Renix steering gear box repair options

[Ecomike]

My output shaft, engine off, (no power steering) wobbles side to side, my 87 Wagoneer....when moving the steering wheel back and forth, side to side. Other than that and some sloop (which may be the same issue), it steers fine.

Old thread background, history.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1089629&highlight=renix+steering+gear+box

I have a used SG-box on the freeway-rolled & totaled jeep (gear box may be OK, not sure how to test it or verify that it not get internal damage in the accident, one wheel on the front axle was bent....) I am still pulling parts off of it.

I have the one I replaced (forget if it was leaking or had too much slop, I think it was leaking, or the PS pump was and we thought it was the gear box. It may have gotten flooded in the harvey flood a week ago.

I Think the other jeep body I have (has no interior of drive train, just mostly axles and body) may still have one in unknown shape.

The one that I need to replace on the 87 Wagoneer, is an Auto Zone POS rebuilt, and may have a lifetime warranty. I will be checking, but I have read bad stories here about theirs....

This is a stock DD rig, so need to upgrade.

Should I buy a rebuild kit and try to do the repairs? If so which kit and source?

Swap the POS for another at AZ? I would inspect the replacement for obvious issues first, this time, if that is possible.

Or should I spend the money and buy one from ?????

If so which brand-vendor should I go to.

Such fun dealing with this while dealing with Harvey flooded shop and house, and illness.

If I rebuild, which one should I rebuild, I am thinking the AZ POS one, since I know it still works fine. Guessing the output shaft bushing is bad???

 

[lawsoncl]

I thought about rebuilding mine since it had about 1.5 mm of side-side slop, but at $112 with the 5% discount and shipping both ways at RockAuto, it simply wasn't worth my time. The remanf Cardone part number 27-7560 was what I used and is supposed to be the slightly quicker ratio.

To me the, Autozone lifetime warranty is useless if it's a pain in the butt to replace. I'd rather spend the extra money and not have to dork with it again.

 

[cruiser54]

Use a used one.

Seems nobody can rebuild a steering box anymore.

94 to 98 ZJs have the quicker ratio BTW.

 

[CarbonXJ]

I agree, go used - or drop the benajmins for a new PSC.

I've had an Autozone Cardone, which was trash immediately with 3" of play.
Two Lares boxes, one came with stripped high pressure threads, the other with a horrible input shaft leak. They do stand behind their warranty though; nice company.
Two RedHead boxes, one currently in the Jeep, that have both developed 1-2" of play over a 6 month time frame. They also stand behind their warranty.
There is also a BlueTop manufacturing that has come around recently.

I'm in the process of building up a decent Dana30/WJ hybrid and swapping to high steer, and will hopefully have enough for a PSC box as well. Used is still the best way to find a decent box though.

 

[old_man]

Pretty much the only rebuilder out there anymore is Cardone. They supply boxes to everybody; Autozone, O'rielys, Advanced, NAPA.....

I used to port and rebuild boxes and have done over a hundred. I quit because it got down to only one company making the replacement seals and they were crap. I am a PIA perfectionist. I replaced ALL the bearings and seals and polished the shafts, and I was running a 50% failure rate. I developed a mod for the boxes to double up on the seals but I would have had to charge $200 or more for each box.

I was running out of cores and bought four reman'd from Advanced to port, thinking it would be an easy process. None of the boxes even had the right number of balls in them and as far as alternating the two different sizes, it was purely random what balls were used. You might get 20% small and the rest of them (never the right number) the large.

PM me if you are interested. I may have a box or two left.

 

[trippled]

Pretty much the only rebuilder out there anymore is Cardone. They supply boxes to everybody; Autozone, O'rielys, Advanced, NAPA.....

I used to port and rebuild boxes and have done over a hundred. I quit because it got down to only one company making the replacement seals and they were crap. I am a PIA perfectionist. I replaced ALL the bearings and seals and polished the shafts, and I was running a 50% failure rate. I developed a mod for the boxes to double up on the seals but I would have had to charge $200 or more for each box.

I was running out of cores and bought four reman'd from Advanced to port, thinking it would be an easy process. None of the boxes even had the right number of balls in them and as far as alternating the two different sizes, it was purely random what balls were used. You might get 20% small and the rest of them (never the right number) the large.

PM me if you are interested. I may have a box or two left.

What kits were you using? I used I gates rebuild kit when I did mine about a year ago. It's been working flawlessly. Rebuilding it was really not that hard if you take your time. I'd trust my attempt over any cardone box out there.

