RE HD TB Bracket movement?

[Nay]

I'd like to blame it on thin air...but...

This is what I found looking for some info on trackbar mount braces. I've always planned one and was getting around to it. This was last August from The Goat, when he had fatigued the metal so badly on his OEM mount that it kept snapping. There are other parts of the thread that suggest the brace transferred the forces to the mount itself.

The whole subject of track bar and steering box braces is far from being resolved. My goal is to make the whole structure as rigid as possible, but it will still flex. I've cracked the frame with and without braces, so don't have any definitive conclusions. I was surprised that the mount fatigued and cracked like it did with the brace, which leads me to believe that the design of the brace somehow contributed to the cracking. Unfortunately, it also cracked before the brace went on, so again, nothing conclusive.

I am going to change the design of the next brace. I think I'll use a rod end on the mount side and a poly bushing on the frame side, rather than making it all rigid like the last one was. This should allow some movement without increasing the stress to the track bar mount. I'm also running a steering box brace, and have a plate added to the inside of the frame, but have no firm opinion on that either. I did see a new crack in the outside of the frame next to the top steering box bolt, so the bumper needs to come off and and some additional repairs made to the outside of the frame. Sort of hard to do now, since my cage structure ties into the bumper from under the fenders.........

My memory ain't that bad yet :loveu: . Bracing the mount directly to the opposite frame rail may not be what you want to do, especially to cure what is an inherently loose mount. I like the idea of simply adding a crossmember that attaches in the frame area near the mount and then beefing up the frame around the mount. Or just beef up the frame near the mount and let 'er flex.

But then I don't understand the need for these aftermarket mounts. A heim with high misalignment spacers can operate just fine in the stock postion unless you have some really extreme travel (it doesn't need to be a swingarm with johnny joints). I have about 7" of shock downtravel in my setup, I use regular spacers, and the heim has lasted for years. Buying a bracket that doesn't stay tight so you can run a johnny joint swingarm and have to weld a brace to it...maybe I'm missing something here?

Nay

 

[XJEEPER]

"Unfortunately, it also cracked before the brace went on, so again, nothing conclusive."

Goat's rig has too many variables to form a hypothesis. He's flexed his uni-body to extremes on a regular basis before his chassis was made rigid with the cage and bracing. My point is this, don't blame the part as the cause without proof.

I don't think running a dropped trackbar mount is a good idea anyway, which is why I designed my trackbar mount to operate at stock parameters. If the RE TB mount drops the trackbar, then it also increases leverage to the uni-frame.

 

[Safari Ary]

I'm on my second heim in a year and a half, so either I'm doing something wrong or you've found some indestructable f-ing heims. I'm running the RE 1600 tracbar and their supplied heims. I've thought about plating the frame rail at the steering box to eliminate that problem and then building a tracbar brace to the other frame rail with small RE superflex joints at each end(to allow the frame to flex in different directions, but not expand and contract sideways). I want to run a center limiting strap for my longarms anyway, so this will double as a mounting point for that. I was planning to run the HD RE bracket, and just turn the heim 90* so that the heim isn't constantly being misaligned. Maybe I'll just make up a bracket, bolt it on, and then weld it in a few places too.

Just my thoughts and blabberings....

Ary

 

[Kejtar]

Wow Somehow I didn't get the notifications till now and I see that we have a heated discussion going on In any case, I'm not 100% sure, but I think that the problem came out recently. It's related to a noise that I'm chasing down for the past 3 weeks or so. In any case, my current plan of attack is to wait till Sat, take of the trackbar, take of the bracket, examine the frame rail, put the bracket back on and the trackbar and see what happens. Also while at it, I will look into making a brace for it.

 

[Nay]

"Unfortunately, it also cracked before the brace went on, so again, nothing conclusive."

Goat's rig has too many variables to form a hypothesis. He's flexed his uni-body to extremes on a regular basis before his chassis was made rigid with the cage and bracing. My point is this, don't blame the part as the cause without proof.

I don't think running a dropped trackbar mount is a good idea anyway, which is why I designed my trackbar mount to operate at stock parameters. If the RE TB mount drops the trackbar, then it also increases leverage to the uni-frame.

None of this is definitive - these are cautionary tales that deserve some consideration before whipping out the welder and going to town under the assumption that all is cured. In as much as we can't blame the part without proof, we shouldn't recommend solutions without a long-term view of the potential side effects.

A brace that is required purely to stabilize a part that is not working properly is troubling to me. The stock bracket doesn't have these looseness issues - what is it about the aftermarket brackets that causes these problems? Does a brace cure those problems or transfer them elsewhere?

Still, it is interesting that this group generally believes a steering box brace can be dertrimental but doesn't have the same view of the trackbar brace. They perform the exact same function on very similar frame mount elements (a leverage point that bolts into the frame and hangs several inches below it).

I doubt any of this is critical for the average XJ'er...but I'd like to see some more empirical data on the best way to approach this problem.

I do have super heims, BTW. Three reasons: 1) I live in the dry Southwest; 2) I use the highest quality heims (bearing to race fit and teflon bonding quality); and 3) I have a very slow, weeping leak in my transmission cooler lines that keeps them perpetually lubricated without ever causing a tranny fluid level problem . The downside of this is that this leak is destroying my steering TRE's. Time to go back to heims all around.

Nay

 

[xj-grin]

I do have super heims, BTW. Three reasons: 1) I live in the dry Southwest; 2) I use the highest quality heims (bearing to race fit and teflon bonding quality); and 3) I have a very slow, weeping leak in my transmission cooler lines that keeps them perpetually lubricated without ever causing a tranny fluid level problem . The downside of this is that this leak is destroying my steering TRE's. Time to go back to heims all around.

