rebuttle to no traction and unseated coils...lol

[in4aride]

more proof traction and stability are still had with an unseated coil...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr8hp1-phzs&feature=relmfu

This get an LOLZ from me.
If any of you have driven that trail. (yella, jd, led, jacobs?) you know how undercut the section is where the driver front was. HAd the axle not drooped so far it wouldnt have been sucked into the undercut so bad and prolly wouldnt have done the axle grind (1:27). At that point the rear is really pushing the front end up. The front left tire did NOT pull that jeep up coffin rock. Sorry. Yes droop is cool. But I have yet to see anything impressive at all what so ever about unseating the coils and using big tires......especially on the Spring Creek video. Had we stacked rocks too (lastara) I could drove that shit on short arms and limited travel on 35's. But we said eff it and decided not to stack rocks and pave the trail like seen above....

:dunno:

I side with FrankZ for sure on this one.

 

[1-tonxj]

Boggers + Colorado = ?

Just adding to the fire lol

I know...lol...next set of shoes will be 43 sx ...the boggers will be getting hit hard with a groover and run at 3psi this year ...they really do suck , but hey they looked cool...lol

 

[1-tonxj]

This get an LOLZ from me.
If any of you have driven that trail. (yella, jd, led, jacobs?) you know how undercut the section is where the driver front was. HAd the axle not drooped so far it wouldnt have been sucked into the undercut so bad and prolly wouldnt have done the axle grind (1:27). At that point the rear is really pushing the front end up. The front left tire did NOT pull that jeep up coffin rock. Sorry. Yes droop is cool. But I have yet to see anything impressive at all what so ever about unseating the coils and using big tires......especially on the Spring Creek video. Had we stacked rocks too (lastara) I could drove that shit on short arms and limited travel on 35's. But we said eff it and decided not to stack rocks and pave the trail like seen above....

:dunno:

I side with FrankZ for sure on this one.

I drove right around those stacked rocks every attempt, but a crawl speed with the 2.72 gearing and 5.13's just would not allow it you can hear the converter load up and tires hardly move... all I hear from you is talk and an excuse as to why you did not make it anywhere near that line ...you can clearly see I never used the rock stackers rocks , and clearly hear them state I keep driving around them ...So what's your point with the stacked rocks since my final line was clearly not using them ,and without the flex I'd tip over on that line or atleast be real close ,but nope one arm sitting on window and 1 hand driving .

And I'm doing all my driving on ungrooved un broke in Boggers at 12 psi...and you ?

 

[1-tonxj]

I'm with JD, I think building for greater droop than compression is the right way to go, in that it helps to maintain a low COG, which is vital. I know Frank agrees -- but, while droop is generally a good thing, like all things, you can have too much. Will too much make your rig not work? I guess not, as long as you can retain your springs -- having to replace coils that fall out is kinda dumb. But you certainly are getting a very minimal amount of traction assistance from a wheel that is only bearing the weight of the axle and perhaps some down pressure from the opposite wheel.

Personally I think keeping the rig in balance is more important than giant droop/RTI numbers, and if you are minimizing uptravel, then overdoing the droop makes balance difficult, and you'll end up teetertottering over everything.

I'm not sure my rig falls into excessive dropp since I run a typical 16 travel shock with 5.5 up travel and 10.5 down ...rears are only 10 travels in stock-ish location .

 

[1-tonxj]

I stack a lot less rocks when I run that trail on my 35"s, lol. But for what it's worth I agree with you to a point, droop can't hurt, and I find that my long travel helps me a lot, even when it's just I sprung weight on the down side of the axle, it still helps maybe just a little but often that little bit is all you need.

I've always thought that it'd be cool to add some kinda devise to keep the coils in place even when they go past the bump stop and wanna fall right out( a problem I've had offer, ask Lopez) but I really don't think it would help anything except that it looks cool to have all that "flex"! Honestly though I think it's better to let the wheelin do the talkin! Unless your wanting to build a mall crawler or a ramp rig! Which really doesn't impress me, or most people that actually know
How to wheel a jeep!

You seen me stacking zero rocks...lol... And as clearly seen in the video I did not use the land bridge of stacked rocks on the final line , and as commented on by one very diligent stacker in the video ...he keeps driving around my rocks...lol...so yes rocks got stacked ...but in the end they were not used ... Please demonstrate with video your superior offroad driving skills ...oh you have none ...ouch...So I guess when I get my jeep back in a cvouple weeks you will be eagerly wanting to go on a run to teach me your offroad'n skill-z...I accept a friendly run of show-n prove with a great day of wheeling the trail as opposed to web wheeling and false bravado ...

 

[in4aride]

Hahaha. Ya Im makin excuses about a line. Hahaha. THAT is some funny shit. Point being. Those big asstires and your unsealed coils haven't driven shit impressive. I was on 35's and dinky stock axles and ran same trails.
You mad bro? You seem mad.