 

[Ecomike]

If Cardone is the only rebuilder left, why would a rock auto Cardone be better than Autozones? Could Cardone be following different specs for rebuilding for different customers?

Two sizes... balls(?), so it did not matter what size they used, confused on what you said????? Why were there two different sizes???

Porting???

How hard is it just to change the seals and output shaft bushing (or is it a ball bearing, or both?)..... Mine works fine, just has side to side play in it that I found while trying to find out why I have metal on metal noise up front doing (IIRC) a sharp left sharp turn only after backing out of a parking spot, that sounds like a loose steering part or a loose caliper bolt. My gear box leaked almost right away 4 years out of the AZ box, but adding Lucas PS sealer solved the leak problem 98%.

Pretty much the only rebuilder out there anymore is Cardone. They supply boxes to everybody; Autozone, O'reilys, Advanced, NAPA.....

I used to port and rebuild boxes and have done over a hundred. I quit because it got down to only one company making the replacement seals and they were crap. I am a PIA perfectionist. I replaced ALL the bearings and seals and polished the shafts, and I was running a 50% failure rate. I developed a mod for the boxes to double up on the seals but I would have had to charge $200 or more for each box.

I was running out of cores and bought four reman'd from Advanced to port, thinking it would be an easy process. None of the boxes even had the right number of balls in them and as far as alternating the two different sizes, it was purely random what balls were used. You might get 20% small and the rest of them (never the right number) the large.

PM me if you are interested. I may have a box or two left.

 

[Ecomike]

What kits were you using? I used I gates rebuild kit when I did mine about a year ago. It's been working flawlessly. Rebuilding it was really not that hard if you take your time. I'd trust my attempt over any cardone box out there.

Got a link for the gates kit, part number? Did you change the output bearing/sleeve too? Is there an online break down, repair manual on this box?

The renix box is different from the 91-01 box is it not?

 

[Ecomike]

How does one know if a used one is good short of swapping it out????? I can not do this more than once again, due my health issues. Is the 94-98 ZJ box a direct swap with no mods?

Use a used one.

Seems nobody can rebuild a steering box anymore.

94 to 98 ZJs have the quicker ratio BTW.

 

[old_man]

If Cardone is the only rebuilder left, why would a rock auto Cardone be better than Autozones? Could Cardone be following different specs for rebuilding for different customers?

Two sizes... balls(?), so it did not matter what size they used, confused on what you said????? Why were there two different sizes???

Porting???

How hard is it just to change the seals and output shaft bushing (or is it a ball bearing, or both?)..... Mine works fine, just has side to side play in it that I found while trying to find out why I have metal on metal noise up front doing (IIRC) a sharp left sharp turn only after backing out of a parking spot, that sounds like a loose steering part or a loose caliper bolt. My gear box leaked almost right away 4 years out of the AZ box, but adding Lucas PS sealer solved the leak problem 98%.

There are two different sizes of balls used in the recirculating ball screw. They differ by only a half a thousandths. You need to alternate them. The smaller ones act as spacers and cut down the drag and wear in the system. I also ported all the boxes I built so that in the future you could go to a hydro assist system if you want.

In most cases, the reason the output pitman arm shaft starts to leak is that the bearing gets worn and allows a wobbling movement, wearing out an old hard seal. It can also be caused by the wear and tear on the box causing the gearing lash to loosen up. In a rebuild, this is fixed during the adjustment phase. This and worn bearings are what causes a dead spot in the steering. You can change only the seal, but odds are that it will be a short term fix at best.

I used to use the Gates kits as a starter, but even they went to the same crappy seals. The newer non-Renix era boxes are made more cheaply and only have one output shaft seal, whereas the Renix era boxes have two. I mod the newer boxes to accept two seals. Only the Renix era kits come with the output shaft bearing, but it is a cheap version without the flange. I purchase an OEM type roller bearing separately.

Even with experience, all the custom tools and a dedicated bench, it takes a minimum of four hours to tear down the box, glass bead everything to get rid of all the rust and corrosion, polish the shafts, degrease everything, paint the box, assemble, and adjust everything.

 

[md21722]

How does one know if a used one is good short of swapping it out????? I can not do this more than once again, due my health issues. Is the 94-98 ZJ box a direct swap with no mods?

It's an acquired feel and best done without the hydraulic lines attached as they will greatly skew the results. The FSM details the procedure. If you try to adjust the box with it in the vehicle, the #1 rule is to remember tightening too much is worse than leaving it loose. If too tight, it can bind and then you lose steering and wreck.

