almost no labor involved, but it's really spendy adhesive whatever it is (probably $50 or $60 worth I guess), however he told me it's stronger than what was up there stock. He also mentioned that he did a late 80s Suburban a while back that had been rolled, I guess it had 6 braces across the roof that were all down crushed down to the top of the doors. He said this glue stuff worked on it so that gave me new hope. He made a good point that the cause was probably from the jagoffs at Maaco standing on the roof while sanding/painting it. Anyway I'll let you guys know what happens and again, thanks for the help.

 

[tweakado]

i would discuss doing the jacking part with the body shop you choose. If you dont they are going to go the easiest route and charge you the most and the roof will just cave in because thats what the beams are caved. But by recurving and streatching the beam back into its original form or close you may still get some cave but not as much as you have now. good luck with it.

 

[HossHoffer]

So in your case did it pull the roof down when you epoxied it?

Hasn't yet. It requires a little prep work and some good solvent to clean with and sometimes a primer. I just used the structural epoxy that my son got from the Cadillac shop he worked in. The adhesive stuff works good but hav enough down time available to get it to set up right with your jacks still in place. Sometimes a day or two.