Nay

Slightly off topic/hijack -- Nay, where do you get these "super heims"? I am about to replace mine from my RE1600 (3 years before it started popping!) and if I can upgrade I will... TIA

 

[ZachMan]

I've heard great things about the JKS tracbar w/ stock mount.

 

[Nay]

Slightly off topic/hijack -- Nay, where do you get these "super heims"? I am about to replace mine from my RE1600 (3 years before it started popping!) and if I can upgrade I will... TIA

I mostly use Aurora Bearing, which at one point I sourced from a local distributor. RE sells QA1 (or at least they used to), and they have a good rep. However, the top three brands last time I looked into it were Aurora, FK, and NHBB. You can get them from a lot of online racing shops (I think Summit Racing sells all three brands).

The big deal, IMHO, is where you live. Conditions don't change much here. It is always dry from a humidity perspective, there is little rain, no mud. So not much need to seal and grease the joint, which is what johnny joints give you. Probably in a more variable environment you'd like the johnny joints better for daily driver. I like heims because they are simple and have been more durable for my usage than TRE's. No reason for the complexity of johnny joints unless environmental conditions are limiting heim life noticeably.

If you had a problem with QA1 joints, I doubt the other brands would make too much of a difference. Johnny joints are probably a better choice.

Nay

 

[Kejtar]

Interesting point, but I don't recall as many (ever?) people complaining of cracks around the bracket mount vs the steering box mount.
In a way I think the force distribution is different as the steering box is actually performing work and exerting the force while the trackbar mount is there to hold the axle in position and has more "play" on the movement of mechanism as it shifts the body over the axle while the steering box is doing it's work by trying to shift tires via linkage (rods? or whatever is the proper word) against resistance of surface area and obstacles on the tires.

None of this is definitive - these are cautionary tales that deserve some consideration before whipping out the welder and going to town under the assumption that all is cured. In as much as we can't blame the part without proof, we shouldn't recommend solutions without a long-term view of the potential side effects.

A brace that is required purely to stabilize a part that is not working properly is troubling to me. The stock bracket doesn't have these looseness issues - what is it about the aftermarket brackets that causes these problems? Does a brace cure those problems or transfer them elsewhere?

Still, it is interesting that this group generally believes a steering box brace can be dertrimental but doesn't have the same view of the trackbar brace. They perform the exact same function on very similar frame mount elements (a leverage point that bolts into the frame and hangs several inches below it).

I doubt any of this is critical for the average XJ'er...but I'd like to see some more empirical data on the best way to approach this problem.

I do have super heims, BTW. Three reasons: 1) I live in the dry Southwest; 2) I use the highest quality heims (bearing to race fit and teflon bonding quality); and 3) I have a very slow, weeping leak in my transmission cooler lines that keeps them perpetually lubricated without ever causing a tranny fluid level problem . The downside of this is that this leak is destroying my steering TRE's. Time to go back to heims all around.

Nay

 

[Joe]

This has sold me on the idea Actually do you have any pics of your brace?? What did you use and how did you mount it?

I have a brace still waiting to install send me your e-mail address and I'll take some pictures of it.

Joe

 

[Kejtar]

I have a brace still waiting to install send me your e-mail address and I'll take some pictures of it.

Joe

Cool, thanks, send them to [email protected]

 

[Nay]

Interesting point, but I don't recall as many (ever?) people complaining of cracks around the bracket mount vs the steering box mount.
In a way I think the force distribution is different as the steering box is actually performing work and exerting the force while the trackbar mount is there to hold the axle in position and has more "play" on the movement of mechanism as it shifts the body over the axle while the steering box is doing it's work by trying to shift tires via linkage (rods? or whatever is the proper word) against resistance of surface area and obstacles on the tires.

I agree. But we do debate on whether beefing up the frame around the box with ORGS/C-Rok plates is a better idea than steering braces, because a brace may actually force the box and it's mount to handle the stress of frame flex from the opposite side. Same concept with the trackbar - if the opposite side framerail wants to flex, and you have attached a rigid brace to the trackbar mount...that mount and its attachment point are what is resisting those flex forces.

Hey, maybe the RE brace is perfect idea. We know that bracket is loose...so you brace it to the other frame rail for better onroad stiffness, but offroad it allows some movement so you aren't creating too rigid of a system. Perfect :woohoo: .

Nay

 

[AzRick]

Just my .02

I have the RE HD trackbar mount.

I ran a steering box brace AND a trackbar brace for about three or four years. During this time I wheeled nearly every weekend in the rocks on 4.0 and above trails.

I recently stripped the jeep down to the unibody for disposal and found that while I had a few ugly cracks around the transmission hump and a couple other places, there were NO cracks in the framerail around either the steering box or the trackbar mount.

I'm building another XJ for the rocks, and it will have the same setup.

Rick

 

[Joe]

Kejtar,

I just sent you the pictures of the trackbar hopefully you got them if not let me know.

Joe :thumbup:

 

[Kejtar]

Kejtar,

I just sent you the pictures of the trackbar hopefully you got them if not let me know.

Joe :thumbup:

Thank you kindly

 

[Joe]

Kejtar,

I just sent you the pictures of the trackbar hopefully you got them if not let me know.

Joe :thumbup:

If those pictures didn't work this should work.

RE Trackbar Brace Pictures and misc. as well

Joe