Wheel what you want to wheel. You sound like a person who keeps going up in tire size instead of learning how to drive. Or maybe that's just how i see it.

 

[DutchVDub]

I personally don't see how an un-seated spring and therefore unsupported axle/chassis really do you any good. In a reality there wouldn't be much of a difference if you just limit strapped it and floated the tire in the same spot. Leafsprung rigs do it all the time. The advantage of a lot of drop is negated when that drooped out tire isn't actually supporting the rig. Just my opinion/observation.

 

[xj-grin]

I'm not sure my rig falls into excessive dropp since I run a typical 16 travel shock with 5.5 up travel and 10.5 down ...rears are only 10 travels in stock-ish location .

So WTF is the point of your thread? So you can unseat a coil and still get through a trail -- If'n any of my boys would deliver on the nillas they keep promising me, I'd give you a cookie. And where are you from? You may have CO as a location now, but your holier-than-thou attitude is screaming that you aren't from around here -- maybe emoticons aren't conveying your actual intent, but so far the words "arrogant prick" are jumping out of your posts.

Just my 2 cents, wheel what you want, enjoy it and crow about if it blows your skirt up. :cheers:

 

[in4aride]

Win.
/thread.
That deserves a box of nillas

 

[1-tonxj]

Hahaha. Ya Im makin excuses about a line. Hahaha. THAT is some funny shit. Point being. Those big asstires and your unsealed coils haven't driven shit impressive. I was on 35's and dinky stock axles and ran same trails.
You mad bro? You seem mad.

Wheel what you want to wheel. You sound like a person who keeps going up in tire size instead of learning how to drive. Or maybe that's just how i see it.

35's on a d30/35 probably have same ground cleartance as 39.5's and a 60/14 ...but still no video of you running same lines on that trail ...yes same trail...same lines with success ..NO...and you cramming your jeep in-between a set of rocks that it will not fit through without caving in the pillars is not impressive or skilled , as anyone willing to cave in the pillars could run same obstacle ... This is friendly internet bantar I don't get mad over this stuff , but I will argue it all day loooooooong my friend ( wrong or rite)...lol

 

[1-tonxj]

So WTF is the point of your thread? So you can unseat a coil and still get through a trail -- If'n any of my boys would deliver on the nillas they keep promising me, I'd give you a cookie. And where are you from? You may have CO as a location now, but your holier-than-thou attitude is screaming that you aren't from around here -- maybe emoticons aren't conveying your actual intent, but so far the words "arrogant prick" are jumping out of your posts.

Just my 2 cents, wheel what you want, enjoy it and crow about if it blows your skirt up. :cheers:

LOL...I live in bailey ,CO...I'm from upstate N.Y. ...I'm just B-sing really having no anger or real purpouse just b's-ing . the net always gets me intouble , But the same conversation in person is perceived completely different than on here ...no hard feelings or anger on this end , but i do enjoy a good debate ...lol

 

[in4aride]

But i thought your uber flex made you mad dope yo.

Why did you're gangster ass rig get its butt kicked on the same line of rock pile lil jeep like my old rig walk up?

Oh. That's right. Cuz i try lines you don't see as reasonable its super easy cuz Im reckless. How could i forget. :doh:

Can you please explain how droop helped you on coffin rock? Im interested in your rebuttal to that?

 

[1-tonxj]

Win.
/thread.
That deserves a box of nillas

thin mints or nothing else ...

 

[1-tonxj]

But i thought your uber flex made you mad dope yo.

Why did you're gangster ass rig get its butt kicked on the same line of rock pile lil jeep like my old rig walk up?

Oh. That's right. Cuz i try lines you don't see as reasonable its super easy cuz Im reckless. How could i forget. :doh:

Can you please explain how droop helped you on coffin rock? Im interested in your rebuttal to that?

in rock garden past obstacle 3 my bro was driving and was not running his driver side high enough up hill side on driver side ,so he kept hanging his pumpkin and LCA bracket on driver side...I did line him out later having him drive tire on tree and right up it went since it got the rear axle pumpkin and LCA bracket up high enough to clear the rocks which is what stopped it with his line ...also 90 inch wide rig just barely fits far enough to left to get axle up enough to clear rocks cresting over without driving on the tree ( what's left of it) ...narrow rig and 35's on stock axles would fit that obstacles line easier...i would need 44's to have same axle clearance as a d35 on 35's ...No rig is perfect for every trail...obstacle...or line...and you know of course there are lines narrow and 35's will not do ... I did make every obstacle on CMG ...you know the ledges you could not make :explosion

 

[in4aride]

D35?? Who ran that. Were we watching same video of patriot? Driver tire was down the whole time...pass tire was up on ledge. :dunno:

I did make.ledges after i went to longer wheelbase.
Next........