 

[Ecomike]

What FSM am I looking for? It is a Saginaw gear box, not jeep, right?

It's an acquired feel and best done without the hydraulic lines attached as they will greatly skew the results. The FSM details the procedure. If you try to adjust the box with it in the vehicle, the #1 rule is to remember tightening too much is worse than leaving it loose. If too tight, it can bind and then you lose steering and wreck.

 

[Ecomike]

I see 4 brands to pick from, AC Delco has a lifetime warranty, not a lot of difference in price if I keep the core.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...242cid+l6,1179716,steering,steering+gear,7416

I did some digging, and I do not have time to fiddle with rebuilding one right now, need to deal with the massive Harvey flood damage the rest of the year. Still on week 3 now (thanks to Harvey) replacing a well rusted leaf spring on the other rig. I have a video to share of the wobble in manual mode. Lets see if this link works? You may need to download the video first for it to run properly. I am still trying to decide if it is bad enough to even worry about yet????

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=VERUTzFkbGw1WFA0Y3pNTFc4eUliR0YzVk1yTElR

There are two different sizes of balls used in the recirculating ball screw. They differ by only a half a thousandths. You need to alternate them. The smaller ones act as spacers and cut down the drag and wear in the system. I also ported all the boxes I built so that in the future you could go to a hydro assist system if you want.

In most cases, the reason the output pitman arm shaft starts to leak is that the bearing gets worn and allows a wobbling movement, wearing out an old hard seal. It can also be caused by the wear and tear on the box causing the gearing lash to loosen up. In a rebuild, this is fixed during the adjustment phase. This and worn bearings are what causes a dead spot in the steering. You can change only the seal, but odds are that it will be a short term fix at best.

I used to use the Gates kits as a starter, but even they went to the same crappy seals. The newer non-Renix era boxes are made more cheaply and only have one output shaft seal, whereas the Renix era boxes have two. I mod the newer boxes to accept two seals. Only the Renix era kits come with the output shaft bearing, but it is a cheap version without the flange. I purchase an OEM type roller bearing separately.

Even with experience, all the custom tools and a dedicated bench, it takes a minimum of four hours to tear down the box, glass bead everything to get rid of all the rust and corrosion, polish the shafts, degrease everything, paint the box, assemble, and adjust everything.

 

[old_man]

Definitely a toasted bearing. I have seen quite a few boxes that also where stressed to the point that the point where the bearing mount is actually stretched out and a new bearing does not work. Yours looks borderline.

 

[Ecomike]

Interesting that the seal is not leaking at that location yet (0or not since I added Lucas stop leak). I had some serious death wobble and several bad front end parts earlier this year, could they have damaged it, or is this just normal wear? I had the current slop top side on the steering wheel since I replaced it about 8,000 miles and 5 years ago, so I suspect it has been that bad since I got it from AZone. I had just never checked the output seal / bearing area for this issue before.

Wondering which brand to trust from rock auto....Thinking I might spend the bucks for AC Delco????

Thanks for checking the video and the reply.

Definitely a toasted bearing. I have seen quite a few boxes that also where stressed to the point that the point where the bearing mount is actually stretched out and a new bearing does not work. Yours looks borderline.

 

[old_man]

There should be zero slop in the shaft. I am not sure about the AC Delco but every reman I have see in the last 5 years has been via one route or another, from Cardone.

 

[Ecomike]

How does one tell the difference between the Renix two seal output and the newer one seal output steering gear box? I'd like to use the newer style for the core and hang onto the older style for a possible rebuild someday. But I have no idea how tell which ones i have might be the old Renix style box, if any??? What are the clues to look for?

Thanks. I found a solid looking one in stock at AZ, I plan to try. Seems I used one from AZ in 2005 and then got a warranty swap in 2011, so I have gotten about 6 years out the last 2. Can't pass the free thing one more time, I inspected this one top to bottom. It looks solid. But I need to decide which code to return.

There should be zero slop in the shaft. I am not sure about the AC Delco but every reman I have see in the last 5 years has been via one route or another, from Cardone.

 

[old_man]

Telling someone is hard. The difference is in how far down inside the snout of the box the snap ring resides. The old boxes are in my opinion far superior. They have the snap ring closer to the edge (not as far down inside). Most newer boxes had a large rubber plug like dirt seal, whereas the older boxes didn't. Reman's don't normally come with the dust plug/seal.

 

[trippled]

Every ac delco reman power steering part I've used is a cardone box with an ac delco sticker.

 

[Green Mesa XJ]

Explains the poor AC Delco steering gear ratings.


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