 

[1-tonxj]

D35?? Who ran that. Were we watching same video of patriot? Driver tire was down the whole time...pass tire was up on ledge. :dunno:

I did make.ledges after i went to longer wheelbase.
Next........

not my Jeep at Indi...just basicly identical build but running TSL's ... and possibly looks a few inches shorter on WB ...So you made it after a strectch ...hmmm...So one set up does not work for everything...huh...And yet it seems you will argue that the one set up you're running is ...IT... every set up favors different lines , and no one set up works for every obstacle/ line ...


what i like about the droop is most times for me it keeps the jeep from bobbing up/down at the corner where the wheel would lift without the droop , And I've not had issues with hanging up due to the droop , But i'm sure there are times where it would be better to carry the tire , but then again times where it's better to not get unstable by becomming a teeter totter lifting tires ...My solution is simply and adjustable limit strap and trapped coils .

 

[in4aride]

Im not arguing one setup. Are you're eyes ok? You don't seem to read well.

Look at the reasoning i posted droop hurt that rig at coffin rock. And prove it wrong. Show me how droop helped. I pointed out blatant issues with too much droop there. And you ignored it. Prove it wrong.
Im definitely building this new jeep. Then we can go play follow the leader. A rig that is constantly unseating.coils vs one.that doesn't. Droop works when.there is weight to for traction. A spinning tire with no weight might as well spin in the air. Droop all you want. Run longer softer coils so there is always tension. Whatever. Just don't try to outsmart physics. This isn't an.argument of opinion. Its science. Physics-science. Im pretty sure you're gonna lose..

 

[1-tonxj]

Im not arguing one setup. Are you're eyes ok? You don't seem to read well.

Look at the reasoning i posted droop hurt that rig at coffin rock. And prove it wrong. Show me how droop helped. I pointed out blatant issues with too much droop there. And you ignored it. Prove it wrong.
Im definitely building this new jeep. Then we can go play follow the leader.

so that's 1-obstacle and one line....you are arguing 1 set up with 1 scenario ,and also assuming limiting the travel would have made it winner , but have no proof since you have no idea what difference limiting that rigs droop would have produced positive or negative...or no difference ...obviously a rig without that flex would have been playing the role of teeter totter on the line he did take between the ledge/boulder ...


Now Build your rig ...And if it performs sweetly I'll take notes and use what I learn upgrading on my Jeep .

 

[1-tonxj]

Im not arguing one setup. Are you're eyes ok? You don't seem to read well.

Look at the reasoning i posted droop hurt that rig at coffin rock. And prove it wrong. Show me how droop helped. I pointed out blatant issues with too much droop there. And you ignored it. Prove it wrong.
Im definitely building this new jeep. Then we can go play follow the leader. A rig that is constantly unseating.coils vs one.that doesn't. Droop works when.there is weight to for traction. A spinning tire with no weight might as well spin in the air. Droop all you want. Run longer softer coils so there is always tension. Whatever. Just don't try to outsmart physics. This isn't an.argument of opinion. Its science. Physics-science. Im pretty sure you're gonna lose..

so that's 1-obstacle and one line....you are arguing 1 set up with 1 scenario ,and also assuming limiting the travel would have made it winner , but have no proof since you have no idea what difference limiting that rigs droop would have produced positive or negative...or no difference ...obviously a rig without that flex would have been playing the role of teeter totter on the line he did take between the ledge/boulder ...I'm also not sure where it's though no weight is these tires...I can deadlift 600lbs and yet between my friend and I we can not pull up one of these tires , So i'd estimate since he is around same strengh that their is atleast 1000lb of down force on that tire...not exactly nothing ....total axle weight of a stock full dress 60 is 550lbs obviousy there is a fair amount of extra weight hanging off my built 60 and estimating those parts we arrive at around 900lbs then you add in a pair of tires/wheels weighing 140lbs per tire/wheel , which places us just about 1300lbs ...so i'd say without putting a scale under the dropped tire that there is weight on it...Which just gave me an thought ,which is to simply weigh the tire of dropped axle side limited vs not limited and see the difference ...I'm certain a difference exists obviously since the coil is unloaded ,but i'm willing to bet a good amount of weight is stil on it .

 

[rockclimber]

I disagree that an unseated coil provides no traction.

however, thinking that traction is the only issue is dumb.

99% of the time that coil is unseated the rig will be more unstable than if the coil was seated and the axle was strapped appropriately.

here is a hint: if you are running into problems with stability, address the amount of travel you have in the rear.

running 16" of frt travel and 10" of rear travel is nonsense. get some more travel out of the rear, strap your front and your jeep will be more capable.